Closing company down with bounce back loan - success

[zeus70]

ok, finally got company closed down and lender to claim on the 100% backed government guarantee. wasnt easy, but this is what i did as my personal opinion was that the BBL wasnt a loan, but mis sold , as it was a grant being 100% gauranteed. this is not advise, but an overview of the journey i went thorugh.

<deleted>

so why was the bbl written , i.e lender eventually claimed on government guarantee. my argument was always business has no money, and bounce back loan was mis sold. how many people thought the 100% guarantee would mean this was a grant? if you through that, then challenge lender, debt collecter and hmrc and see if they agree and let you close down company and write off debt.

this could end up being a bigger misselling scandal than ppi.

 

[Strontium Dog]

It saddens me that the king of the gods has fallen from his lofty perch on Mt Olympus to be nothing better than a parasite.

 

[zeus70]

It saddens me that the king of the gods has fallen from his lofty perch on Mt Olympus to be nothing better than a parasite.

unfortunately the first people to complain about PPI mis selling got the same abuse, so this reply was expected. i do hope in the coming months hmrc writes off these BBL when challenged, instead of going down the "mis selling" route. i'm not alone, many thousands took on these BBL instead of other business loans as they were sold as 100% guaranteed. hopefully call recorded bu lenders will show, even their staff thought this and told people such. The little guy can win against HMRC.

 

[Strontium Dog]

MY taxes are paying for YOUR bounce back loan.

 

[zeus70]

MY taxes are paying for YOUR bounce back loan.

That's not true. Quantitative easing, i.e bank of England printing money paid for all the bounce back loans. no tax payers were used. Once people understand this, they will realise this money effectively got created during the pandemic to fund BBL, track and trace etc.

 

[Picture Bute]

This joker has also posted this on contractoruk.com trying to make out that a BBL was a grant which you don't have to repay.

 

[japancool]

ok, finally got company closed down and lender to claim on the 100% backed government guarantee. wasnt easy, but this is what i did as my personal opinion was that the BBL wasnt a loan, but mis sold , as it was a grant being 100% gauranteed. this is not advise, but an overview of the journey i went thorugh.

Don't talk bullsh*t. You knew the BBL wasn't a grant.

 

[Mr D]

Amused that someone can see the BBL as mis-sold.

Still, that's the bank's problem now not yours. Whether they can claim anything back on that..... is more open to question.

Admittedly the way the banks started chucking free money around after they got given government 100% guarantee was appalling and the scheme had a lot of abuse.
But mis-sold? So far you appear to be the sole person claiming that.

Having had a BBL for my own company I can't see how that applies. No more mis-selling than the local BP garage selling petrol.

 

[WaveJumper]

From gov.uk
The scheme helps small and medium-sized businesses to borrow between £2,000 and up to 25% of their turnover. The maximum loan available is £50,000.

The government guarantees 100% of the loan and there won’t be any fees or interest to pay for the first 12 months. After 12 months the interest rate will be 2.5% a year.

Funny don’t see the word grant But believe what you want

 

[japancool]

Only an idiot would think that something called a Bounce Back LOAN is a grant.

And I'm sure the OP doesn't want people to think he's an idiot.

 

[Mr D]

Only an idiot would think that something called a Bounce Back LOAN is a grant.

And I'm sure the OP doesn't want people to think he's an idiot.

No, I'm sure we won't think he's an idiot.
A few other words apply. Words used in previous threads regarding BBL.
But no need for us to think he's an idiot.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Well, you are the first person to post on here actually admitting to being a crook and an idiot

Well done!

 

[tan_lan]

What other product has such a pro business stance than a BBL

Minimal interest
No personal guarantees
Interest holiday
10 year term
Virtually zero validation of accounts/business need to qualify

And someone thinks its mis-sold. Hang on, it was mis-sold: to tax payers!!!

What the OP really did was make it clear to the bank that pursuing it was pointless, basically SpongeBob style.

 

[zeus70]

as with PPI i expected lots of people to come online and claim nothing was mis sold - but that doesn't change the fact a lot of people out there feel this way (judging by all the private messages im getting)

• 100% gaurantee was used to coerce people to borrow. we now have a large accounting body (Association of Accounting Technicians) asking the government to write off all bounce back loans

• possible breach on unfair lending - i.e lender continued to lend money to business who were unable to pay. no check were done. grounds for compensation.
• encouraged further borrowing- again if people feel lenders encouraged them to borrow further, this is grounds for compensation.

im glad these threads are now online so others can see. to those who want to call me "stupid" etc, i am not sure what you gain. however i will be updating the thread once HMRC releases information on how much debt they have written off etc, and then we can see if these loans were mis sold or not.

 

[Ian J]

This joker has also posted this on contractoruk.com trying to make out that a BBL was a grant which you don't have to repay.

He got short shrift over there too from the more honest contractors to the extent that the forum moderator even removed his details of how to perpetrate this scam.

Only a fool would have assumed that the Bounce Back Loan was a grant and as they say "A fool and his money are soon parted"

 

[Mark T Jones]

Here is what you actually need to know

Several large accounting firms have departments set up contracted to the Government to investigate 'irregularities' in BBL applications. It's pretty much a given that they will pay no attention to people who are paying, if you don't pay, you will certainly come to their attention and they might choose to investigate.

Insolvency law has changed - if your application or the circumstances of your insolvency are suspicious you might well find yourself being personally liable as a director (that applies to all debt, not just BBL)

In consumer law "I'm too thick to understand" can sometimes work as a defence. Business law works on the assumption that you have a few brain cells to be a director - playing (or being) stupid won't work

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

So what exactly happened to this BBL that the company took out which it was unable to start paying back?

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

This joker has also posted this on contractoruk.com trying to make out that a BBL was a grant which you don't have to repay.

the post was also edited by the Moderators to take out the bit that says how to rip of taxpayers

Last edited by cojak; 16 July 2021, 16:26. Reason: Took out the ‘how to rip off taxpayers’ steps.

 

[Ian J]

So what exactly happened to this BBL that the company took out which it was unable to start paying back?

How many guesses do you want?

 

[Mark T Jones]

So what exactly happened to this BBL that the company took out which it was unable to start paying back?

Another piece of mis-selling.

He assumed by 'business' they meant 'personal'.

 

[JustGettingOnWithIt]

I can only see two reasons for your motivation to post something like this.

Is it that you are looking to deliberately provoke people?

Or are you looking to take advantage of those who have businesses in trouble by collecting contacts through private message so you can take advantage of their situation?

You knew when you posted what sort of response you would get.

 

[zeus70]

As i've said before my debt has already been beein written off, the lender has claimed off the government guarantee.

if you took out the loan, without pressure and didn't care about the 100% guarantee then thats fine, you have nothing to contest.

This thread is for people who believe they were mis sold this loan, and now have no money in the bank so the only option is to close it down and force the lender to claim off the government. Once they know they can win, as others now have, they wont cave in too easily by the debt collectors.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Just in case anybody fancies joining in this little wheeze, here are some facts.

1. Nobody had been miss sold anything, because nobody was sold anything.

BBL was made available, publicised- with easy access to all the salient facts - it was down to the applicant to apply. There is zero correlation between that and PPI

2. Nobody believes the OP. The bank and their collections people have humoured them whilst gathering sufficient evidence to claim the guarantee and shift the problem elsewhere

3. The OP hasn't got away with it.

Their case is currently with some one whose sole job is to investigate BBL defaults . And whose goal is to recover monies by holding the individuals responsible.

They are also looking for some nice quirky test cases to deter other scammers

 

[japancool]

Not only can directors be held personally liable for the money, but they can also be disqualified as directors.

 

[zeus70]

HMRC need to provide an update every quarter, so lets wait and see how much BBL they write off. According to your logic, this should be close to zero, as they have teams investigating everyone. But truth is, HMRC know they coerced people to borrow and therefore will write many billions off. Next update will be once we know this initial figure, until then, lets see how many HMRC supports come online to throw abuse around.

 

[Mark T Jones]

HMRC need to provide an update every quarter, so lets wait and see how much BBL they write off. According to your logic, this should be close to zero, as they have teams investigating everyone. But truth is, HMRC know they coerced people to borrow and therefore will write many billions off. Next update will be once we know this initial figure, until then, lets see how many HMRC supports come online to throw abuse around.

It will be huge - which is why they are investing heavily in chasing what they can

 

[zeus70]

anyone mis sold the loans, will just state that once chased. this is the argument they will use with lender, debt collector and HMRC and at the end of the process HMRC will need to decide whether to write off the loan. no one is saying do anything outside of the process.

 

[Ian J]

anyone mis sold the loans,

As you have already been told no-one sold you anything as it was up to you to apply for the loan if you felt that you met the criteria and without putting too fine a point on it only the terminally stupid would miss understand what was on offer.

The scheme was run by the British Business Bank and this is what they said on their website:-

How BBLS worked

BBLS was available through a range of accredited lenders and partners.

A lender could provide a six-year term loan from £2,000 up to 25% of a business’ turnover. The maximum loan amount was £50,000.

The scheme gave the lender a full (100%) government-backed guarantee against the outstanding balance of the facility (both capital and interest).

The borrower always remained fully liable for the debt.

 

[Ian J]

As a contractor I'm guessing that you also furloughed yourself

 

[Mr D]

HMRC need to provide an update every quarter, so lets wait and see how much BBL they write off. According to your logic, this should be close to zero, as they have teams investigating everyone. But truth is, HMRC know they coerced people to borrow and therefore will write many billions off. Next update will be once we know this initial figure, until then, lets see how many HMRC supports come online to throw abuse around.

They will write some off.
However the nice easy low hanging fruit are easy targets. That would appear to be you.


HMRC appear to not know that people were coerced to borrow. In no documentation I've come across has there been even a hint of that.

 

[zeus70]

i'll update the thread once HMRC publish write off figures. until then lets hope people read this thread fully, and if applicable, challenge lender, hmrc and debt collector until it gets written off.

 

[MarkOnline]

i'll update the thread once HMRC publish write off figures. until then lets hope people read this thread fully, and if applicable, challenge lender, hmrc and debt collector until it gets written off.

Can you explain why you believe that the BBL scheme was a grant rather than a borrowing facility?

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

i'll update the thread once HMRC publish write off figures.

there are genuine fails with BBL where the Directors have used the BBL to prop up the business and then there are fails as a result of Directors fraudenrtly applying for BBL and then fleecing the company.

Legislation has been bought in to counter the latter and applies restrrosoectively even you have managed to get to get your company struck off and the guarantee has-been invoked.

 

[zeus70]

legistation already existed for hmrc to restore a company - so this is actually nothing new. HMRC know they need to write off all these loans, and this is just a way for them to say "we did all we could". lets just wait for write off figures before throwing any more insults. if this thread even helps 1 person than its been worth it.

 

[Ian J]

if this thread even helps 1 more scammer then its been worth it.

EFA

 

[zeus70]

so you think everyone that cannot afford to pay back BBL due to covid is a scammer? this is exactly the reason why i created this thread.... you just want people punished for what effectively is the result of covid. stop being bitter and cheer up. maybe even help someone.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

legistation already existed for hmrc to restore a company - so this is actually nothing new. H

that was via the expensive Court Order route. After restoration they still had to appoint a Liquidator to investigate the actions of the Directors.

The new Legislation sidesteps all of that and lets the Insolvency Service investigate direct.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...businesses-abusing-covid-19-financial-support

 

[Mark T Jones]

The only question on my mind after this thread is what percentage of you is crook and what percentage idiot

The fact that you can write fairly lucid sentences undermines your pretence that you don't understand what a loan is.

On the other hand everything else you write does show a stunning lack of basic knowledge and awareness.

I suppose we will always be wondering.

 

[zeus70]

If you don't think the BBL was mis sold then you would pay it back - that doesn't change.

If however you believe the BBL was mis sold, have no money in the bank, then you have the option of challenging the lender, debt collection agency, hmrc and even the insolvency service. We have the power to fight and make the gov use their 100% guarantee promise. HMRC has always used fear to make people comply due to limited resources. this new legislation is no different to previous ones - make people fearful so they dont challenge a wrongdoing, but this wont work as other scandals have shown like PPI. When people and companies companies together they can beat HMRC even with this new legislation. 100% guarantee has to mean just that..... otherwise why plaster it all over the internet and tv \papers. plenty of evidence available now that this was marketed to coerce people, to provide unfair lending, to make people take more than they can afford. why else change the vetting process? People are no longer scared to take on HMRC or the insolvency agency- even though you may think posted that would make them fearful.