Cheap website - SiteBuilder vs. Office Live vs. Template

[ColinL]

I need to establish a website quickly and cheaply. I have read with interest relevant threads on this and understand that in terms of presenting a professional image and having a site that is SEO friendly - there is no proper substitute for a professional job.

However, for a local business not dependent on web marketing that needs a site which looks OK and provides some info etc. I'm interested how MS Office compares against the sitebuilder offerings from say 123-Reg and 1&1. Or would a template be better. I guess the criteria would be looks, usability and google friendliness (yes, perhaps I have contradicted myself!).

Many thanks

 

[streetslocal]

Hello,
PM sent

Look at www.streetslocalnet.com

 

[Peter Bowen]

What about using wordpress. It's a blog platform but works well as a cheap and easy content management system - (this means that it's easy to add content to your site.)

 

[streetslocal]

But would wordpress allow a top quality site you would want your clients to see?

 

Yes if you get the right theme. It's cheap, easy to use. If he needed it branded he could get it done cheaply enough even if it is just a header.

 

[streetslocal]

Yes if you get the right theme. It's cheap, easy to use. If he needed it branded he could get it done cheaply enough even if it is just a header.

But again a very basic poor looking website?

And does not look easier compared to a site builder?Where really you can do no wrong.

 

But again a very basic poor looking website?

Some of the best websites on the net now are wordpress. It's an outstanding piece of software.

 

[streetslocal]

Some of the best websites on the net now are wordpress. It's an outstanding piece of software.

But not the easiest when it comes to a web novice,hence why they have released a book about it...

 

Wordpress gets my quote, beats any of the site builders I've looked at.

 

But not the easiest when it comes to a web novice,hence why they have released a book about it...

I'd need a novel to use your site builder when I looked at it earlier.

 

[jdpos]

All site builder's arn't as good as one that is built by a pro website builder with experience and great customer relations. You want to go with a pro web builder to get the easiest, best and most valued website.

 

I'd need a novel to use your site builder when I looked at it earlier.

teehee... meeeooowwww!

A book about wordpress means nothing, I was in Borders and noticed a BOOK, yes A BOOK about the iphone! The thing has only just come out. Then saw a book about facebook! Bejesus!

 

[Dawg]

Even Wordpress.com, which is free, allows a decent looking site. You can have a static page as the landing page, a custom header is not difficult to do or organise, it is updateable, search engine friendly, and for a small fee you can use your own domain name. My blog is Dawgblog.co.uk not dawgblog.wordpress.co.uk: that costs $10.00.
The only thing it can't do, that is useful for a small business brochure site, is embed a Google map with the zoom facilities etc.
I think it's a great way into having a brochure site. It is the way things are moving with one new member here, Interconnect, specializing in adapting Wordpress in a very cool and highly sophisticated way.

 

[streetslocal]

I believe my site builder is easy to navigate and understand with a simple to use interface at the bottom of the page allowing simple navigation.

www.streetslocalnet.com has recieved postive feedback about the ease of use.

 

[streetslocal]

Even Wordpress.com, which is free, allows a decent looking site. You can have a static page as the landing page, a custom header is not difficult to do or organise, it is updateable, search engine friendly, and for a small fee you can use your own domain name. My blog is Dawgblog.co.uk not dawgblog.wordpress.co.uk: that costs $10.00.
The only thing it can't do, that is useful for a small business brochure site, is embed a Google map with the zoom facilities etc.
I think it's a great way into having a brochure site. It is the way things are moving with one new member here, Interconnect, specializing in adapting Wordpress in a very cool and highly sophisticated way.

Definition: 1. knowledgeable and cultured: knowledgeable about the ways of the world, self-confident, and not easily deceived

2. suitable for sophisticated people: appealing to or frequented by sophisticated people

3. advanced: complex, advanced, and very up-to-date


So looking at this it is either advanced?
Or for sophiscated people?

What about the average user?

 

[Dawg]

Definition: 1. knowledgeable and cultured: knowledgeable about the ways of the world, self-confident, and not easily deceived

2. suitable for sophisticated people: appealing to or frequented by sophisticated people

3. advanced: complex, advanced, and very up-to-date


So looking at this it is either advanced?
Or for sophiscated people?

What about the average user?

I'm sorry, I'm missing the point here. Why have you defined these words? What point is it you are making?

And what do you mean by "it is either advanced"?

Have you written a book about it, so I can catch on?

 

[Peter Bowen]

All site builder's arn't as good as one that is built by a pro website builder with experience and great customer relations. You want to go with a pro web builder to get the easiest, best and most valued website.

Building a website from scratch these days makes about as much sense as building a car by hand. It might be fun for a hobby but the expense can't be justified commercially because a wordpress or site builder or whatever tool you use site is probably going to do the job as well as a hand made site at way less cost.

You could get a decent wordpress theme customized for £100. I guess you can't buy too many hours of pro web builder time for that.

These skills have become a commodity faster than anyone thought possible.

 

[jdpos]

Building a website yourself when you have a business to run wouldn't work very good. If you got a pro designer to make it then you can guarantee it will be perfect andyou are paying for the service apart from the site.

Building a website from scratch these days makes about as much sense as building a car by hand. It might be fun for a hobby but the expense can't be justified commercially because a wordpress or site builder or whatever tool you use site is probably going to do the job as well as a hand made site at way less cost.

You could get a decent wordpress theme customized for £100. I guess you can't buy too many hours of pro web builder time for that.

These skills have become a commodity faster than anyone thought possible.

 

[awebapart.com]

However, for a local business not dependent on web marketing that needs a site which looks OK and provides some info etc. I'm interested how MS Office compares against the sitebuilder offerings from say 123-Reg and 1&1. Or would a template be better. I guess the criteria would be looks, usability and google friendliness (yes, perhaps I have contradicted myself!).

It is horses for courses, there are many ways for non-technical people to create their own website nowadays.

there is no proper substitute for a professional job.

But don't be fooled into thinking that having one custom made by a professional is always going to be better, since anyone can call themselves a professional web designer - again for the simple reason that anyone can create their own website nowadays.

Whilst anyone can create a website, only really experienced software engineers and web development professionals can create a good sitebuilder system which allows novices to create websites, so don't think that there aren't professionals behind sitebuilders.

With 1and1 there are online demos so you can try the sitebuilder first, if you go with 1and1 I recommend that you use a .co.uk domain, since the hosting is in Germany and as such having a .com wouldn't be good for UK searches.

123-reg instant site shows you what the possible templates are, and there are some aimed at finance, accounting, book-keeping etc. The instant site templates look good because they have professional photography designed into the template design. Whilst 123-reg don't have an online demo of their sitebuilder, it is the same sitebuilder used by heartinternet.co.uk (website builder plus) which does have an online demo, and the original sitebuilder developers are swsoft.com and they have an online demo too.

Office live, which is a web-based sitebuilder service (not to be confused with MS Office the word processor, spreadsheet, etc package, nor Frontpage the MS web design package), does not have an online demo. You can however, buy your domain at a domain registrar, say 123-reg.co.uk, point it at the free Office Live basics account you set up for evaluation purposes, and if you don't like the system close the free account and point your domain elsewhere. Again use a .co.uk domain because the hosting is in the US.

Wordpress was also mentioned, there is a good thread on setting up a wordpress site here

I know of one member of this forum who has an Office Live website, www.exoticdetail.co.uk

I have set up for an experiment and demo, a free 123-reg instant site website at www.webdesignnorthampton.org.uk and this site is google page 1 position 10 for the competitive term web design northampton, ahead of many professsional websites designed by web design professionals (having keywords in the domain helps).

My company offers a more upmarket sitebuilder service which is customisable enough to match the existing branding and logos a company might have, and is not a DIY service since we set up the initial design after a consultation. As an example, one of our clients is google page 1 position 3 for accountants northampton, ahead of other websites that were either custom made or powered by other sitebuilder services.

 

[awebapart.com]

If you are considering just a nice looking template, bear in mind that with some templates the way they have been made to look good is to include photography, and if this is the case make sure that you have license to use the photograpy too. Unlawful use of photography can even happen with the big template providers, as this article shows.

 

[Dawg]

(Another) good post Paul.

 

[RayB]

The only thing it can't do, that is useful for a small business brochure site, is embed a Google map with the zoom facilities etc.

Here you go - have a look at this plugin for Google Maps. I have not tried it but it looks just the job

 

[Dawg]

Thanks Ray: I should have been clearer. If you use the wordpress.com free, hosted service you can't use Gmaps, as far as I know. The link you gave entails wacking the code into root/wp-content/plugins; easy enough on Wordpress.org blogs, but not on WP.com ones, where there is no access.
On this thread, about entry level website building, I was talking about the WP.com blogs as they are a very simple route into using a blogsite as a website. Those who know all about hosting, FTP, root, etc etc are cool with WP.org, but there are some who are slightly sub-geekoid, who would like a sort of plug and play version, (WP.com).
Ta anyway.

 

[RayB]

I need to establish a website quickly and cheaply. I have read with interest relevant threads on this and understand that in terms of presenting a professional image and having a site that is SEO friendly - there is no proper substitute for a professional job.

If you want a free website that is *totally* bullet proof with regards to on-site SEO and looks nice, Wordpress cannot be beaten IMO.

I have just converted our old site Weald Print Solutions over to a Wordpress as an example. It uses a free theme and is configured as a static site as opposed to a blog.

I just need to add some custom images and I'm done

Details of how I did it and the theme and plugins used to make it SEO Friendly are on this thread

 

[mr_smith]

... However, for a local business not dependent on web marketing that needs a site which looks OK and provides some info etc. I'm interested how MS Office compares against the sitebuilder offerings from say 123-Reg and 1&1. Or would a template be better. I guess the criteria would be looks, usability and google friendliness (yes, perhaps I have contradicted myself!).

Firstly, don't use 1&1 for anything - complaints are legendary about this company.

To address your question - you will never achieve the 'polished look' using msoffice - for msoffice, I'm assuming you mean Frontpage 2003 and not MSWord (if you mean Word, forget it, it's a no-go right from the outset). Frontpage is a reasonable bit of software for the novice and can be used to quickly construct a web presence however it can never produce a high enough quality end result with the supplied templates. Templates can be bought for use with Frontpage and they can offer something of a bridge to the polished end result however, having said that, there really is something of a learning curve to adapt these to your requirements. Having said that, if you are willing to learn, updating a site in Frontpage is a breeze.

Bought templates (e.g. from templatemonster.com) can most definitely provide you with the polished look of a high quality site but, again, adapting them to your needs will require the ability to edit the templates and therefore a little knowledge of coding as well as appropriate software for the job.

Instant site builders such as that provided by 123-reg can be useful for an internet novice because they require very little coding-type knowledge and allow the end-user to simply edit the text. Generally, the quality is very good. Google-wsie, they sometimes aren't quite so good but a little care with naming pages and setting out the headers and text can overcome this. There may, however, be a problem creating an xml sitemap for the search engines to access (don't worry about this - most people use appropriate software for the job).

People have also suggested using Wordpress, and it is an amazing bit of software that can be set to create Google friendly urls. There are also thousands of free and paid-for templates available as well as a plethora of plugins for various tasks (e.g. xml sitemaps, word clouds, etc.). Again, there is something of a learning curve on how to set up the software, install templates and plugins, etc. Updating and editing in Wordpress is easy.

Depending on your hosting you may be able to use Fantastico to autoinstall Wordpress for you. If you don't have this you will need to be able to do this yourself which, although not complicated, may be a little problematic if it's all completely new to you and therefore you may need to enlist some assistance.

 

[andysears]

About 1&1, they have lots of complaints because they are a huge company with many thousands of customers.

Smaller companies with say 50 customers will obviously get less complaints.

For registering domains, I have not found anyone easier or cheaper to use. DNS changes can be made and easy to use control panel.

and like I say more use them than dont.

 

[mr_smith]

About 1&1, they have lots of complaints because they are a huge company with many thousands of customers.

Nah, mate, they get lots of complaints because they are bloody awful.

For registering domains, I have not found anyone easier or cheaper to use. DNS changes can be made and easy to use control panel.

Try selling those domains in a domain market and people will want nothing to do with them just because it's one and one - that tells you a lot.

 

[andysears]

Well I can only speak from my own experience having used them for years, rather than quoting others who I dont know.

MOST domain do not sell on a domain market because they are worthless, it is strange how so many people register a domain and then think 'I know I will sell it for a £1000' get real, unless the domain is proven and with traffic, you will be lucky to get your fees back. It has nothing to do with 1&1.

Most peoples complaints I see are propblems with their credit / debit card. This is the fault of the user not 1&1, you do not geting anything for nothing so make sure you have money in your account before charging to cards. Then there are those that dive in that cannot make their way around a simple control panel.

Then you have companies that charge you for web forwading, email forwading, haha again get real so so many people sucked in.

But just look at the complaints against 1&1, see how many people are actually complaining and how many are actually quoting facts.

It is the same as Internet Explorer, everyone says how bad it is and uses Firefox. (search and take a look at the threads), but fact.... take a look at webstats, and you will see it is not the case and Firefox does not even come close to the useage of IE, yet everyone uses it!

Moral of this is believe fact not the hearsay of sheep.

 

[mr_smith]

Well I can only speak from my own experience

As do I

MOST domain do not sell on a domain market because they are worthless, it is strange how so many people register a domain and then think 'I know I will sell it for a £1000' get real, unless the domain is proven and with traffic, you will be lucky to get your fees back. It has nothing to do with 1&1.

I'm talking about experienced domainers who know the markets very well and are prepared to pay decent amounts of cash for a domain name only to pull out of the sale when they discover the registrar is one and one.

Most peoples complaints I see are propblems with their credit / debit card. This is the fault of the user not 1&1, you do not geting anything for nothing so make sure you have money in your account before charging to cards. Then there are those that dive in that cannot make their way around a simple control panel.

We're not talking about a few disgruntled customers - that happens to any business - we're talking about many, many people who have been in the game for a long time who suddenly find their accounts with 1&1 frozen.

Then you have companies that charge you for web forwading, email forwading, haha again get real so so many people sucked in.

Agreed. Rip offs.

But just look at the complaints against 1&1, see how many people are actually complaining and how many are actually quoting facts.

Mate, I sent 1&1 a written letter to cancel a domain by snailmail, exactly as they requested - they claimed on the telephone it had never arrived, but by that time, having dealt with them over a period of months I was expecting just that to happen so as a precaution I sent three (3) identical written letters, all on the same day, and all posted from different towns. When I pointed this out they had to admit they had in fact, received my letters.

Moral of this is believe fact not the hearsay of sheep.

Heresay is one thing. Boatloads of people all with very similar stories about how dreadful their experience has been with a company is another! The only 'sheep' are the ones that refuse to believe them!

 

[andysears]

Perhaps you should have used, http://contract.1and1.co.uk/ where you can cancel your domain, either immediately or at end of billing.

You sent a letter, that did not get a response, this is the same for the majority of major companies. If I refused to use a company that did not answer the phone or answer a letter, then i would not have phone line, gas, electricty, water, refuse collection the lst goes on.

Serious domainers would not give a stuff who the registra was, I myself have been moving domain names around for over 10 years, only one problem I can remember was with BT.

The point I was making was just what you have written, the 'I know many people' that would not use 1&1, but then.. I know many people that will... and do, but then that would be the case as they have 9 million domains registered with them, and 2.5 million websites hosted with them, if they were that bad, they would not have those customers.

There seems so much drivel and not enough facts that when new people ome on here asking for advice, they are led up a path into obscurity. lets have some proper advice, rarther than....

OOoh dont go near them..

and

I agree with that

and

good answer

 

[mr_smith]

Perhaps you should have used, http://contract.1and1.co.uk/ where you can cancel your domain, either immediately or at end of billing.

Perhaps it was only through the vociferous complaints from many, many webmasters like myself that they actually introduced that system. It hasn't been in place that long ~ 2years. When I dealt with them prior to this they refused to cancel any domains unless they had it in writing - via snailmail! Emails, telephone calls - nadda. It had to be in writing by snailmail.

You sent a letter, that did not get a response, this is the same for the majority of major companies. If I refused to use a company that did not answer the phone or answer a letter, then i would not have phone line, gas, electricty, water, refuse collection the lst goes on.

You either didn't understand what I wrote or are deliberately obfusticating - the point is that the telephone 'support' at their head office (where I sent the written letters via snailmail) pretended they hadn't received my letter - but I was one step ahead of them, having sent 3 identical letters at the same time, specifically to deal with the 'we didn't get your letter' garbage I knew they would try. It doesn't say much for them, imo.

Serious domainers would not give a stuff who the registra was

Is that right? Go to Namepros.com and tell them you want to sell a domain reg'd with 1&1 - see what kind of response you get.

There seems so much drivel and not enough facts that when new people ome on here asking for advice, they are led up a path into obscurity. lets have some proper advice, rarther than....

OOoh dont go near them..

Mate, the only drivel and poor advice I can see is coming from you who seems to be intent on unreserved cheerleading for 1&1 while poo-poo'ing anyone (and there are many) who has found out to their often considerable cost and inconvenience that this company is best avoided. They suck in unsuspecting people through their heavy advertising, not because they have a good reputation. They are a dreadful company to deal with and the complaints about them are legendary on many webmaster and domain name forums.

 

[andysears]

no unreserved cheerleading here, all I am saying is that so many give no reason for saying a company is poor, and that I have had no problems with them whatsoever.

In another post you state godaddy are good... others think not,


http://nodaddy.com/

http://forevergeek.com/articles/godaddy_sucks.php

123reg?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/05/123reg_backups/

http://simonwillison.net/2007/Nov/18/uk/

http://avoid123reg.mydisk.co.uk/


The reasons for this are like anything, people love BAD, they will moan about anything and everything, they see negative in everything. Very very rarely someone may actually say something positive.

You can always be sure the more customers the more complaints. 2% of a 1000 customers complaining does not look too bad, 20 people going ape on message boards will hardly be noticed.

Now 2% of 7,000,000 customers looks pretty abysmal with 140,000 going ape.

But in reality one has 6.8million satisfied customers as opposed to 980.

Go figure.

 

[mr_smith]

no unreserved cheerleading here, all I am saying is that so many give no reason for saying a company is poor, and that I have had no problems with them whatsoever.

In another post you state godaddy are good... others think not,

123reg?

I said Godaddy and 123-reg were good for registering domains.