Dealing with the French Market

[franglaisaccounts]

Hi

I'm based in France so have much more french/international type clients than Brits. I was just wondering who else does business regularly in France and how you find it?

Initially I was quite shocked by the laid back way peeps seem to operate, and the mood swings (blazing arguments then all smiles 2 minutes later!), and coffee breaks etc but after 4 years have found my feet at last!

The admin/paper work over here is much heavier than UK requirements and business costs generally much higher. It's quite interesting to see the differences between UK and French products available and see the market gaps over here that need filling.

Just after your experiences if anyone has any to share?

Rachel

 

[La Belle]

Hi Rachel
We are in a slightly different situation in that our clients are British, but we are currently based in France.
We have adjusted to the Provencal habit of doing everything at 2 miles an hour, and everything shutting for at least 1 1/2 hours for lunch, no Sunday (and sometimes monday) opening and the famous shoulder shrug when things go wrong. What we havent been able to adjust to is the dreadfully huge and inept burocracy which has dogged us since we arrived! It has cost an absolute fortune just to exist in a business sense, and now in our second year we are seriously considering winding up the company in France and going back to operating from the UK.
Actually we could have done with knowing that you existed when we arrived - we have had not particularly good service from our English accountant in France so far!
What have you noticed particularly, in terms of gaps in the market over here in France which need filling?
Cheers George

 

[Calibre Designs]

They are a friendly bunch of people! I love Paris but have only been for business. I travel there at least 8 times a year. Only 45mins away CDG by easyjet or 2.5hrs via Euro tunnel.

They work very hard during the working hours but strict on home time. Great social people and they take you to very nice places to have lunch. Very particular with food and wine.

Gaps in the market in France? Can't really say as I have only ever been to Paris. They dominate in cosmetics and perfume.

 

[Fuzzy]

Fuzzy just moved back from France and found it shocking how they operate some of their business, Notair and Estate Agents to name just two.......it's amazing some of them are still in business. Loved the way of life but couldn't get over how laid back everything was.

 

[dagr]

I've been here too long to give a fresh appraisal of France/UK differences. I have noticed how the UK has become a bit more "European" over the last few years though.

 

[creacom]

Hi Rachel,

I lived and worked in France for 5 years and my business partner is French so between us we have brought quite a fair bit of work from the French market. About once every 3-4 months she nips back and does a series of networking event with the "Young chamber of commerce" over there.

I find that our French clients are very relaxed ( too much so ) about the whole thing. The other main difference is with the briefs. UK clients fill in our questionnaire with a lot of detail and supply a great brief to work with. Getting info out out of the French is like drawing blood from a stone !

Jacqui

 

[BeautyScientist]

Gaps in the market in France? Can't really say as I have only ever been to Paris. They dominate in cosmetics and perfume.

I have a plan to take a range of cosmetic products (well skincare strictly) I have developed to France. It is a bit of a Quixotic plan as there are already far more brands on the French market than in the UK. It really is their special area of expertise.

My plan is not remotely sophisticated. I aim to visit local pharmacies one at a time and try to persuade the pharmicist to stock the products.

If anyone who knows France well would like to rate my sanity on a scale of 1 to 10 I would be grateful for the feedback.

 

[franglaisaccounts]

Hi All

Really interesting to read your comments : same as what I've found essentially. From a business sense, this country is not very start-up friendly (cost and bureaucracy wise), and getting anything done takes 100 times more effort than back home in the UK. I'm still mystified as to how the banks operate - their charges are abominal and they are all disconnected from other branches of the same chain. And yes estate agencies and notaires have ridiculously high charges (6% & 7% respectively) too.

As for gaps in the french market, from my 4 years experience in Lyon, the 2nd largest city in France with a thriving expat community, I have noticed a few extras which could be brought in. Not saying that these would all necessarily work, but I definately think customers would exist for each:

*Indoor kids entertainment, such as the big soft play centres sprouting up over the UK. The majority of parents who take young children to McDonalds do so because this is one of the very few places which offer a soft play area to children. The frenchies are very health concious and generally dont approve of giving their kids McDonalds food!

*Learning English through play/music/theatre etc. I was involved in a creation of an English Immersion centre, which immediately took off. The need for learning english early is now recognised and some parents want their children as young as 2yrs old to begin. Ie different ways of teaching english I think are marketable.

*Food & Drink. Okay so the French are pros at this, but still I think that there is space in the market for more international concepts. Starbucks works amazingly well in Paris now. A couple of months ago the first Starbucks opened in Lyon with roaring success too. I think this particular franchise has lots of potential in other vibrant french cities, along with other concepts such as Wetherspoons perhaps? Traditional English afternoon tea and brunch type products seem to go down well here too. M&S used to operate in France but the clothes section was a complete failure. However, for years after it closed down many people told me that they missed buying english food goods from there.

Sorry Im waffling!!!!!

To the Beauty Scientist, nice idea expanding your business to France but to be very honest, I think you could find it a bit tricky getting going. People work a lot here through networking so if you dont have any/many initial connections to make sales to then even with great persuation tactics I cant see many pharmacies accepting to take on your products. There is a LOT of competition and specialised skincare type shops. Perhaps plan yourself a trip over and test the market before committing yourself.

PS To La belle - given the choice between operating as a UK or France company, I would defiantely chose the UK option for the ease of paperwork and mainly to save money.

As a life choice though, business aside, France is a great place to live!

Rachel

 

[dagr]

*Indoor kids entertainment, such as the big soft play centres sprouting up over the UK. The majority of parents who take young children to McDonalds do so because this is one of the very few places which offer a soft play area to children. The frenchies are very health concious and generally dont approve of giving their kids McDonalds food!

There are a few of these in Paris. When they were younger, we used to take our kids to one in the 15th arr. - rue Lumet or Lomet.

*Learning English through play/music/theatre etc. I was involved in a creation of an English Immersion centre, which immediately took off. The need for learning english early is now recognised and some parents want their children as young as 2yrs old to begin. Ie different ways of teaching english I think are marketable.

These exist in a small measure too, although the main activity seems to be focused around English-speaking ex-pats, like the Message group.

 

[franglaisaccounts]

Hi David

Thanks for your reply.

I think Paris has more options available than the rest of France with regards to the items mentioned above. As I've often heard said, Paris and France are 2 separate countries!

A bientot

Rachel

 

[Provenancewines]

Setting up a business is a nightmare in France because of all the reasons mentioned above (red tape, etc...) Some of my friends who have tried have unfortunately failed or delayed because of it and are amazed that it took me less time, cost and paperwork to get up and running. It is failing at encouraging young entrepreneurs to achieve their dreams. I am originally from Bordeaux and do business with France. As a wine importer, my business takes me to regular visits to beautiful small vineyards and that's the one aspect I would not change in my job!

 

[Interconnect IT]

I've done business in France... several times too. But as a British business.

In terms of work though - it was hard. I didn't get this slow pace thing at all! But my clients were the Minisitry of Finance and NEC who are probably both at the trickier end of the scale!

But they do suffer from a lack of independent workers. Which is great, because if you are you can do very well.