Customer wants to cancel before delivery

[scm5436]

We send all goods by courier, which costs about £5.00

However, if the goods are returned we also get charged an extra £5.00 for delivery back to us, plus £7.00 admins fee. So a non-delivered item sets us back approx £17.

So we have a customer (consumer) who has suddenly decided they want to cancel their order after dispatch, but before delivery.

We could tell them they have to accept delivery and then return it at their own expense, but what happens if they refuse the delivery?

Can we 'force' them to accept the (re)delivery, and if they don't then refuse to accept the cancellation? (ie. "well if you're not going to accept delivery that's your problem, but you're not getting a refund, so it will sit in our warehouse until you want to pay us to send it again")

Is that allowed? Or, more specifically, are they allowed to cancel before delivery?

I notice in the new consumer rules it says that the cancellation period starts the day after receipt of the goods, so presumably they can't cancel until the cancellation period starts, and that won't start until they accept delivery...? and therefore if they refuse delivery they have no right to cancel...

We're not deliberately trying to be awkward here, if they want to accept delivery and send it back (at their expense) for a refund fine. But we're not happy about losing £17 in delivery charges because they're dicking us around...

 

[Paul Norman]

You cannot force them to do anything. Whereas our sympathies are all with you, the rules are not. You have to soak up the cost and do some deep breathing. It is one of the on-costs of being involved in Ecommerce and you have to make sure your margins, overall, are enough to cover a percentage of returns which will, usually, cost you money. Especially as often on receiving the goods back you cannot resell them.

 

[scm5436]

You say the rules are not with us. Can you be more specific? Like which rules? Which part of the regulations say the customer can cancel before receipt?

 

[antp__]

I personally wouldn't absorb any cost yet. Explain to the customer that their order has already been dispatched and is due delivery. As they have now notified you they wish to cancel, they may return the item back to you in its same condition within 30 days for a full refund.

Unless it is eBay. An eBay customer will simply say it is not as described, damaged or whatever to make sure they don't pay returns postage.

 

[antropy]

"The Distance Selling Regulations state that your right to cancel an order starts the moment you place your order and doesn’t end until seven working days from the day after you receive your goods."

"What should you get back?
The original cost of the outbound postage to you should always be refunded by the seller.

The seller's terms and conditions or returns policy should state who pays the cost of returning the item.

If they don't state this, then the seller has to cover the cost.

In this case, you're entitled to a refund of the total amount you paid, including costs to ship the item to you, and the fee to return the item. No admin or restocking fees should be charged."

Looks like an adjustment to your terms could make sure you only lose £5 each time, which isn't great but better than £17!

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations

 

[scm5436]

ok, but the DSR was replaced by the "The Consumer Contracts Regulations" back in 2014, so the DSR is irrelevant.

However, previously when I said that the cancellation period started the day after receipt, that was written in the governments 'implementation guidelines' document. However, I've now found the actual "The Consumer Contracts Regulations" document, which states that the cancelation period starts at the beginning of the contract. So that excuse is out.

However, it does say:

35(2) If it is not the traders responsibility under paragraph (1) to collect the goods, the consumer must -
a) Send them back
b) Hand them over to the trader or a person authorised by the trader to receive them​

So, if the customer cancels the order they must send the goods back, which implies that they must receive the goods first.

Additionally, it also says,

35(5) The consumer must bear the direct costs of returning the goods under paragraph (2)
​

So, even if you argued that refusing the goods was effectively the same as returning the goods, we could charge the customer for that cost (ie. £7+£5).

But as suggested, at this stage we have politely informed that customer that they can indeed return the goods for a full refund, and to let us know when they receive the goods so we can provide return instructions.

Just useful to know what our options are if they refuse to accept delivery... ;-)

 

[Bill1954]

You don't really have any, and is the risk of a bad review on the review sites worth £17 to your business?

 

[scm5436]

You don't really have any

Why do people insist on keep making statements like that, without backing them up in anyway? Is that just your opinion?

 

[AndyP]

Seriously, you need to suck this up and move on. It happens. If you work in ecommerce it's part and parcel of doing business and keeping a good reputation. Yes, it's irritating of course but it's also only 17 quid. The world won't stop turning and if it does then I guess it's fair to say that you are probably in the wrong business.. Take a deep breath, cancel the delivery, refund your customer, consider changing your courier, grab a sandwich and think it's only a few more hours until the bank holiday weekend is with us. Even the sun is shining. Honestly though, you really should look at the slightly bigger picture and have a sensible conversation with your courier as just about everything is liquid these days.

 

[Bill1954]

Born out of bitter experience my friend. The customer has a right to cancel at any time up to 14 days after receiving an item. We have had the situation quite a few times over the years and we just had to suck it up. The DSR's and now the CCR's allow the customer certain rights, they also allow a certain breed to take libertys

 

[GraemeL]

There is a key point that is confusing in the wording. When the words 'cancel an order' are used in the DSR they actually mean 'cancel your order or return the items ordered'.

If a customer cancels an order before despatch, no problem easy to do, no charges for anyone.

If a customer cancels at a time after the point of despatch (not receipt), then it becomes a return, provided you state that in your conditions. Charges as per what you publish.

When we despatch an order, an email is sent that states "As the despatch process has now begun, we regret that it is no longer possible to amend or to cancel your order."

We have tested this with Trading Standards (We are a Buy With Confidence approved business, so they vet our T&C's) and all okay. We make the distinction clear in our T&C. It is a very important point for us just the freight for a return can cost £20.

However, you still have a commercial decision to make if your customer disagrees with you.

 

[Paul Norman]

The reality is, the customer, in a case like this, can do what they wish. And it is not worth fighting, because you will not win.

The customer has a right to cancel. That is enshrined in law. Saying that they 'have to' pay for return postage in this situation is pointless, because they don't. Why? Because you cannot make them do so.

 

[Paul Norman]

Why do people insist on keep making statements like that, without backing them up in anyway? Is that just your opinion?

It is, of course, an opinion. But one that is based on reality.

You can demand that the customer pays you. They can refuse. Your only course then is legal action, which would be bizarre for this sum of money.

The consumer has the power here in part because of legislation, but mostly because of the practical reality of the situation. You can ask nicely for the to pay, but they can, and often will, refuse.

These opinions are based, from most of us, on many years of actual E commerce experience.

 

[TMGG]

Just tell them the item has already been dispatched and once it is delivered they can post it back for a refund. They might even keep it.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

By refusing delivery they are in effect returning the item to you.

 

[antp__]

@scm5436 how did this go or is the item still out for delivery?

 

[HazelC]

They should have 14 days in which they can cancel from placing order and then another 14 days on receipt of delivery - recommended you create a terms and conditions that protect you from this.