Customer refusing to pay full amount

[kingarthur]

Hi everyone

I am new to the forum and have joined due to an issue that I have had recently with a client that was referred to me.

I have been producing design layouts for him over the past couple of months. Initally he said that he wanted it based upon the look of a particular site, the link of which he provided in an email. Naturally I created the layout and made various amendments at his request.

He then looked at another website and said that he liked that and as such I informed him that I would have to start another mockup because of the change of direction and that as such he would be charged due to the amount of time that had already been assigned to the task and the brief changing. I also politely and professionally advised him in a phone conversation that he needed to avoid looking at so many websites because he would never settle on one look or idea and it would delay the launch of the website considerably.

Eventually after much tweaking and development, a result was arrived at and he said he was delighted with it. In fact he has been consistently happy with the work being produced throughout the design cycle.

I met with him several weeks ago upon his request to discuss how the content pages will be designed. At that point he asked me what he owed so far and I told him what the figure was (£575) due to the amount of hours spent designing and redesigning his home page. He showed no issue with that and part paid me £300 for the work that had been carried out. He asked me how much the cost for the content pages would be and I told him that they would be around £300 due to the variety of pages that he had within his site. From that point onwards I created the layouts for the content pages, sending them to him via email for his approval. He was happy and urged me to send them to the coder, which I did approximately two weeks ago.

Earlier this week he contacted me and said that the design was too dark, and requested that I change the colour scheme and the feel to follow ANOTHER site at he had seen. I warned him that 1) the layouts had been agreed and were already being coded and 2) due to the drastic difference in feel he would require a complete redesign, which the coder also agreed with. It is in essence asking an interior designer to create a look for a room in a house, call the plasterers, decorators and fitters in only then to be told that I want the room to have an all new look.

I asked him during the latter part of last week where to send the invoice to, he requested the final amount and then replied very rudely stating that he would only pay me half. His reasonings were that I ignored his requests, that the job was only worth £600 in total as opposed to the figure encroaching on £900 (remember he has already paid £300) as he had worked with other designers before and rather bizarrely that he thought the work I had produced was RUBBISH! He even entertained the idea of taking me to a small claims court and that he was only going pay me the amount that HE FELT was right because "I was a nice fella". I have a good reputation as a hard working designer amongst friends and peers and often get work via recommendation.

From the outset he agreed via email my hourly rate. I have numerous emails stating his satisfaction with the work, even informing the coder of his delight which was passed on to me. All of the mockups and layouts produced are on file and I have been polite and courteous and despite his claims of my ignorance, made the alterations that he has asked countless times. If he disagreed on a whether a design element worked or not for him I gave my opinion and vice versa. We moved on with the design process and he got the result that HE wanted and agreed to.

What should I do in this instance? The option is either just settle with what he wants to offer me and be done with it or pursue the matter legally. He owes me approximately £600 which is a more than fair amount for the hours that I have put in. I even generously said to him that there are many hours I have NOT accounted for and other costs such as stock photography, travel etc

 

[Paul Norman]

Candidly?

Walk away. This guy, based on what you say, is going to be impossible to please, and you will end up loosing money on the job. You do not want to end up in court.

I would personally politely decline to continue with the work.

 

[kingarthur]

Well I can either take the £300 or chase him for the full amount. My role in the project was effectively complete when I handed over the layouts to the coder.

I'm not losing anything financially right now as he doesn't want me to do any work on the project and quite frankly I do not wish to work with client who I suspect. He's blatantly trying to refuse payment due to his own lack of direction and altering the brief, which I am not responsible for despite my polite courteous recommendation of the financial and timeline implications it would have on his project.

This is the first time that I have encountered such a dilemma so I am trying to discover the best way to move forwards in these circumstances.

 

[Williams lester]

Take the £300, you will spend hours of potentially productive time otherwise filing in court forms, appearing at a hearing etc etc. Take the £300 on offer and move on.

 

[Paul Norman]

Take the £300, you will spend hours of potentially productive time otherwise filing in court forms, appearing at a hearing etc etc. Take the £300 on offer and move on.

Seriously, this is the best option, and the only one not involving tears.

 

[Wild Goose]

Option 1
Take the second £300 instalment or whatever he is offering as a "final payment". Make the acceptance verbally, and do not email any confirmation that you are willing to accept that amount, or sign anything to that effect.After the cheque clears, take him to a small claims court for the remaining £300. For reasons as to why you can do that, google D&C Builders v Rees. It's to do with the fact that he will have given you no new "consideration" for the £300 discount that he is trying to award himself.

Option 2
Take the second £300 instalment or whatever he is offering and put it down to experience. If it makes you feel better, get a wax candle and write something rude on his windscreen.

You're not alone in having clients like this - we all get them. Having been once-bitten you'll learn to spot those customers a mile off - I won't do a thing for any such suspects unless I have a signed purchase order to wave at the small claims court if necessary. Your purchase order should say just what you will do for the agreed price, so that any changes by the customer lead to an additional purchase order (a "change-order") signed before the job resumes.

Oh, and if you try to look big about this and keep a smile on your face your errant customer might just be mug enough to come back to you one day for changes to his website. Then you can obtain a purchase order, a large advance deposit, and have great fun screwing up his site. Google Phil Spector and a song called "The Hustle" - it has to be the worst song of all time - which he recorded to fulfil a contract after he had been cr*pped on.

 

[bluejayway]

"as he had worked with other designers before and rather bizarrely that he thought the work I had produced was RUBBISH!"

If I had a pound etc. This guy thinks he's being really clever doesn't he? He'll award himself major points for his smarty brains. Unfortunately it's such a tired old script, being delighted, getting the work out of you then suddenly deciding it's rubbish. Which means of course he won't want to use it will he?
I had a classic example some years ago. The client asked me where I had got all the wrong info in the text (answer: from you dumbo) and then wanted to report me to a professional body for my terrible work. Then hey-ho, the brochure is printed and he'd changed half a sentence.
So let's be clear. This is a scam. Your 'client' may have got the idea from the internet (there are pages describing how to get work for free) or out of his own lager-addled head, but bottom line is, he is trying it on. So how to deal with it.
First, become immune to the 'your work is crap' line. Creatives have always been vulnerable to this one because standards are subjective. This made it a favourite with dodgy clients in the past, but now there is usually a paper trail in the form of emails.
Second, you don't have to decide whether to go to law yet. First stage is a stiff email or letter pointing out that he hired you for your professional services in the same way he might hire a lawyer. If he doesn't like the outcome, that's irrelevant. If his expertise was equal to yours he could have done the job himself. QED. Next you point out that your work is copyright. You are refusing him permission to use it until he pays the bill. Although you realise this is a technicality because he hates it so much (LOL). Give him seven days to pay in full or you will resort to law.
Then go and have a chat with a friendly lawyer - lots of them will provide initial advice for free and some even do it over the phone. You may find it is worth going to the small claims court yourself.
I would bet you don't get the full amount out of him but that he offers a compromise. Don't forget he has obviously done this before.
Finally, you might like to think about changing your rates or looking for a different kind of client. I get a lot less of this kind of thing now I charge more.
What we are looking for as creatives, I'm sure you agree, is to do the best for clients and charge a fair price. This works better when we get respect for what we do.
Usual caveat: copywriter, this is not legal advice blah.

 

[Geoff T]

my advice - take the £300... not worth the agg as previously stated...

ALSO - don't err on the side of nice in future... when charging, include expenses - et al - always (it's easier to decrease a bill, than increase one...)

 

[kingarthur]

Thanks for all of your suggestions so far. I really need to mull over the best solution during the next couple of days.

This is my first real personal experience of a bad client so it is important to do the right thing, learn from this episode and move on.

It has also alerted me to how important contracts, terms and conditions, sign off forms and possibly deposits are in the future.

 

[cmcp]

Take a deposit upfront, and get pre-paid on completion of each milestone.

 

Don't agree this guy is trying to cheat you.end off.

I would pursue the matter on principle as I don't like blatent theft.

seems you have enough e-mails e.t.c to support a legal action (not sure if you would be awarded legal costs.?)



Earl

 

[patientlady]

Take the £300 and spend no more time on this guy. Get on with your next project and put in down to experience, most people are not like this ...... Might be worth having some sort of agreement in future as you seem to have done everything asked. The guy obviously has too much time on his hands to keep changing his mind.
Is there such a thing as a self destruct button after going live!

 

[stugster]

I would pursue the matter too. If you walk away, you're doing yourself out of the money you've rightfully earned.

Draw up a letter explaining the detailed communications you've had between him and yourself, what was agreed, and the prices as agreed. Send this to him via recorded delivery and request that payment be submitted in full AS AGREED.

Time and time again I see designers getting the short straw because clients are tw*ts.

One designer I work with has just finished a big piece of work on a site for a client and the client is not paying. Just on Friday there the client requested the web site FTP access details... that's when you know he's never going to pay.

You've done the work, as agreed. You should be paid. End of.

 

[MH1]

Take a deposit upfront, and get pre-paid on completion of each milestone.

I would agree with this, plus why if in business are you doing things for free such as providing stock photography etc, if you do not value your time and work, why would your clients?

I would go to small claims if suitable, as mentioned a quick conversation with a solicitor would help a lot on a future course of action.

Your client knows you would not wish to go to court, then again ask yourself if he would either, I always mention my insurance pays all court and legal fees to clients, and suprisingly they do not have similar cover so they tend to pay promptly.

I must see if such insurance is available one day.

 

[kingarthur]

I am going to send the guy an invoice for the work carried out during the period that I worked on the designs and make it clear that during that time I have email evidence confirming his satisfaction, just in case he feels like arguing about it (I've since printed all email communications as evidence). Once it was handed over to the developer on 'x' date my involvement was complete.

I've also broken down my invoice to include 'x' amendment(s) was/were carried out according to email dated 'xx/xx/xxxx', stated the agreed rate as per email dated 'xx/xx/xxxx' and added in the terms and conditions that I retain copyright and ownership of the work carried out until full payment is received as a safeguard.

 

[Lloyd Morgan Productions]

I think youve done the right thing. Unfortunately there are people out there who are going to try and get out of paying, and for small businesses these people can cause a lot of trouble and stress.

Its tricky making the decision whether to get full payment before handing over the product or service you are providing, or showing trust in clients, and sending an invoice on completion and hoping they will pay.

Hope things are resolved to your satisfaction, good luck.

 

[SillyJokes]

You mentioned a coder. Is this person a family member ofthe client or a third party professional like yourself?

If hte latter, it might not be a bad idea to have an informal chat with them too because if he does this to you, then the coder is likely next on the list.

 

[patientlady]

Hi kingarthur
I wondered how you were getting on with payment

 

[termsandconditions]

...

This is my first real personal experience of a bad client so it is important to do the right thing, learn from this episode and move on.

It has also alerted me to how important contracts, terms and conditions, sign off forms and possibly deposits are in the future.

You are right. A lot of our design services clients agree that written terms together with staged payments as the job progresses is the way forward for large jobs.

Raising spurious disputes to avoid payment is one of the main reasons we see behind late payment/ non payment of our clients' invoices.

But prevention is better than cure and your first line of defence against such recalcitrant debtors is to get the agreement down in writing and get it signed by your clients. You can then use your terms to limit the impact of the excuses that debtors use through a carefully worded Time Limit for Defects/ Disputes clause. And it's also possible to structure your terms and client documentation to account for significant variations in the job that clients want and that are outside the scope of the original project.

And if you still get issues, make sure your terms indemnify you against collection costs or legal costs if your invoices are in default. This way, you can get a collection agency legally to chase your debtors for free!

Best Regards

 

[kingarthur]

Hi everyone

Apologies for not replying sooner as I have been away for a few days.

I thought that it would be best to play it business-like and (as I should be) and send out and invoice detailing the work done, the date and rate that was agreed per hour. A covering letter was also attached stating the period that the works were carried out and during that period everything was done to satisfaction (remember I have consistent written evidence of this). It was to the point, professional and in no way incendiary.

Here is the reply I received a couple of days ago:

"A couple of things that need to be addressed here [my name] on closure between us.

The only reason I signed your work off was to end a very non productive relationship asap. Your work isn't satisfactory to what my wishes where and you refused at many many junctures to heed my advice. You declared you where confident enough and thought you knew best. Well [my name] you didn't i'm afraid ,a simple colour change request on two occasions where to much to ask and not to mention the slide show that was the focal point of our very first conversation. Everytime we spoke on the phone we ended up with a 40 Minute / 1 hour phone call convincing me of your designer prowess thats lead us to this point.

Hence I'm only willing to pay u £300.00 more for very unsatisfactory work on visuals that look totally unreflective of anything i'd like to project.
All in all, with you and [the coder] i'll be £750.00 out of Pocket and I have an awful Website that i never wanna see again and the home page in particular looks an absolute mess.

Refusal to take the £300.00 payment and generate closure in the sorry saga is leaving a very bitter taste. Your refusal to look within and accept your short comings over many weeks to produce something of acceptable inspirational Graphical Design quality that you feel your hourly rate warrants is unrealistic. However I'm still willing to pay what I feel reflects the amount of money this work is worth, which is still more than some would do."

As you can imagine I was pretty dumbfounded and angered by this reply by this considering that despite his claims I DID many, if not all of the alterations that he asked for and that one of the items in particular. Putting it simply if I hadn't made any of the alterations, he would have said sooner and given that communications were either daily or every other day. At NO point did he state that he was dissatisfied with the project and I advised him verbally in the context of one of our phone conversations (in the earlier stages of the project) that the inclusion of slide show feature he mentions, could be implemented later on during the development stage due to his eagerness at that point to get the site up and running.

The coder in question is employed by a large London agency with a blue chip portfolio, who has a good reputation as a freelancer (he often has to turn projects away) and is actually embarrassed at how this has turned out simply because he did not, like I, feel that the client discussed would cause this issue. The coder informed me that I had absolutely fulfilled the brief provided.

It should also be noted that the coder provided examples of my work to the client so that he could see the level of work that I can produce. As a designer I tend to be modest about my abilities despite being told that I consistently produce high quality work. Thus the comment suggesting that I was bragging to him about my "prowess" is somewhat ludicrous and massively inaccurate.

I am not in this job to produce shoddy work otherwise a) I would not be recommended by peers and customers, b) would not be doing this as a career, as I have done for many years and c) I am not actively seeking a bad reputation by producing substandard work and d) wouldn't have a job!

At present I am considering accepting the offer and then perhaps seeking further advice. It's not that I want to by any means but if I don't then I will not be getting paid at all, although I think that this is part of a bully tactic. The only "short comings" that he mentions seem to be his own inability to decide what he actually wanted.

 

[stugster]

You're going to get this all the time mate. There are clients out there who think that by belittling your work, they'll get a massive knock-down price at the end of the project.

The whole point of signing off the work is to create evidential points along the process that the client is satisfied with what has been done up to that point. If he was being honest about this situation, he would have expressed his concerns before signing the work off; or as most people would do, refuse to sign off the work altogether.

I would explain to him that as agreed, the prices stand and that he should consider making full payment as soon as possible.

I used to pussy-foot around clients, trying for months to get the money I was owed from them. One quick letter from a solicitor warning them of impending action against them in court usually does the trick; if not, the papers do.

I also hear a lot of people disturbed about taking legal action and they're worried the client will fall out with them. Ask yourself, do you really want this person as a client if they're not paying?

 

[kingarthur]

Ask yourself, do you really want this person as a client if they're not paying?

Absolutely not. The impression that I am getting more and more is that his ego seems to be the issue here by trying to force me into accepting the sum he's offering or get nothing at all.

 

[MH1]

Agree with Stugster, get the ball rolling and stick with your agreed terms, all the rest is aimed at trying to divert you away from the fact he owes you money, go get it.

 

[stugster]

Absolutely not.

Then proceed through the necessary channels to get your debts settled

Use it as a learning experience if nothing else.