client trying to pull a swift one - anything we can do?

[jklondon]

My other half runs a childcare agency, she has come across a situation where it *seems* the client has taken on a nanny she has provided but is claiming she has taken on a nanny from someone else. The contracts are bilateral between the parent and nanny not via the agency which acts as an introducer.

Of course this is based on strong gut feeling but opens up some fundamental issues i.e. how could you prove this either way and would could she do to protect herself from this occurring in the future if anything?

Interested on legal opinions and also others who might have had similar experiences.

You help is appreciated!

JK

 

[Coppock]

Sooo.... your wifes agency introduced a client to a nanny, the client appears to be using the nanny but said something like "oh i've gone with someone else" so you will avoid claiming your fee (or commission whatever).

I'd try to prove that the client is using the nanny, I'm not into private investigators, maybe just phone call checks when you think the nanny might be there?

If your evidence shows that the client is using the nanny then you're probably best seeking legal advice regarding what contracts you have with the nannys, maybe send a letter saying "We understand this client has appointed you, here's your invoice, please pay within X days".

I'm no legal expert, but you should make sure that all contracts and agreements you make with your nannys have a clause where they pay a fee or commission if they take these arrangements.

The only other way I can think of working it is that you make clients pay you, you pay the nanny.

Good luck!

 

[Fuzzy]

I used to own a Nanny Agency so I know how your other half feels. Not much you can do unless your T&C's are water-tight tbh, and then you have to prove it. I would put your/her efforts into getting your T&C's drawn up via a solicitor and stating that fees will have to be paid if Client/Nanny do the dirty, may put them off trying

 

[jklondon]

I used to own a Nanny Agency so I know how your other half feels. Not much you can do unless your T&C's are water-tight tbh, and then you have to prove it. I would put your/her efforts into getting your T&C's drawn up via a solicitor and stating that fees will have to be paid if Client/Nanny do the dirty, may put them off trying

Hi- the annoying thing here is that the T&C are very tight but its an issue of proving it. I guess a private investigator would be one option but seems a little far fetched ..and im thinking expensive!

 

[Homshaw]

Know nothing at all about nanny agencies but would have thought

1) It is reasonable to ask the client which agency provided the nanny

and

2) It is in all agencies interests to co-operate in confirming that they provided and are being paid for the placement

If the client refused to provide the information I would threaten then issue a small claims court summons

 

[Coppock]

I don't think a private investigator would be too expensive, always worth getting a quote. The other option is to "set up" that nanny, get a friend to apply as a client, do the usual meet etc, then get your friend to try and coax her to go direct without the agency. At least then you can make a decision whether to keep the nanny on your books or not, and then there's always the "play the bluff" option, in which case you can say that you know they've been nannying for the other client etc.

I'd always check with a PI though, unless you fancy buying some doughnuts and staking out the house yourself

 

[yorkshirejames]

The only other way I can think of working it is that you make clients pay you, you pay the nanny.

Good luck!

Doing this would be a whole different ballgame, and more than likely they would need to register as an employment business.

Re the issue at hand - I would sent them the invoice and see what they do. I think it is fair to say that by definition if they can afford a nanny they can afford to pay the introducer a couple of thousand. Hopefully the husband will receive the invoice and think it is too much hassle to argue it.

 

[SarahCollins]

I wouldn't have thought it mattered.

At the end of day, your wife's agency introduced this nanny to the parent. It doesn't matter whether she eventually came from somewhere else. But I think you're right with your suspicions. It's like finding the house of your dreams by an estate agent's board and then the owner cooking up a story to get rid of the estate agent to avoid paying the fee.

What do you have in your T&Cs about this? Have you covered this contingency?

I would bill them with a request to know the name of the agency they used as you 'require your nannies to register only with you and no-one else to avoid this exact problem". Leave it up to them to provide you with the proof that it isn't so.

And revise your T&Cs to avoid this happening in the future.

 

[Rainbow Chasers']

I think the best way forward would be to use the template that recruitment agencies do - where an 'Employer' cannot take the agency staff on in employment before 12 weeks - theory being that you are in profit by then anyway.

This could boost trade as well, as they would go to you rather than advertise, as they have a 12 week test drive! You make your money, they test their nanny! You often find, as with agencies, the employer will go through quite a few before finding one they wish to offer a job to!

 

[FLAUK]

Are you members of the REC?

If so they should be able to advise.

 

[Deliberator]

Tricky one this, I operate in the same manner within a different sector.

I have to say that it's not happenend to me, that I know of in 10 yrs, so I've been extraordinarily lucky.

I think this is down to the basics and not so much the Ts&Cs. Take my way of doing things as a guideline - I hope I don't sound patronising nor rude, it's how I do it and it works;

The client calls me for some cover. I find the right person for the position, tell that person what the job is and where, but not who. I do tell them who if that person is a loyal candidate proven over several placements. I call the client and tell them I have a posibility, I would then action a telephone call to the client from the candidate at a specified time, telling them the reasons why I believe this to be an ideal candidate. If the client agrees to this, I will then tell the candidate to call and not ''if you're interested, call such and such'' ! If the client won't accept a call, I won't pass on any details. As lot of my biz is repeat, my clients are 99.9% loyal thankfully - took a while to get them there but they are - I will action this call first before I agree to send out any paperwork, i.e. a CV etc..., but I could understand your clients may be first timers. If that's the case, I would find out if any other agencies are being used and if they are seeing anyone else. If they are seeing someone else, I will play it cool and tell the client that I will call them back after they have seen the other candidate.

Then I shall call back both candidate and client to see how the fone call went, and by doing all this, I have ensured pretty much that what has happened to you won't. However, if it does, I know full well that both have spoken to each other and that I made the introduction to which I would then sue !

Hope this helps, it did me.

 

[SarahDinnage]

I would want to know who sent the CV first. If it is you then you have introduced them, in which case your TOB's should state that you can invoice if they take that person on within a set amount of time (usually 12 weeks). If the other agency sent first..and it can happen then you have to let it go.

Just email or call her asking who sent the CV first and can she prove it by forwarding a copy of when she rec the emails.

 

[Deliberator]

I would want to know who sent the CV first. If it is you then you have introduced them, in which case your TOB's should state that you can invoice if they take that person on within a set amount of time (usually 12 weeks). If the other agency sent first..and it can happen then you have to let it go.

Just email or call her asking who sent the CV first and can she prove it by forwarding a copy of when she rec the emails.

Yes but she can easily get out of that one by saying the other agency sent it first !! How can you prove that she didn't ?

 

[SarahDinnage]

Assuming she got both CV's via email. Ask her to print the emails from the agencies out. It will clearly say the date and time sent. If she can prove the other agency or person applied first.job done step back.

Simple. If you sent the CV first then you can claim the introduction fee. If the other party did then it's hard luck.

If you just explain that the terms are quite clear, if she takes on someone within 12 weeks of YOUR introduction she needs to pay.

However naturally if the other person sent the CV first then you wont charge. If she can't/wont send the proof then sorry but the invoice is on it's way..

She will show you then..won't want a bloomin great bill..

 

[Deliberator]

Assuming she got both CV's via email. Ask her to print the emails from the agencies out. It will clearly say the date and time sent. If she can prove the other agency or person applied first.job done step back.

Simple. If you sent the CV first then you can claim the introduction fee. If the other party did then it's hard luck.

If you just explain that the terms are quite clear, if she takes on someone within 12 weeks of YOUR introduction she needs to pay.

However naturally if the other person sent the CV first then you wont charge. If she can't/wont send the proof then sorry but the invoice is on it's way..

She will show you then..won't want a bloomin great bill..

But it's not conclusive, and the client could refuse or say that she mistakenly deleted the email........or of course, it was faxed !

 

[SarahDinnage]

Up to her to prove it as far as I can see, there seems to be some dialogue with her saying she was approached or the CV was submitted beforehand so I would just contact her explain that you have had clients who have pulled a fast one in the past and would she mind just forwarding the contact details for whomever passed on the CV to confirm it or send you copies of the documentation

If she cant prove it and you have not got signed terms then drop it.

If you have signed terms and they say she cannot take someone on within a set amount of introduction time..then see you in court.

Or..you could ask the candidate casually. Just give her a call and say you just need to confirm her record is closed as she FOJ..that all happened quickly etc..and chat about it..or get someone else to do it who can make out they don't know what is going on, they can ask who placed her there then,

Either way I would ask directly.

 

[yorkshirejames]

I would want to know who sent the CV first. If it is you then you have introduced them, in which case your TOB's should state that you can invoice if they take that person on within a set amount of time (usually 12 weeks). If the other agency sent first..and it can happen then you have to let it go.

Just email or call her asking who sent the CV first and can she prove it by forwarding a copy of when she rec the emails.

In all honesty, I wouldn't do the above (no offence).

Invoice and chase, then see what evidence they wish to produce that your invoice is invalid.

 

[SarahDinnage]

Fair point..

 

[Deliberator]

In all honesty, I wouldn't do the above (no offence).

Invoice and chase, then see what evidence they wish to produce that your invoice is invalid.

Do you not think that to prevent this happening would be the ideal thing to do, not to chase and hope that you get paid ?

Prevention is so much better than a cure !

 

[yorkshirejames]

Do you not think that to prevent this happening would be the ideal thing to do, not to chase and hope that you get paid ?

Prevention is so much better than a cure !

Prevention is a separate issue, and I'm sure the OP has learned going forwards.

If you say to them "well actually I was wondering whether you could give us some proof over whether it was us or the other agency who introduced this person" what do you think they'll say or do"!

 

[Deliberator]

Prevention is a separate issue, and I'm sure the OP has learned going forwards.

If you say to them "well actually I was wondering whether you could give us some proof over whether it was us or the other agency who introduced this person" what do you think they'll say or do"!

You mean apart from getting their back up immediately ? I suspect that if they want to hide the fact they're trying to pull a fast one, nothing !