COmpany name

[drdes]

I am just about to incorporate my company. I have the domain name but unfortunately there is already a company regsitered with that company name.

Say the name of my brand is "Pepsi". I own the domain name pepsi.com. However Pepsi Ltd has been taken up (although the company shows as non-trading and has been submitting dormant accounts since 1996).

So, can I register my company name as Pepsi Products Ltd (for example) or Pepsi Enterprises - i can't see there being an issue of passing off since the Pepsi Ltd does not appear to trade.

thanks

 

[drdes]

Further to the above:

i have now registered the company name "Pepsi Enterprises Ltd".

If i now use the brand name "Pepsi" for my product:

1. Can Pepsi Ltd take any action to stop me (given that the company is dormant and operates in a different industry)?
2. Can Pepsi Ltd try to use the "Pepsi" brand to move into my market and claim that they can use the brand since they own the company name?

(Note that i own the pepsi.com and pepsi.co.uk domain names)

would really appreciate it if someone could help since this could really stall my plans.

thanks

 

[alistaird]

Hello

I would advise to try to steer away from well known brands as company names as often these brands will benefit from trade mark protection on an international scale. This means that for example the owner of the Pepsi trade mark could threaten to sue you/your company for trade mark infringement for use of their registered trade mark 'Pepsi' on your goods. Similarly they could invoke the Icaan rules to force you to hand over a domain name containing their registered trade mark if they can establish that it was registered by you in bad faith.
Trading under a well known brand may well potentially be more trouble than its worth when the focus ought to be building the business some might say.
I hope that this is helpful.

Regards

Alistair

 

[drdes]

Alistair,

Thanks. My use of Pepsi was poorly judged.

The actual name is of a company which has been dormant for at least 5 years and is a non-trading subsidiary of a company which has nothing to do with my proposed business (this is not, and never has been a household name or anyhting like that).

In an ideal world, I woudl change my "brand" but I have already set up domain name and sent many emails from that domain name - so it would be a pain to change all that.

I am also certain that the company doesnt hve any trademarks or anything like that.

Some more guidance would be useful if you can pls.

 

[alistaird]

Hi
That being the case, based upon what you have said it seems that you are clear to go ahead. It's always worthwhile confirming that there is no UK registered trademark to be doubly safe.
I cannot really be more specific without knowing the full details but you do seem to be in possession of all the relevant information.
Regards

 

[saxondale]

Alistair,

Thanks. My use of Pepsi was poorly judged.

The actual name is of a company which has been dormant for at least 5 years and is a non-trading subsidiary of a company which has nothing to do with my proposed business (this is not, and never has been a household name or anyhting like that).

In an ideal world, I woudl change my "brand" but I have already set up domain name and sent many emails from that domain name - so it would be a pain to change all that.

I am also certain that the company doesnt hve any trademarks or anything like that.

Some more guidance would be useful if you can pls.

a ltd company name trumps a website domain name, as you say it`s a dormant company but if push came to shove and with you using an abreviated form of your own registered name they would get a fairer hearing.

nothing may come of it, only you can decide the risk.

 

[drdes]

a ltd company name trumps a website domain name, as you say it`s a dormant company but if push came to shove and with you using an abreviated form of your own registered name they would get a fairer hearing.

nothing may come of it, only you can decide the risk.

..but my argument (not sure how strong it is) would be that although they own the company name, they have done nothing with it whereas I have bought the domain and built a business using that name.

My other concern is what happens if I start using the name and build it into a well known brand in my sector. They decide to start operating in that sector (albeit their previous business is nothing to do with it) - they may claim that they can use the brand since they own the company name - intuitively I think that I would win since i have invested time and money into building that brand in my sector and hence, even though they would own the company name, i would be in a strong position (to my knowledge, owning a company name does not automatically prevent someone else using it as a brand in an unrelated sector - but them i am not really clued up in this sort of thing!)

 

[astutiumRob]

Of course you could just purchase the dormant company from them

 

[drdes]

Of course you could just purchase the dormant company from them

Is there any way I can buy the name from them (not the company) - i.e. get them to change their name and then regsiter it myself?

 

[astutiumRob]

Is there any way I can buy the name from them (not the company) - i.e. get them to change their name and then regsiter it myself?

Technically yes, they could change from pepsi ltd to ispep ltd and then you could rename to pepsi ltd (or someone else could "nab" it)

If it's dormant, I'd just buy the company (assuming they will sell it).

 

[Bob]

Have you registered a trademark ?

 

[drdes]

Have you registered a trademark ?

not yet - but considering it.

WIth respect to buying the dormant company - not sure how it works (it is a dormant sunsidiary of a trading holding company) - lso not sure i want to buy teh company since woudl need to DD history, warranties etc.. - don't have time for that - trying to focus on my business!!!!

 

[saxondale]

not yet - but considering it.

WIth respect to buying the dormant company - not sure how it works (it is a dormant sunsidiary of a trading holding company) - lso not sure i want to buy teh company since woudl need to DD history, warranties etc.. - don't have time for that - trying to focus on my business!!!!

okay, staying with your example, you won`t have a business if pepsi find out your using their name.


they had it first - end of story.

 

[drdes]

okay, staying with your example, you won`t have a business if pepsi find out your using their name.


they had it first - end of story.

even if Pepsi is a dormant company that is in a completely different industry to mine?

 

[saxondale]

even if Pepsi is a dormant company that is in a completely different industry to mine?

yes ... ...................

 

[drdes]

yes ... ...................

Thanks - I hope you are wrong!! If not, this is going to be a real pain in the proverbial!!

Anyone else got views - i think i am going to have to see a solicitor tomorrow

 

[saxondale]

Thanks - I hope you are wrong!! If not, this is going to be a real pain in the proverbial!!

Anyone else got views - i think i am going to have to see a solicitor tomorrow

LOL - are they called "Pepsi Legal and General"?






they`ll just tell you what I said above, you might get away with it - you might not.

/

 

[drdes]

LOL - are they called "Pepsi Legal and General"?






no, see?

i dont see because both Pepsi and L&G are trading companies

 

[drdes]

Would registering a trademark help my cause?

 

[saxondale]

Would registering a trademark help my cause?

look at it another way, upto now the ltd company have no idea that you exist, try and trade mark the name and they are likely to find out.

They will then just say "we have the dormant company already with this name" and your back to square one.

Just get trading and see what happens ............

 

[drdes]

look at it another way, upto now the ltd company have no idea that you exist, try and trade mark the name and they are likely to find out.

They will then just say "we have the dormant company already with this name" and your back to square one.

Just get trading and see what happens ............

The problem is i cant afford to start trading and then have to change - i need to spend money on website design, logos, stationary etc.. now.

Intuitively I dont see how they can call this passing off but you sound like an expert so will defer.

 

[saxondale]

The problem is i cant afford to start trading and then have to change - i need to spend money on website design, logos, stationary etc.. now.

Intuitively I dont see how they can call this passing off but you sound like an expert so will defer.

i`m only an expert in comman sense, either wing it (and maybe change it in the future) or change it now.

If it help I would wing it.

 

[MrMichael]

On the basis that the company is dormant (and the business is also dormant) and they did trade in goods/services different to your own then there is a low risk of any issues arising from your usage.

You wouldn't necessarily have to seek a full transfer of the limited company entity; only a transfer of goodwill in the name.

Feel free to send me more detailed info and I'll give you a more informed view.

To minimise risk, you could always approach the company, but they may well look for some money from you for the transfer of their business name

 

[Bob]

On the basis that the company is dormant (and the business is also dormant) and they did trade in goods/services different to your own then there is a low risk of any issues arising from your usage. You wouldn't necessarily have to seek a full transfer of the limited company entity.

Feel free to send me more detailed info and I'll give you a more informed view.

CheeMichael

To minimise risk, you could always approach the company, but they may well look for some money from you for the transfer of their business name

... and MrMichael really is an expert

 

[MrMichael]

Heh, sorry for typos...small keys on mobile I'm afraid!

 

[drdes]

i`m only an expert in comman sense, either wing it (and maybe change it in the future) or change it now.

If it help I would wing it.

saxondale - are you a lawyer or just someone helping me as a layman? (not trying to be funny - just asking because you seem quite legally knowledgeable but then say you are an expert in "common sense"

 

[saxondale]

saxondale - are you a lawyer or just someone helping me as a layman? (not trying to be funny - just asking because you seem quite legally knowledgeable but then say you are an expert in "common sense"

no, not a lawyer.

 

[steve23]

I must say - if there is any doubt, why put yourself through it ?

Why not just get a name that is not in use and go from there.

I know you say you have sent some emails etc under the current name, but many companies re-brand so is it really that critical ?

It would be better doing it now than later as you have said yourself.

That's what I would do anyway.

All the best

Steve

 

[drdes]

I must say - if there is any doubt, why put yourself through it ?

Why not just get a name that is not in use and go from there.

I know you say you have sent some emails etc under the current name, but many companies re-brand so is it really that critical ?

It would be better doing it now than later as you have said yourself.

That's what I would do anyway.

All the best

Steve

because i really like the name and have managed to get both .com and .co.uk for it - believe me these days (with so many people cyber squatting), it is not easy to find another such name.

When i found the name, I didnt think about the company name, hence my current predicament

 

[steve23]

Yes - its very easy to become attached to a name I agree - I've done it many times.

But if the domains were not free you would have had to come up with another name anyway.

So why not look at coming up with something else.

It can seem like all the good ones are taken, but many business will open from today onwards - with ltd names and related domains - so im sure you could come up with something.

I just think it may be easier in the long run.

But I hope you can work out a way to keep the name if that's what you really want.

All the best

Steve

 

[Stuart Bailey]

trading name and name of the limited company are different.

You often see on headed letters, X Limited trading as Y.

Providing you are not passing off the other businesses and there is no breach of trademark or copyright then there should not be a problem trading under your website address.