China stocks are crashing - will we follow?

Looking at this chart (Crescat Capital newsletter) that places the NASDAQ Golden Dragon Index against the S&P 500, one sees how US stocks tend to show the same or very similar behavior, albeit a few months later.

Over the past few months, China indexes have more or less halved. Since the C19 shock, the S&P went from 2,400 to 4,400 and is still going gang-busters.


Picture19-8.png


That specific China index has since had a bit of a dead-cat-bounce around 10,000 as speculators assume that it has reached the bottom and is now seeming to bounce off a $11k floor.

The Fed continues to prop up the US market with the purchase of $200bn in company bonds every month, all generated by QE. But if US share prices halve as they did in the three years following the 2000 dot-com bubble deflating and in the 18 months following the 2007 CDO crisis, then the FTSE 100 will pretty much follow suit.

The banking crisis saw house prices in the UK fall from £190k on average to £155k. The dot-com bust of 2000 did not affect house prices - in fact, quite the opposite: when that bubble burst there was a flight to quality and houses were seen as quality investments.

US inflation remains a worry. Officially at 5.4%, Shadow-Stats puts it at 13.5%. Even the official CPI figure is a big jump from 0% when the C19 virus reared its' head in 2020. Professor Steve Hanke (John Hopkins University, Baltimore) states that 9% is already baked into the system and QE continues to feed that trend.

Interesting times - as they say!
 
And how much of this has been caused by Chinese regulators cracking down on the tech sector?
I'll turn that around - how come the S&P 500 and the NADAQ and the FTSE 100 are going Buzz Lightyear when we have had draconian data control restrictions, new Brexit problems with associated import and export controls, green measures and rules and bureaucracy gone mad? At the same time, Amazon and Google and others are facing all kinds of controls and restrictions in Europe and at home in the US.

I'm in the office today, Sunday, because we have to wade through a thousand forms and rules just so that someone can get on a plane and fly to Berlin in a few days' time.

The question we must ask ourselves is - Was a China Golden Dragon Index at $21k just hysteria and true value lies far below that figure, possibly below $10k, and is the S&P 500 at $4,500 as much hysteria and is the true value below $2k? What happens when the music stops?
 
Upvote 0

Karimbo

Free Member
  • Nov 5, 2011
    2,699
    1
    360
    China got the delta variant and they're imposing lockdown all over. Delta variant is more contageous than any other varient and china tried to lockdown to avoid it. Hopefully it will wash through their population and be back in business in 3-6 months from now.

    Get your christmas orders in people. It will be difficult to get stock in for christmas!
     
    Upvote 0

    JEREMY HAWKE

    Business Member
  • Business Listing
    Mar 4, 2008
    8,612
    1
    4,049
    EXETER DEVON
    www.jeremyhawkecourier.co.uk
    Brye When things are bad I have always done well
    When things have been good I dont do so well
    I am a person that takes my eye off the ball when things are good
    You will look back on here and see that I said that it is important to be at your best at the beginning of the pandemic . Some luck in our industry and me being on top of things has helped
    When things are good I fall asleep
    I was built for a crisis :)
     
    • Like
    Reactions: The Byre
    Upvote 0

    japancool

    Free Member
  • Jul 11, 2013
    9,740
    1
    3,448
    Leeds
    japan-cool.uk
    Not to mention high shipping costs are putting buyers off from buying Chinese goods.

    As to why Western stocks are rising despite tech "crackdowns" - these have been known about for years and factored in.

    Western economies are opening up. By contrast, China's zero-Covid strategy is (like Australia) looking like it's untenable in the face of the Delta variant, and there are serious concerns over the effectiveness of Chinese-made vaccines.
     
    Upvote 0
    How many companies across the western world are bringing some of their purchases home to make life easier and have more control
    imports-change-non-china-vs-china.png

    After the Trumpian hissy-fit in 2019, growth in exports to the US from China continues unabated. The export of high-value manufactured goods such as phones and cameras, white goods and industrial and agricultural equipment continues to grow significantly.

    China is facing growing competition from Vietnam and India.
     
    Upvote 0

    JustGettingOnWithIt

    Free Member
    Jul 13, 2020
    79
    22
    What happens when the music stops?

    I don't know and I don't think anyone else can predict with any detail and accuracy either. The problem is so vast and complex, nobody will have a true idea of the fall out. Something will give eventually. Predicting when isn't easy either. This year, next year, 5 years?

    I think that people are personally preparing in any way they can quietly, for an adjustment. I was in an antiques market yesterday and I overheard two traders talking about the sources of their goods for resale. Both were agreeing that the better quality collectable items aren't around any more in good quantity and they are having to settle for lower quality, less margin pieces.

    The thing I take from that is people are keeping hold of things of value where they can, the value of cash is decreasing. Inflation is up, up up and it is happening now, even before any bubble pops.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: The Byre
    Upvote 0

    Chris Ashdown

    Free Member
  • Dec 7, 2003
    13,389
    3,006
    Norfolk
    Upvote 0
    I don't know and I don't think anyone else can predict with any detail and accuracy either. The problem is so vast and complex, nobody will have a true idea of the fall out. Something will give eventually. Predicting when isn't easy either. This year, next year, 5 years?
    One of my standard joke lines is to say that as an economist, I can predict anything, absolutely anything - except of course the future. Nobody can predict the future and only a fool tries!
     
    Upvote 0

    IanSuth

    Free Member
    Business Listing
    Apr 1, 2021
    3,441
    2
    1,499
    National
    www.simusuite.com
    One of my standard joke lines is to say that as an economist, I can predict anything, absolutely anything - except of course the future. Nobody can predict the future and only a fool tries!

    Yes - my final year degree project was on whether there was a relationship between UK Base rates and unemployment rates and if so what was the lag. My conclusion was that it was impossible to conclude 1 way or the other as it depended on the granularity of the data, if you were imprecise enough you could always spot an apparent correlation but that didnt show causation
     
    • Like
    Reactions: The Byre
    Upvote 0

    Latest Articles

    Join UK Business Forums for free business advice