Cost for Bookkeeper

[Mike403]

Good day all,

I recently started a property development company about 1 year ago with my business partner and got a family friends son to do the bookkeeping as we were about to convert an old hotel into three luxury flats. He suggested we register for vat which we did and have claimed a fair amount back over the last 3 quarters. He pretty much looks after everything on the bookkeeping side of thing i.e create invoices for 6 subcontractors weekly, monthly CIS and we hand over anywhere between 30-50 invoices and receipts per month. He also does other random stuff for us like ensured we had service contracts for the subcontractors and other random tasks.

We only pay a set fee for the CIS at £4.00 per subcontractor, £2.00 per invoice he creates and 24.99 for something called sage but charges an hourly rate for everything else at £12. Our monthly bill ranges from £120 to as high as £380. So my question is how much would other bookkeepers charge and am I getting a good deal? He's also said he would sort out our year end for companies house and do the tax return for this year but I'm not sure wether to get an actual accountant or not we haven't made any profit yet and we won't until we sell the flats so I'd assume those tasks would be pretty straight forward. So my other question is do we let the bookkeeper do them or get an accountant and would this cause any conflict between the bookkeeper and accountant?

Many thanks

 

[STDFR33]

£12 per hour is cheap. £18-25ph around here.

An accountant and bookkeeper should work together.

 

[NicoJ]

I agree with the above regarding rates - £12 is pretty cheap.

I would get an accountant if I were you, usually the accoutant can pick up something the bookkeeper doesn't know or has missed (sometimes vice versa). Not to be alarmist but I would ask the accountant to review the VAT situation as well. VAT on property can be quite complicated and you want to ensure that this is correct.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Good day all,

I recently started a property development company about 1 year ago with my business partner and got a family friends son to do the bookkeeping as we were about to convert an old hotel into three luxury flats. He suggested we register for vat which we did and have claimed a fair amount back over the last 3 quarters. He pretty much looks after everything on the bookkeeping side of thing i.e create invoices for 6 subcontractors weekly, monthly CIS and we hand over anywhere between 30-50 invoices and receipts per month. He also does other random stuff for us like ensured we had service contracts for the subcontractors and other random tasks.

We only pay a set fee for the CIS at £4.00 per subcontractor, £2.00 per invoice he creates and 24.99 for something called sage but charges an hourly rate for everything else at £12. Our monthly bill ranges from £120 to as high as £380. So my question is how much would other bookkeepers charge and am I getting a good deal? He's also said he would sort out our year end for companies house and do the tax return for this year but I'm not sure wether to get an actual accountant or not we haven't made any profit yet and we won't until we sell the flats so I'd assume those tasks would be pretty straight forward. So my other question is do we let the bookkeeper do them or get an accountant and would this cause any conflict between the bookkeeper and accountant?

Many thanks

£12 per hour for bookkeeping is very cheap but £120 to £380 per month for bookkeeping suggests he's doing a lot of work at £12 per hour. Are you sure he's really spending that much time?

Bookkeeping is one thing, dealing with accounts and tax is another and you need an accountant to prepare accounts and deal with your company tax properly. It's quite normal for accountants and bookkeepers to work together.

 

[Mike403]

thanks all for the replies, I should also note that my bookkeeper only does his job part time i think i'm only 1 of about 2 or 3 clients.

a typical monthly invoice looks like this

Bookkeeping/Vat £12.00 x 4hrs £48.00
CIS £ 4.00 x 6 £24.00
Missing Invoices £ 2.00 x 6 £24.00
SAGE £24.99 x 1 £24.99
Misc £12.00 x 6 £72.00
Total £192.99

The misc on the invoice i always assume it's all the times throughout the month we phone him to to random things such as find us cheaper company landline or find a bricklayer for us at short notice. His higest bill at £380 was for 2 months work and also included typing up a service contract for all subcontractors on site and setting up supplier accounts online. I get he does more than what i asume a typical bookkeeper would do. but if everyone is in agreement and I'm getting a good deal then I'm happy. I'm also unsure of his qualifications it seems a bit late to ask that sort of thing after he's been working for us for 8 months. my partners happy for the bookkeeper to do final accounts and tax return but I'll defo seek advice from an accountant.

 

[STDFR33]

If this bookkeeper was competent at company accounts and taxation, he wouldn't be doing general admin duties for £12ph.

 

[Mike403]

If this bookkeeper was competent at company accounts and taxation, he wouldn't be doing general admin duties for £12ph.

I hear you, it's great that he does though as it frees up time that can be spent on the renovation. We were looking to try and take him on full time to do all our admin work a few months ago but he declined as he only wants to work on a part time basis if i remember correctly something to do with an army pension and wanting to enjoy life.

 

[Clearaccy]

Sounds like a great deal. He is also doing more than just bookkeeping for you which is nice to have.

I would definitely seek an Accountants advice at year end - they will be able to double check the records etc.

 

[Gecko001]

If you hired him full time at minimum wage, with employer's NI, holiday pay, sick pay insurance and providing him with an office place and computer etc. it would probably cost you more than £12 per hour.

 

[Mike403]

If you hired him full time at minimum wage, with employer's NI, holiday pay, sick pay insurance and providing him with an office place and computer etc. it would probably cost you more than £12 per hour.

Ive not long spoke to him, turns out we get his mates rates and as he has an army pension he only works part time doing bookkeeping more to keep himself busy than anything else. I appreciate everyones replies. I feel more relaxed going forward.

 

[Glenn Martin]

His rate is cheap but he is not working smartly. if is bill moves between the range you state. Most firms offer fixed fees and cover everything you need.. They use technology to scan and automate the process. If your guy is on an hourly rate he is less likely to come up with ideas to reduce his hours as it will hit is pocket. someone who is on fixed price is better for you. From what you say a fee of £250 to £300 pm should cover everything you including year end work, not just bookkeeping. I would maybe test the local market to see what you will get for your money.

 

[KAC]

Missing Invoices £ 2.00 x 6 £24.00

I'd be a bit worried if this is an example of his bookkeeping skills

 

[KAC]

Not to be alarmist but I would ask the accountant to review the VAT situation as well. VAT on property can be quite complicated and you want to ensure that this is correct.

I agree with @NicoJ

 

[Newchodge]

You do not have a bookkeeper, you have a dogsbody. You may struggle to find anyone else to do this range of tasks for you at such a reasonable rate.