Confused about PR

[LuckyNo8]

Hi all,

We are a little confused about what to do with our product and getting retail (newspaper (FT Style etc), magazines (GQ, Esquire etc)) PR coverage.

We've spoken to a few reasonably well known PR companies recently, and the starting rate seems to be around 25 to 30k! My impression was that this is "small fry" stuff, and normally people spend 50k+. For my hard earned money I'd probably get an intern working for free doing the grunt work with a senior person signing it off.

At this price, in the current market, I could hire someone full-time who has maybe a year's experience.

At the very most someone could spend on average is 1 full day a week marketing my product (mens stuff, so limited mags/targets etc). For the PR company quoted rate, that's 550 quid a day!

Am I missing something here? Should I just try and find someone well experienced who's looking to keep themselves busy and pay them say 250 a day and get them in-house?

Seems like people think money grows on trees...

Thanks

 

[S-Marketing]

Generally you will get what you pay for. The agencies wanting to charge £500 + a day will probably get you exposure in the publications you are hoping for. Someone who will work for £250 a day probably wont.

Money doesn't go on trees, but neither do highly skilled marketing professionals. I personally hit the price band somewhere in the middle at about £400+ VAT a day, but I make my clients many £000's, so they are happy to pay it.

You need to not only think about the expense, but also the return you will get on the investment.

 

[Kernowman]

I think you might be missing the free lunches, champagne receptions and backhanders the publishers need to include your articles in their magazines

An advertorial costs just as much if not more than an average full colour advert.

It is no easy task that's for sure persuading publishers to include copy unless it is highly newsworthy or has a big celebrity name behind it.

It is a lot of money for something that has a very short shelf and there are better ways to invest your marketing budget than splashing out on expensive PR and PR consultants.

 

[fusingcreativity]

I think the thing with the PR agencies is that you are paying for the contacts and the relationships with the right people - you can't buy that elsewhere and those relationships are really really hard to form.

Having said that, us 'Small fry' hate being called that, we're all big in our own world

 

[LuckyNo8]

hmm.... for us, the main target use is as a sales tool, but not sales itself if that makes sense. We are often asked by potential customers or distributors "what magazines have you been in" or "where have you been featured". Having nothing to say is somewhat.... embarassing.

I'm really curious, since none of the people I met could answer me straight... for someone with your skill level, what kind of coverage should your clients expect to get? Is it reasonable to expect 1 product placement/appearance/article a month? Every other month? I assume this would be in a predefined list of target publications?

Comment: "small fry" was directed at ourselves, whereby even spending 25-30k, we would be a small account for them =)

Thanks!

 

[fusingcreativity]

hmm.... for us, the main target use is as a sales tool, but not sales itself if that makes sense. We are often asked by potential customers or distributors "what magazines have you been in" or "where have you been featured". Having nothing to say is somewhat.... embarassing.

I'm really curious, since none of the people I met could answer me straight... for someone with your skill level, what kind of coverage should your clients expect to get? Is it reasonable to expect 1 product placement/appearance/article a month? Every other month? I assume this would be in a predefined list of target publications?

Thanks!

Hiya Lucky,

I'm not dodging the question, but I know why they do, they live and die by your content, they can give edge to your stories and content but if your content ain't newsworthy (other than the fact they should tell you) it's difficult to promote.

I'm (thankfully) not a full on PR girl, but on average, clients I have worked with in the tech sector tend to receive 1-3 BIG pieces of coverage for strong releases and maybe 1 if they are lucky for smaller ones, but sometimes some of the smaller pieces of coverage deliver more actual targeted consumers.

Sorry, it's late, I feel like I'm waffling now...

 

[fusingcreativity]

p.s yes you would always specifiy your 'target' list, with key publications and people you want to notice.

And I'm happy to be small fry too...

 

[andav]

I should think you can get a much better rate than £550 a day.

Don't forget many experienced PR people startup their own 1 man band agencies as the barriers to entry are low.

I'd look for a much smaller agency with experience in your sector

 

[ethical PR]

Hi all,

We are a little confused about what to do with our product and getting retail (newspaper (FT Style etc), magazines (GQ, Esquire etc)) PR coverage.

We've spoken to a few reasonably well known PR companies recently, and the starting rate seems to be around 25 to 30k! My impression was that this is "small fry" stuff, and normally people spend 50k+. For my hard earned money I'd probably get an intern working for free doing the grunt work with a senior person signing it off.

At this price, in the current market, I could hire someone full-time who has maybe a year's experience.

At the very most someone could spend on average is 1 full day a week marketing my product (mens stuff, so limited mags/targets etc). For the PR company quoted rate, that's 550 quid a day!

Am I missing something here? Should I just try and find someone well experienced who's looking to keep themselves busy and pay them say 250 a day and get them in-house?

Seems like people think money grows on trees...

Thanks

Yes it can be confusing, there are lots of options available when you want to promote your business.

Perhaps a good approach would be to put together a brief for yourself (if you haven't done so already) to help you identify;

• what you want to achieve by investing in promoting your business
• what sort of audiences you want to reach
• what skills, resources and abilities you have within the business to achieve this
• what sort of areas might you need help with.

So for example, you might feel that you have the expertise inhouse to handle development of your website, online and social media, but need help with PR, marketing and promotions. Or you might feel you can handle everything on the marketing, online and promotions side, but just need help with securing quality media coverage.

Include the cores skills and experience you require in your brief.

Options to consider are;

• using an agency
• using a freelance
• employing someone in house

As an estimate, freelancers will range from £150 - £450 a day depending on experience. Agencies will range from about £250 - £2000 a day depending on size, experience, expertise.

If you have a budget of £25 - £30K depending on where you are based you could probably employ someone at around Account Manager level, but will also need to allow for tax and NI, training, holidays, and costs.

If you are looking at using an agency or freelancer, in response to your brief and after meeting/talking to you to discuss your requirements, ask them to provide a proposal that outlines;

• what support they can offer within your indicative budget
• an outline of their relevant experience and expertise with the media you want to target, of any other skills you require ie copywriting, promotions, strategy and of promoting your type of product
• profiles for the team delivering your support
• identify how many hours they will offer and which team member/s will offer support
• a suggested approach and agreed outcomes
• references

Developing a clear brief and asking for proposals in line with the above, will help you to evaluate whether you will get value for money, whether you feel they have the expertise and experience you are looking for and links in any support offered to agreed outputs.

It's also important to feel that you have the right chemistry and can work together.

www.cipr.co.uk has a guide to commissioning PR support
www.marketingdonut.co.uk has a list of 'PR experts' and lots of advice on PR and marketing

you can advertise for agencies and freelancers on peopleperhour

Good luck.
Helen

 

[Sarah Harvey]

There are some insightful answers above, but sometimes people forget that when you start a business, every penny counts. Well that is until you make or break your business.

Personally if you are prepared to pay the advertising rates of magazines/newspapers, then I don't see why you shouldn't hire an intern or a freelancer just starting out that would be interested in gaining some experience in the field.

I know I would jump at such an opportunity myself if I had the choice, just to gain some experience. There are some real creative and talented people out there, just looking for an opportunity to make their mark and it is well worth taking a look into alternative routes.

 

[S-Marketing]

There are some insightful answers above, but sometimes people forget that when you start a business, every penny counts. Well that is until you make or break your business.

Personally if you are prepared to pay the advertising rates of magazines/newspapers, then I don't see why you shouldn't hire an intern or a freelancer just starting out that would be interested in gaining some experience in the field.

I know I would jump at such an opportunity myself if I had the choice, just to gain some experience. There are some real creative and talented people out there, just looking for an opportunity to make their mark and it is well worth taking a look into alternative routes.

He doesn't need a creative person. He doesn't even need anyone remotely intelligent. What he needs is someone with the right contacts. Pr at this level is all about the contacts. People with contacts to get him in GQ and Esquire are expensive, end of story.

And if Ethical thinks she can find someone with those contacts on PeoplePerHour, she's dreaming.

 

[Sarah Harvey]

He doesn't need a creative person. He doesn't even need anyone remotely intelligent. What he needs is someone with the right contacts. Pr at this level is all about the contacts. People with contacts to get him in GQ and Esquire are expensive, end of story.

And if Ethical thinks she can find someone with those contacts on PeoplePerHour, she's dreaming.

I guess that is why some businesses fail to find and keep great employees. All the good talent know what their worth is.

(I am sure on some basic level that a person still needs to be intelligent.)

It is a common myth that you need to hire a PR Professional. If you understand your market, can identify what is noteworthy about your business and compose a compelling message, then he/she can get the results on their own. Professionals can also argue that they have media contacts the business lacks, that is all the more reason the business should initiate such relationships in the first place.

Disadvantages of hiring outside help comes down to cost as the major obstacle. Then you have to look at things like how familiar the company/individual will be about the service you deliver or products you sell. As a business, it is also important to consider what would happen if you want to work with the media contacts yourself further down the line. What would happen if your business does not work with the company or individual at a later stage? How would it impact your profits if you have to hire another PR Professional/Company further down the line and start all over again? Also, if it was my business then I would not learn anything by hiring a PR Professional. Therefore I would be reliant on the person/company and their contacts.

Of course there are advantages as well.

In the end it does depend on the person's needs and whether they have the budget for outside help or not.

 

[S-Marketing]

I guess that is why some businesses fail to find and keep great employees. All the good talent know what their worth is.

(I am sure on some basic level that a person still needs to be intelligent.)

It is a common myth that you need to hire a PR Professional. If you understand your market, can identify what is noteworthy about your business and compose a compeling message, then he/she can get the results on their own. Professionals can also argue that they have media contacts the business lacks, that is all the more reason the business should initiate such relationships in the first place.

Disadvantages of hiring outside help comes down to cost as the major obstacle. Then you have to look at things like how familiar the company/individual will be about the service you deliver or products you sell. As a business, it is also important to consider what would happen if you want to work with the media contacts yourself further down the line. What would happen if your business does not work with the company or individual at a later stage? How would it impact your profits if you have to hire another PR Professional/Company further down the line and start all over again? Also, if it was my business then I would not learn anything by hiring a PR Professional. Therefore I would be reliant on the person/company and their contacts.

Of course there are advantages as well.

In the end it does depend on the person's needs and whether they have the budget for outside help or not.

All good points Sarah but the sad fact is, if you want to get into the pages of the big players you need to know someone who knows someone.

I completely agree with your points, and over the longer term, using effective marketing and building your own contacts is an excellent idea and will be better for the business long term. However, the OP needs exposure now. These types of businesses are often 'of the moment' and time taken at this stage could be the difference between success and failure.

 

[Sarah Harvey]

--> Stretchy

You are completely right as well of course. If someone needs to establish credibility or seize an opportunistic moment, then it is well worth it.

Building connections and relationships with the right contacts is invaluable and should definitely be utilized in every business that wants to be successful.

 

[S-Marketing]

--> Stretchy

You are completely right as well of course. If someone needs to establish credibility or seize an opportunistic moment, then it is well worth it.

Building connections and relationships with the right contacts is invaluable and should definitely be utilized in every business that wants to be successful.

At the end of the day its all down to timing. If the OP wants his products to get maximum exposure soon, he'll have to pay for it.

The problem with playing the long game is that he may never get the exposure he wants, no matter how hard he tries, or how clever he is. This means all the time he has spent trying is wasted.

IMO its not about how good your product is, or even who likes it, its all about getting someone well known wearing it, in a mag with credibility. You or I could spend days, weeks or even months trying to built a brand for the OP, just to get completely blown out of the water by someone who knows someone at Conde Nast.

Who is it you work for Sarah?

 

[Sarah Harvey]

Stretchy, I actually do not work for anyone at the moment.

Currently I am seeking a position that will effectively maximize my experience in something I enjoy (marketing), and it would be a definite change from the hotel industry that I worked in before. However right now, I am just expanding my online presence with some of the websites I own.

I enjoy keeping up to date with all the latest developments in the digital world, so I am simply enjoying interacting with people at the moment.

Written communication has always been my strongest point.

 

[JoTheEntreprenette]

Hello LuckyNo8

This might be another way to find free PR. It is called www.helpareporter.com Every day, I receive emails updating me with topics/subjects that journalist want asistance writing about. Great way to be seen as an expert. I hear that over 50,000 journalists use HARO to locate experts for on-air interviews, article quotes and more.

It is a free service to join and worth spending 30 seconds reviewing the email on a daily basis.

Regards

Jo

 

[ethical PR]

He doesn't need a creative person. He doesn't even need anyone remotely intelligent. What he needs is someone with the right contacts. Pr at this level is all about the contacts. People with contacts to get him in GQ and Esquire are expensive, end of story.

And if Ethical thinks she can find someone with those contacts on PeoplePerHour, she's dreaming.

Not dreaming at all Stetchy. If I didn't think it was one of a number of potential avenues the OP could explore to find a suitably experienced PR with the right sort of contacts, I wouldn't have suggested it.

There are quite a few highly experienced UK PR's who specialise in different sectors on PPH charging out at about £35 - £55 an hour.

 

[eventdomain]

PR seems difficult, and in most cases, without a cool story, you won't get very much, very quickly.

The basics are that its a 'build you up' thing, its mostly time heavy and is about fitting you in with other stories or can be a feature story on your own. So its a very timely thing eg: you may send out a release, but you won't be covered for various reasons eg:

1. Not newsworthy enough
2. Unnewsworthy
3. Not enough has been written about you yet
4. Inexperienced Journalists 'not getting the idea' (even when you had press!)

But most press about businesses will be 'Consumer PR', and agencies have lists of local, regional and national journalist contacts that they use to hopefully (never guaranteed) get you coverage.

Agency fees can be high, and does NOT determine any sort of quality outcome whatsoever. But £20 - £30k is outrageous and I simply wouldn't pay it when there are agencies out there who will do a great job for £1000 per month incl VAT!

But saying that, it depends what's being done for you, and some huge media drive, could well set you back £20k... so it depends, but for normal business PR stuff, that amount is high. PR isn't difficult, (although I have used an agency before), I now do this myself and to be honest, its about ringing up the newsdesk and speaking to Journalists, if they publish, great - if they don't I haven't sold my house to pay for it all.

The upside is, its free! The downside is its very time consuming to do, you won't always get it right, and you'll lack the huge list of newspaper contacts needed to do the PR effort justice.

There's agencies out there that will do a cracking job for a few thousand per quarter, and no I don't mean freelancers, I mean proper, established agencies. Suggest you start looking for websites PR pages and contacting the PR company behind the website - and make an enquiry.

Basically you want an agency that specialises in start-up public relations and there are a few that do this well, otherwise - opt for a one-off piece of work eg: get into the Evening Standard, as its cheaper.

Suggest you do the local PR yourself, until you're comfortable chatting with the bigger newspapers. Often the local papers give outstanding write-ups which act as a great credibility tool, which leads onto other stories being done by more local papers, and then its easier to get into the Regionals.....

Press releases can be done for £100, and you only need 1 to begin with - so start sending it out to local newspapers, but you must phone and speak to them, or you won't be taken as serious. YOU MUST CONTACT!!!!!!

Your release can be lost, sent to the wrong Journo etc etc, so expect to send the same release out if you haven't heard anything for a few weeks.

But keep it up. You can get lists of the regionals and locals off the web, the newspapers have online editions, but get a copy of the Writers & Artists Yearbook £14.99 and will have quite a large list of newspaper contacts and magazines for UK. Don't discount targeted magazines, you can pick up good space for £200 or less, and it gets you an article to display on your website.

 

[David White]

Paul Green can help: http://www.publicityheaven.com or you could try spending some of your budget on relevant advertising, you can get plenty on our site for your budget. Outdoor advertising can be just as strong as good PR depending on what your selling of course????

 

[eventdomain]

Outdoor advertising can be just as strong as good PR depending on what your selling of course????

No, PR tells a story, advertising doesn't. People like stories.....

Advertising doesn't give the credibility that PR does.

 

[dagaul101]

Stick with the cheapest and most profitable option, with some leeway for yourself in case you might have to spend some more

 

[Be Known PR]

Not dreaming at all Stetchy. If I didn't think it was one of a number of potential avenues the OP could explore to find a suitably experienced PR with the right sort of contacts, I wouldn't have suggested it.

There are quite a few highly experienced UK PR's who specialise in different sectors on PPH charging out at about £35 - £55 an hour.

I agree - PPH can be a good source for this, but you will need to be prepared to sift through the unsuitable responses to find the good eggs.

What I would say is that you shouldn't be afraid to use a freelance PR consultant just because they aren't attached to a big agency. I know of a number of very good PRs who after 10 or so years of working for others decide they want to go it alone and often taking on freelance work is the best way to start building a PR business of your own.

My advice is speak to a few people, get them to put forward proposals and show you examples of coverage they have achieved for others and go with the person you feel most comfortable with.