Creating a brand

[weddingphotojournalist]

Hello, I'm interested in creating more of a brand for my services. Do you think branding is important for a service business (I'm a wedding photographer).

I also wonder how you go about defining a brand for my sort of business, hopefully I do that to some extent on my website and blog. How do you go about really developing your brand.

For example take Apple, to me their brand is cool, technology, advanced, easy to use software and computers/phones. I'm not sure how they actually give out this perceived message about their brand but it's to do with their advertising, the way Steve Jobs introduces new products, the presentation in their shops and the products. Apple have created such a strong brand that they can sell millions of products within weeks of launch.

I want my brand to say exclusive, upmarket, fantastic quality, great customer service, luxury.

 

[Be Known PR]

Firstly, love your pix - those are what your brand should be built around.

Well, that and the 'USP' you push which is the story telling style of photography as this helps to set you apart from the more traditional wedding photographer.

You say things such as wanting to be seen as upmarket, luxury and exclusive, yet your website states prices from just £1,600. Personally I don't think the two sit together. I appreciate that this is probably for your most basic package, but it contradicts the exclusivity.

I would remove the word journalist - the majority of the public do not trust journalists (I should add that I have nothing against them....most of the time...some of my best friends are journalists...phew). I get what you are trying to portray but think something like magazine photography may say it better. You are giving your clients the OK/Hello stroy treatment.

I also think you need to take away the focus on your location. You are avaiable to all UK locations, so keep it generic.

Finally, your reputation should drive your brand. You need to build your reputation in the right circles and make a name for yourself as hot property. There is no point in having a strong brand and message if nobody knows about it.

 

[Be Known PR]

I should add that you should play on the 'celeb' weddings you have done. For a bride to boast to her friends that she has the same photographer as Rob Bryden etc is a huge plus point for you. THAT gives you 'exclusivity'.

 

[Arsh4d]

Big Brands are built on trust, efficiency, character and vision.

Illustrate through your advertising all these points.
All your marketing and advertising should go hand in hand.

You need to get outhere and promote the service, get to wedding events, speak to event planners, give discounted rates to build the client base.

Remember a good brand sells itself, get to the stage where people talk about you, word of mouth advertising.

And enjoy the experience of building your brand, just like you want your customers to enjoy the service you provide.

 

[weddingphotojournalist]

Great replies, thank you very much.

 

[Kernowman]

Branding in a nutshell is projecting outwards to your market the abilities and aptitudes of what you actually do, matched closely to yours and their aspirations.

Sounds simple doesn't it? I have seen so many branding tactics that yell out "We are the best" but you HAVE to be the best before you shout about it, otherwise it comes back and bites you on the arse, trust me.

In your business, testimonials are everything and they have to be perfect, otherwise again it directly conflicts with this notion of you being the best.

Think long and hard about this, because one slip up will cost you dearly.

 

[akirk]

And Apple's brand is not based on their marketing at all
It is based on their products which are simple / intuitive / powerful / sexy / etc.

There is no point at all in building a brand with a discrepancy between it and the product - get the product right, get the networking right and the brand will acheive what you want....

You could do with some work with customers looking at your perception of your brand and their perception - is there a difference...?

Alasdair

 

[S-Marketing]

And Apple's brand is not based on their marketing at all
It is based on their products which are simple / intuitive / powerful / sexy / etc.

There is no point at all in building a brand with a discrepancy between it and the product - get the product right, get the networking right and the brand will acheive what you want....

You could do with some work with customers looking at your perception of your brand and their perception - is there a difference...?

Alasdair

A brand that isn't based on marketing? You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

 

[Kernowman]

I want my brand to say exclusive, upmarket, fantastic quality, great customer service, luxury.

Well young sir, the website as is it says none of those things at all.

I'm on 512k DSL and it took nearly 2 minutes to load those pictures. The word "photojournalist" sounds far too pretentious and no doubt fine as the pictures obviously are from a PHOTOGRAPHER'S point of view, I lost interest before they had fully loaded. Knowing that I have slow broadband, I clicked on the "dial up" button and another dose of slow drudge waiting for the page to load faced me. However, I would not begin to touch the website issues unless and until you have done that long hard think about this "image" thing, then formulate the Marketing around what you aspire to aligned with how you intend to get there.

Tough love is a b*tch sometimes, but it gets results - fast.

 

[weddingphotojournalist]

Thanks Kernowman

Are you sure you are getting 512k download? I only have 1Mb broadband and my site loads in a few seconds (after clearing the cache), even on my iphone using 3G I can get my blog or html site up within about 30 seconds. Has anyone else noticed slow loading times? The images on the flash website have all been optimised for the web and aren't big file sizes and I haven't used any music to keep the loading time as quick as possible. I'm very interested to know if anyone else had a problem with it loading, it certainly shouldn't take more than a few seconds.

Wedding Photojournalism is actually a proper word used by a number of photographers around the world, An American called Dennis Reggie (he did the Kennedy weddings) supposedly invented the phrase about 20 years ago. I use the term wedding photojournalist as I am actually qualified as a photojournalist by the NUJ and have a background of magazine and newspaper photography.

 

[weddingphotojournalist]

My business is by no means new or unsuccessful, I have been doing this for ten years and was listed as one of the top ten UK wedding photographers.

What I'm trying to do now is build up a brand image that appeals to the clients I target, these are generally women (who book me) aged 28 to 35, who don't want a photographer that will take over the day but can come up with great photographs showing the love and emotion of their wedding.

I have had some great media exposure in the past, The Independent on Sunday magazine did a double page feature on me a few years back and a number of wedding magazines have featured my work. This isn't enough though, building a brand seems to take a lot of effort.

 

[akirk]

A brand that isn't based on marketing? You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

We may have to disagree

I have seen too many companies who have spent a lot of money on 'brand' and 'marketing' without considering what their product / service says...

So, my point, (which perhaps should have been explained a bit more ), is simply that brand always ultimately goes back to being based on the product - the marketing only supports / enhances / illustrates / brings to life the brand value of the product, but without that brand value being at the core of the product you can make the surface brand / marketing what-ever you want but it will never fully give the company that brand - yes, it will on the surface but as soon as you drill deeper it will fall to pieces...

so with Apple - if the products weere not what they are then their brand would be totally different what-ever the marketeers did...

hence my comment about brand being based on product



therefore - coming back to the original poster - I believe that the need is to get the brand thoughts into the product first - then support it with marketing...

the photos are great, but I think that the next step is to look at the client / potential client's perception - if that target market of mid 20s to mid 30s is wanting a particular feel / style of photography - is that what they are getting? If there is a match between expectation and product then it is simply a matter of ensuring that everything follows from that - from packaging to leaflets / correspondence / contact / etc.

Alasdair

 

[Kernowman]

Thanks Kernowman

Are you sure you are getting 512k download? I only have 1Mb broadband and my site loads in a few seconds (after clearing the cache), even on my iphone using 3G I can get my blog or html site up within about 30 seconds. Has anyone else noticed slow loading times? The images on the flash website have all been optimised for the web and aren't big file sizes and I haven't used any music to keep the loading time as quick as possible. I'm very interested to know if anyone else had a problem with it loading, it certainly shouldn't take more than a few seconds.

Wedding Photojournalism is actually a proper word used by a number of photographers around the world, An American called Dennis Reggie (he did the Kennedy weddings) supposedly invented the phrase about 20 years ago. I use the term wedding photojournalist as I am actually qualified as a photojournalist by the NUJ and have a background of magazine and newspaper photography.

Well if you don't want my 30-odd years of marketing experience then kindly say so and I won't poke my nose in further I am not being conceited or arrogant about your response, but I did say "tough love is a b*itch sometimes".

Visited your site again and it took 38 seconds after clearing the cache. Bear in mind I am sited near an exchange that time forgot out in the boondocks of Cornwall. That's not immediately important or worth arguing over, that is until your next big money paying assignment lives out in the . . . . . . . .

It wouldn't be QUITE so bad if you had some content to browse through while the images are loading up. And that is my single biggest complaint about your home page - it doesn't capture me at all on any level, so if I wasn't going there now to critique your website and having to wait awhile for a purpose, but would a prospect, or look down the next one on the Google listing? You can blow your nose on your lofty "branding" aspirations when your prospects have gone elsewhere. There is nothing on there that convinces me I have arrived with the one single photographer who will match all that I need from one and the "photojournalist" word simply tells me I am probably not worthy of this man's high ambitions anyway.

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less if the Marx Brothers had invented the word "photojournalism" and it is not your job to "educate" me or anyone else about that. Your one and only job is to compel me to get in touch with you by phone, by email, by smoke signals, a message in a bottle if needs be, because you take THE best (wedding) photos, you can do exactly as instructed, you will give me your best advice and it won't cost me my right arm and left leg for the privilege. That is the beginning, middle and end of your entire website's function and the "branding" will follow in good time with some great copywriting, which you must first live up to.

Building a brand needs a particular mindset, so begin with that and you will get your branding, but do the basics first. Trust me.

 

[S-Marketing]

We may have to disagree

I have seen too many companies who have spent a lot of money on 'brand' and 'marketing' without considering what their product / service says...

So, my point, (which perhaps should have been explained a bit more ), is simply that brand always ultimately goes back to being based on the product - the marketing only supports / enhances / illustrates / brings to life the brand value of the product, but without that brand value being at the core of the product you can make the surface brand / marketing what-ever you want but it will never fully give the company that brand - yes, it will on the surface but as soon as you drill deeper it will fall to pieces...

so with Apple - if the products weere not what they are then their brand would be totally different what-ever the marketeers did...

hence my comment about brand being based on product



therefore - coming back to the original poster - I believe that the need is to get the brand thoughts into the product first - then support it with marketing...

the photos are great, but I think that the next step is to look at the client / potential client's perception - if that target market of mid 20s to mid 30s is wanting a particular feel / style of photography - is that what they are getting? If there is a match between expectation and product then it is simply a matter of ensuring that everything follows from that - from packaging to leaflets / correspondence / contact / etc.

Alasdair

The reason why the products are what they are is because of marketing.

Marketing includes research into products and markets, research into new products, development of products, product life cycle, customer life cycle, target market selection and just about everything else that you are agrueing, isn't marketing.

Without marketing there would be no products, well actually there would, but they would be rubbish, would not meet the customers needs, and wouldn't sell.

I see your points, but think your opinion is based on the fact that you dont actually know what marketing is.

Perfectly happy to agree to disagree mate, but I just thought i'd try to explain why you are wrong

 

[akirk]

The reason why the products are what they are is because of marketing.

Marketing includes research into products and markets, research into new products, development of products, product life cycle, customer life cycle, target market selection and just about everything else that you are agrueing, isn't marketing.

Without marketing there would be no products, well actually there would, but they would be rubbish, would not meet the customers needs, and wouldn't sell.

I see your points, but think your opinion is based on the fact that you dont actually know what marketing is.

Perfectly happy to agree to disagree mate, but I just thought i'd try to explain why you are wrong

of course not

I see where you are coming from - understanding the market should drive product development in many ways...

but marketing itself does not produce the products on its own - marketing is one small aspect of a business - the business product / service is a result of many things... from technology to creative soul to manufacturing pragmatism to finance decisions (depending on the business), marketing is but one aspect...

quite simply put:

- you can have a business product / service without marketing

- you can not have marketing without a business product / service

therefore marketing does not engender the product - yes it can feed in with a good cycle of review etc. but it can not be the sole progenitor...

and the whole proces of marketing while driving revision etc. is itself sitting on the product - it has to, there is no relevance without the product!

I am sure that we would both agree that the two are linked to each other...

but...

it is a nonsense to believe that brand can be built on marketing alone - because there are plenty of companies who look to 'do marketing' to build a brand and ignore their product - yes you have a particular view of marketing which involves the product - and that is as it should be, but for the majority of companies they see the marketing separately - and my point simply is that the brand (original question which wasn't about marketing per se!) is built on the product, not sitting separately...

if that is not the case then the minute the client gets past the brand / marketing and hits the product the brand will fall to pieces - brand has to be vertical right down into every aspect of the company.

and yes I do know about marketing amongst the many things I have done is work within marketing in a top 30 international company

Alasdair

 

[Kernowman]

of course not

I see where you are coming from - understanding the market should drive product development in many ways...

It is the other way round I'm afraid.

but marketing itself does not produce the products on its own - marketing is one small aspect of a business - the business product / service is a result of many things... from technology to creative soul to manufacturing pragmatism to finance decisions (depending on the business), marketing is but one aspect...

You are way off the mark in every way imaginable!

quite simply put:

- you can have a business product / service without marketing

It will fail, to a greater or lesser degree.

- you can not have marketing without a business product / service

Totally incorrect. The Marketing always precedes that, the variable is the AMOUNT of Marketing.

therefore marketing does not engender the product - yes it can feed in with a good cycle of review etc. but it can not be the sole progenitor...

and the whole proces of marketing while driving revision etc. is itself sitting on the product - it has to, there is no relevance without the product!

Without the chicken, there is NO egg

I am sure that we would both agree that the two are linked to each other...

but...

it is a nonsense to believe that brand can be built on marketing alone - because there are plenty of companies who look to 'do marketing' to build a brand and ignore their product - yes you have a particular view of marketing which involves the product - and that is as it should be, but for the majority of companies they see the marketing separately - and my point simply is that the brand (original question which wasn't about marketing per se!) is built on the product, not sitting separately...

You can have "branding" without the product but you can't have "branding" without the Marketing

if that is not the case then the minute the client gets past the brand / marketing and hits the product the brand will fall to pieces - brand has to be vertical right down into every aspect of the company.

Couldn't agree more Alasdair. Marketing isn't something that ONLY occurs before the product's creation, it is there in parallel throughout the entire life cycle and infuses every aspect of the business process right through to the Invoice being paid. What happens all to often is that the "branding" becomes the be-all and end-all of a business's outward image, but the business never lives up to those expectations, hence dissatisfaction with the background business environment, while the product/price/delivery/quality criteria are fully met for the customer.

and yes I do know about marketing amongst the many things I have done is work within marketing in a top 30 international company

Alasdair

I knew a man who was a plumber for 30 years and he still couldn't fit a ball valve properly. No offence intended Alasdair, but are we talking about the whole Marketing ethos?

 

[S-Marketing]

akirk,

I see where you are coming from, but really cant agree that marketing is a small part of the overall success (partly due to the fact that i'm a marketing consultant)

I find your opinion on the matter interesting, but still think that many of the points you put to me are, to a greater or lesser extent, marketing.

I think marketing does produce the products. It is marketing that tells the boffins what to work on, and the manufacturing departmemts what to make.

One thing I do agree on whole heartedly, is the fact that marketing, in its promotional sense (which I think it what you are talking about) cannot build a brand.

What I am trying to say, is that marketing needs to be used throughout the entire business, in order for it to be enabled successfully to build a brand. A company with lesser products could throw millions at promotional marketing, and still not achieve a viable brand.

Maybe what you are actually saying is that promotional marketing and advertising alone, cannot build a brand?

 

[Kernowman]

My business is by no means new or unsuccessful, I have been doing this for ten years and was listed as one of the top ten UK wedding photographers.

What I'm trying to do now is build up a brand image that appeals to the clients I target, these are generally women (who book me) aged 28 to 35, who don't want a photographer that will take over the day but can come up with great photographs showing the love and emotion of their wedding.

I have had some great media exposure in the past, The Independent on Sunday magazine did a double page feature on me a few years back and a number of wedding magazines have featured my work. This isn't enough though, building a brand seems to take a lot of effort.

Congratulations for coming in the top ten of photographers and from looking at your stunning pictures I have no qualms about the expertise in your craft. I particularly LOVE the way you have captured those personal 'intimate' moments that make a wedding day very special indeed and easily eclipses by a huge margin the "line 'em up and shoot 'em" photos every wedding album in the world contains. There is no problem at all with me on that front whatsoever.

What you cannot see is what others do from the outside looking in and if your future business tack is to create the branding image, then you really do have a long way to go to get there. I could build a terrific branding profile for you in very quick time, but when even the basics are being neglected like they are now, that profile will be entirely counter-productive.

 

[LexyB]

HI, I love the photos too. too bad i am not getting married .
I did not have any problem with the speed of the site at all.If I may give some advices, I would say that the wording to access the site is a bit complicated. Remeber that some people dont understand this vocab. I think there is too much space in between enter the site and the link you offer below. I had to scroll down did not see the links at first. I came back to the home page and scroll down. Maybe you could advertise more on the homepage about the celebrity wedding. What about putting some testimonials from past clients?
About the branding. I am not sure you really need it as an artist. good luck

 

[akirk]

I think that the problem is that the two above posts come from people who are in the marketing world - have a lot of experience and fully understand how it should sit within the whole business...

I don't disagree with you...

but - I come from a place where I advise a lot of businesses and the simple fact is that the majority of businesses:
- do not understand marketing
- consider that marketing is simply advertising / promotional - though most would probably add research to that.
- run their businesses from a perspective which is all about the product / offer / service
- they very much separate the two...

I am not saying that it is right, just that it happens and is very common...

and I am saying that brand needs to be integrated vertically into the company from product through to client first contact

you are rightly saying that this is what marketing is (I don't disagree)
but I am saying that this is not what marketing is within the majority of businesses out there, in those marketing is a few a5 flyers, and a website; brand is a logo

so I think that we are probably agreeing, but where you are coming from the angle of what it should be (and presumably would be with your support and advice), I am coming from the perspective of where most companies are in the absence of marketing experience.

I think that we would both see it as fully integrated - but my original point was that it is not about marketing (in the way seen by most companies - advertising brand / etc.) but should be integrated down into the brand - lets not forget that in this discussion the person asking is not a marketeer - so we need to pitch our answers and describe what we are saying in their terms / the commonly understood terms - not assume that they have the full understanding an expert would have... (or at least - and my mistake - use the more detailed answer and then break it down - as we are now doing...)

and hopefully we are getting to the point where we can agree certain things


- marketing should be integrated throughout
- marketing in the way it is mis-understood by so many businesses (advertising / leaflets / etc.) is not sufficient on its own

but we shouldn't forget that at the heart of a business is a solution to a need / desire - the product, so that is where a company should be focused...

back to the original poster - I believe that to set the brand he wants it needs to start with the photos - yes, you can dress the whole experience up in many ways, but in wedding photography - the photos are what sell the photographer to his next customers, it is the photos which set the brand, it is the photos (product) which drive the whole business... Fantastic websites / great logos / superb wording / etc. all help, but if he is wanting to ensure that his brand is correct for the target market then it starts for his business with the photos...

hope that helps show where I am coming from, I am not being argumentative - just explaining

Alasdair

ref. Chicken & Egg - proved here: http://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume9/v9i4/chicken_egg.html

 

[S-Marketing]

akirk,

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I am looking at it from an 'ideal' situation, where as you are looking at it from a practical, real world perspective.

My opinions have been based on looking at the situation from 'if I were acting on behalf of the business in question', in which case their marketing integration would be near perfect.

Obviously Apples' marketing could be much improved, if I were acting on their behalf, i'm just waiting for the call:redface:

I must say it has been a pleasant change to disagree with someone on the forum, have a constructive debate, thrash out a few details, and end in a position where we seem to agree. Many thanks.

 

[Kernowman]

I think that the problem is that the two above posts come from people who are in the marketing world - have a lot of experience and fully understand how it should sit within the whole business...

I don't disagree with you...

but - I come from a place where I advise a lot of businesses and the simple fact is that the majority of businesses:
- do not understand marketing
- consider that marketing is simply advertising / promotional - though most would probably add research to that.
- run their businesses from a perspective which is all about the product / offer / service
- they very much separate the two...

I am not saying that it is right, just that it happens and is very common...

and I am saying that brand needs to be integrated vertically into the company from product through to client first contact

you are rightly saying that this is what marketing is (I don't disagree)
but I am saying that this is not what marketing is within the majority of businesses out there, in those marketing is a few a5 flyers, and a website; brand is a logo

so I think that we are probably agreeing, but where you are coming from the angle of what it should be (and presumably would be with your support and advice), I am coming from the perspective of where most companies are in the absence of marketing experience.

I think that we would both see it as fully integrated - but my original point was that it is not about marketing (in the way seen by most companies - advertising brand / etc.) but should be integrated down into the brand - lets not forget that in this discussion the person asking is not a marketeer - so we need to pitch our answers and describe what we are saying in their terms / the commonly understood terms - not assume that they have the full understanding an expert would have... (or at least - and my mistake - use the more detailed answer and then break it down - as we are now doing...)

and hopefully we are getting to the point where we can agree certain things


- marketing should be integrated throughout
- marketing in the way it is mis-understood by so many businesses (advertising / leaflets / etc.) is not sufficient on its own

but we shouldn't forget that at the heart of a business is a solution to a need / desire - the product, so that is where a company should be focused...

back to the original poster - I believe that to set the brand he wants it needs to start with the photos - yes, you can dress the whole experience up in many ways, but in wedding photography - the photos are what sell the photographer to his next customers, it is the photos which set the brand, it is the photos (product) which drive the whole business... Fantastic websites / great logos / superb wording / etc. all help, but if he is wanting to ensure that his brand is correct for the target market then it starts for his business with the photos...

hope that helps show where I am coming from, I am not being argumentative - just explaining

Alasdair

ref. Chicken & Egg - proved here: http://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume9/v9i4/chicken_egg.html

No argument at all Aladair, we are all singing from the same hymn sheet after all. Thank you for expressing your point so eloquently

I couldn't agree more that with each passing year the word "Marketing" is being slowly and inexorably *******ised so now we are fast reaching a point where it is either deemed as unnecessary, or being transposed into situations where in reality it does not belong - "telemarketing" being a prime example.

I agree too that the perceptions of Marketing are drawn by what business owners are prepared to throw at their advertising budget. You do indeed get what you pay for, especially with poorly targetted advertising.

I saw an advert today for a "Field Marketing Manager, Experience preferred but not essential as full training can be given" which is the equivalent of saying "We sell fresh milk and cream from Slugs" which in both instances is complete nonsense.

 

[akirk]

Stretchy / Kernowman

thank you - a great debate

it is indeed a pleasure to have reasoned discussions - but it is a good lesson to me to try and remember to explain where I am coming from before making my comments...

Ironically I can come from three places here:
- understanding the marketeers angle
- understanding the average small business view of marketing
- understanding it from the position of a Pro photog. who shot a number of weddings last year (thankfully none this year!)...

and trust me - all three are different

Alasdair

 

[Kernowman]

Stretchy / Kernowman

thank you - a great debate

it is indeed a pleasure to have reasoned discussions - but it is a good lesson to me to try and remember to explain where I am coming from before making my comments...

Ironically I can come from three places here:
- understanding the marketeers angle
- understanding the average small business view of marketing
- understanding it from the position of a Pro photog. who shot a number of weddings last year (thankfully none this year!)...

and trust me - all three are different

Alasdair

Where I come from Alasdair is to make people aware that Marketing is an essential and by all means ignore what it does, but be prepared for the consequences.

The core of my Marketing is based around those four simple words found down there in my signature and I tell people they should be used constantly before making any decision. There are variants around those four words of course, but the variants still maintain the basic philosophy of capturing what someone else thinks from the outside looking in to whatever you are doing.

So, in addition to "How would I feel?" we can add the variant "Would I buy this?" or maybe "Does this offend me?" or "Can I improve this?" and so on and so forth. Now that isn't going to break any bank account that's for sure, so true grass roots Marketing needn't be any financial burden at all, but to some it is a huge intellectual burden which they have real trouble coping with, so it's my job to show that it is painless even from frequent usage.

The second part of my job is to seamlessly transplant those simple philosophies into the real world business environment and get it to make some serious money

 

[akirk]

Where I come from Alasdair is to make people aware that Marketing is an essential and by all means ignore what it does, but be prepared for the consequences.

Unfortunately folks often don't believe that the consequences will happen - too much 'head in the sand'. I prefer to talk to them about making money - they listen more even though it is probably the same discussion...

Alasdair

 

[Be Known PR]

Wow, great debate, and to think I spent the evening watching Watchdog stress over the fact that Tesco has made their bags thinner!!!

 

[Be Known PR]

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less if the Marx Brothers had invented the word "photojournalism" and it is not your job to "educate" me or anyone else about that. Your one and only job is to compel me to get in touch with you by phone, by email, by smoke signals, a message in a bottle if needs be, because you take THE best (wedding) photos, you can do exactly as instructed, you will give me your best advice and it won't cost me my right arm and left leg for the privilege. That is the beginning, middle and end of your entire website's function and the "branding" will follow in good time with some great copywriting, which you must first live up to.

I think the point is that whilst you and I know what the term 'photojournalism' portrays, to the average punter the words photo and journalism means intrusive paps that spend their days stalking people.

Think of the dire so called TV shows such as Celebrities Uncensored or Paparazzi and the rising impact or the Mr Paparazzi website.

That unfortunately completely contradicts the message that you want to portray that you blend in the background.

Official term or not, it is what your clients think that matters not what your peers think. This doesn't mean you need to change your style or the outcome, it just means you need to change the way you label it for the public.

 

[Kernowman]

I think the point is that whilst you and I know what the term 'photojournalism' portrays, to the average punter the words photo and journalism means intrusive paps that spend their days stalking people.

Think of the dire so called TV shows such as Celebrities Uncensored or Paparazzi and the rising impact or the Mr Paparazzi website.

That unfortunately completely contradicts the message that you want to portray that you blend in the background.

Official term or not, it is what your clients think that matters not what your peers think. This doesn't mean you need to change your style or the outcome, it just means you need to change the way you label it for the public.

My post David was to illustrate that the word "photojournalism" conjures up different meanings for different people and that is a very risky situation to be in.

Amongst the photography fraternity it could mean the pinnacle of being a snapper for all I know, whereas when I first set eyes on the word the image of someone dodging bullets in Beirut or Kabul and their pictures appearing on News at Ten or Life Magazine flashed through my mind, so do I really want someone in a flak jacket dodging from bush to bush and doing body rolls across the lawn at my wedding? That is most unlikely of course, but if that word creates diverse interpretations in people's minds, or there is even the RISK that it might, then it has comprehensively failed. Never underestimate the power of words.

 

[S-Marketing]

Just a quick point, but I always think photos look better when they stand alone, framed by space. It amazes me how many photographers spend the time to get photo's with decent composition, ony to stick them right next to each other, completely ruining the efect. As in OP's home page.

 

[DetectiveDenise]

Not sure if my input will be at all welcome here, but I think your domain name should be your name, as people will see the photos, say how fantastic they were and they will remember the photographers name. That is what they will google. So my opinion is you are your brand and that's the angle you should take.
Denise

 

[Kernowman]

Not sure if my input will be at all welcome here, but I think your domain name should be your name, as people will see the photos, say how fantastic they were and they will remember the photographers name. That is what they will google. So my opinion is you are your brand and that's the angle you should take.
Denise

Well you are partly correct Denise. As the OP stands at the moment, there isn't really a "brand" to aspire towards. I think that Simon Atkins is a very nice name don't get me wrong, but it doesn't get me enervated enough to turn cartwheels and if you asked me again a few days later for his name I might reply "Simon who?".

Now then, if I renamed this chap for the purpose of branding with something like "Spike", it has immediately acquired another dimension hasn't it? Jolly sight easier to remember too. I doubted at the time the wisdom of the person that changed some chap's name from Arnold Dorsey to Englebert Humperdink but maybe that was memorable for another reason LOL

 

[CSBob]

Guys, may I just say that I found this whole thread absolutely fascinating & thought-provoking - so much so that in the process my grub's gone cold and my 'other half' is now threatening to make me wear it...

Thanks for taking the time to discuss the finer points of what, to the rest of us, is more often than not barely understood - if at all.

 

[S-Marketing]

Guys, may I just say that I found this whole thread absolutely fascinating & thought-provoking - so much so that in the process my grub's gone cold and my 'other half' is now threatening to make me wear it...

Thanks for taking the time to discuss the finer points of what, to the rest of us, is more often than not barely understood - if at all.

No worries mate, where do I send the invoice?

 

[Kernowman]

Heard nothing from the OP for three days now, so obviously he has gone off in a huff. I had a huff once and a mile and a huff later the bloomin' wheel fell off it.

I dunno, these people come on here expecting us to fart miracles for them and for free too I might add, then cop a wobbly when we don't say what they wanted to hear, or completely ignore the collective wisdoms bestowed upon them which is their correct path to take.

Perhaps I should have said in my first post "I know, as your branding theme I will rename you Fozzie which is easy to remember and you can do your weddings dressed in a big bear suit, wearing a straw hat and flapping your ears".

Not good? Oh please yerselves then

Well it is Sunday afternoon innit

 

[eventdomain]

Your website isn't bad, but doesn't do you justice so would recommend you get a more 'high profile' facelift done, to display what you seek.

The blog is fine, but I'd create a 2nd page for the testimonials - you want to show these off. Also nowhere on the site do you display that your qualified, I imagine the training you did took years, so let people know you know your stuff, and list any awards or finalist positions too.

(put some testimonials on the homepage too!)

 

[Kernowman]

When you land on the home page half of it isn't even visible

You have to scroll down for the rest of the page content and what is causing that I think is the words "Enter [ Full Screen Flash | HTML (for dial up) ] - View Blog" which suggests your immediate task is to ENTER the site, not to scroll down.

I presume the intention of the design was to keep it clean and simple at first sight, but what has resulted in the implementation has not worked.

I don't like the third person style of copywriting either and it sounds more like a yearly employee appraisal or a school report, than being actually focussed on selling what the man can do.

 

[weddingphotojournalist]

Not sure if my input will be at all welcome here, but I think your domain name should be your name, as people will see the photos, say how fantastic they were and they will remember the photographers name. That is what they will google. So my opinion is you are your brand and that's the angle you should take.
Denise

Thanks Denise. My name is already in use as a domain name by somebody else. I don't think it matters too much as if you google my name and photography my website is at the top of Google.

 

[weddingphotojournalist]

Heard nothing from the OP for three days now, so obviously he has gone off in a huff. I had a huff once and a mile and a huff later the bloomin' wheel fell off it.

I dunno, these people come on here expecting us to fart miracles for them and for free too I might add, then cop a wobbly when we don't say what they wanted to hear, or completely ignore the collective wisdoms bestowed upon them which is their correct path to take.

Sorry guys and girls, I have a lot of weddings to do which take me out of the office. Next week I have a wedding on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday, all at opposite ends of the country.

 

[weddingphotojournalist]

Thank you for pointing that out, do you know what your screen resolution is please? The home page has some script which should centre it regardless of what size screen you have, the flash pages should also adjust size depending on your screen size. Most people have at least 1024x800 pixels, at which the home page should show all of the text.

When you land on the home page half of it isn't even visible

You have to scroll down for the rest of the page content and what is causing that I think is the words "Enter [ Full Screen Flash | HTML (for dial up) ] - View Blog" which suggests your immediate task is to ENTER the site, not to scroll down.

I presume the intention of the design was to keep it clean and simple at first sight, but what has resulted in the implementation has not worked.

I don't like the third person style of copywriting either and it sounds more like a yearly employee appraisal or a school report, than being actually focussed on selling what the man can do.

 

[Kernowman]

My screen is set on 1280 x 1024 and have full pages on everything else I view, including this forum