Charity Shops

[Banned]

I'm not saying charity shops are perfect.. I'm just saying that the reaction to some of them is a bit harsh. If you really want to solve the problem then get the great British Public to donate enough to charities that shops become unnecessary .. I think you'll find most charities don't run shops for fun

I don't think it's the shops we are objecting to per-say, but their unfair rate relief. I have no problem at all with the shops and their staff, and I wouldn't personally want to go through all the yucky stuff that is left on their doorstep (then again for free stock....).

What we want is a level playing field for all retailers, regardless of where a percentage of the bottom line goes.

 

[Banned]

Except of course that isn't going to happen.

Well no, there is that!

 

Maybe not, but because of their unfair advantage they are taking business away from other retailers by selling those cards cheaper. Unlike charity shops retailers rely on the Christmas trade to finance January and February when sales are generally low but overheads remain the same.

Well don't you think it would be good for the country to get rid of more retailers who could then go and get a proper job making something of value to the economy just like the Chinese do.

I mean flogging bits and pices to each other is only going to end up one way.

Ooops it already has.

Earl

 

[MarkMandel]

Donations are down as shoppers flee the annoying town centre chuggers.

and not because of any retailers - bad customer service, poor merchandising, bad buying, failure to move with the times, poor management, un-trained staff, e-commerce, m-commerce etc. No it was Charity Shops and Chuggers that killed high street retail, I didn't realise that until I read this thread.

 

[Banned]

Well don't you think it would be good for the country to get rid of more retailers who could then go and get a proper job making something of value to the economy just like the Chinese do.

I mean flogging bits and pices to each other is only going to end up one way.

Ooops it already has.

Earl

Have we not been there and done that on the whole manufacturing and exporting business, and generally failed? Why would it work better a second time around?

And and and, wait, and, who's going to be selling all these things we are making without retailers? I know - Tesco

 

[Banned]

Chuggers that killed high street retail, I didn't realise that until I read this thread.

Stand in a High Street and watch the movement patter of people change when chuggers turn up - they do cost retailers a lot of lost sales.

 

[Malchy Dorris]

Why are you guys beating up on the charities rather than where the real problem lays - with the council / government who made the decision to give the rates relief?

Charity shops are not direct competition to every shop on the high street so it's amusing to see every type of retailer up in arms about charity shops getting rates relief.

The problem for most retailers is having to pay the high rates - which is fair enough because it's tough out there! But don't blame the charity shops for that!!! Take the argument up with the council or government over the high rates that you have to pay rather than beating up on the charities because someone decided that they don't have to pay.

Having said that, i do agree that where a charty decides to sell new stock and therefore becomes a direct competitor to even one or a few local businesses, then they should be made to play on a level playing field regarding rates. But again that lays at the council / goverment's door. If no one is stopping the charities selling new stock (or charging rates if they do) then why on earth would you expect them to stop?

 

Have we not been there and done that on the whole manufacturing and exporting business, and generally failed? Why would it work better a second time around?

And and and, wait, and, who's going to be selling all these we are making without retailers? I know - Tesco

Oh I am not saying it would succeed,there are far to many people earning a nice screw the easy was for them to bother with manufacturing.

But the wealth of a nation is its production not its bartering ability.

Earl

 

[Banned]

Oh I am not saying it would succeed,there are far to many people earning a nice screw the easy was for them to bother with manufacturing.

But the wealth of a nation is its production not its bartering ability.

Earl

Here's an interesting thought, well I think so, if manufacturing and exporting were still leading the way in the UK would all these charities be manufacturing and exporting and getting the same tax breaks?

Also can you imagine if the likes of Vodafone (first large UK success I can come up with off the top off my head) were a charity. How much of their money would be going back into the economy?

A great many charities take from the economy without giving anything back, how does that help the UK in these difficult times?

That may all be bollox of course as it's just occurred to me, so I'm happy to be corrected :redface:

 

[Malchy Dorris]

A great many charities take from the economy without giving anything back, how does that help the UK in these difficult times?

So where does all the money they take in go then? And what about all the actual charity work they do on the ground for whatever it is they do?

 

[Banned]

So where does all the money they take in go then? And what about all the actual charity work they do on the ground for whatever it is they do?

I was hoping you would tell me. Those that send it overseas, don't pay staff, rates etc, I fail to see what the contribute to the UK economy. Apart from those at the top on six figure salaries of course.

 

I was hoping you would tell me. Those that send it overseas, don't pay staff, rates etc, I fail to see what the contribute to the UK economy. Apart from those at the top on six figure salaries of course.

Well for the less well off to be able to buy things at affordable prices on one side and using money for things like this:

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/

Seems like a good idea to me

Mind you if various governments did not squander our money on hair brained schemes ( like the latest round of nonsense ) or feathering there mates nests.

We may not need charity shops.

Earl

 

[captaincloser]

How many retailers actually know the first thing about retailing ? If they did they would not have the time, the energy or the inclination to worry about a street full of charity shops.

Your angst is actually about your own inability to sell in todays market place...unfortunately the charity shop down the road is a sitting target for your angst but has nothing to do with your own inability to adapt to circumstances.

Either get an education on the retail sector or get out of retailing..but either way get off that bar stool and stop moaning.

 

[captaincloser]

duplictae post

 

[internetspaceships]

Here's one to throw a spanner in the works.

How can it be right that if a charity can afford to buy the retail premises they operate in they can still get rates relief at 100%?

 

Here's one to throw a spanner in the works.

How can it be right that if a charity can afford to buy the retail premises they operate in they can still get rates relief at 100%?

Well thats pretty easy to answer:

char·i·ty

   [char-i-tee] Show IPA
noun, plural -ties. 1. generous actions or donations to aid the poor, ill, or helpless: to devote one's life to charity.

2. something given to a person or persons in need; alms: She asked for work, not charity.

3. a charitable act or work.

4. a charitable fund, foundation, or institution: He left his estate to a charity.

5. benevolent feeling, especially toward those in need or in disfavor: She looked so poor that we fed her out of charity.

Earl

 

[internetspaceships]

Aye so they are making enough spondulies to be able to afford to buy properties outright, but can't be charged rates.


Great scam eh.

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

None of us shop owners actually want to pay rates or rent probably; I'm sure we would all love to have been given free premises with no outgoings so that we could build our empires, but obviously it's not going to happen, and why should it?
It is our responsibility as a shop owner to ensure that we stock what people want to buy, and sell it at a price they are willing and able to pay.
If we get it wrong (and I know probably do on a regular basis unfortunately) then it's nobody's fault but ours. We can't blame it on the charity shop up the road. It's tough, but that's it.
It is our responsibility to keep our eyes on the competition, whether they are other chops or charity shops, and make sure we compete with them on price if we're selling the same stuff, or we sell something different.
It wouldn't be right for councils to take an "income" in the form of rates from a charity shop when the staff work there for nothing in order to raise as much money as they can for the charity.
We have a charity shop 3 doors away from us and they regularly take more in a day than we do;

 

[mhall]

I'm certainly not going to be taken off track by scoundrels who suggest I get educated in Retail - I am pretty good at it and we appear to be doing fine- I hope. I have worked in many Retail environments, including the charity sector before we had our own shops and I am not speaking from ignorance.

My ONLY gripe is that I do not believe they should get Rates relief if they are not what any reasonable person would say is a charity shop as we know them and that means the products they are selling.

Everything else is just bluster. I am waiting for someone to accuse me of wanting people to die because of the money I am suggesting should be taken away from charities.

 

[internetspaceships]

I completely agree with 99% of what you're saying Doodles.

However, have you done any research into what percentage of a Charity shops takings REALLY goes into the charitable causes it purports to support?

It varies from charity to charity however some of the figures are quite sad to see.

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

What DOES annoy though me is when these same charity shops, and I am talking PDSA, Oxfam, Scope etc., simply go to fairs, buy the stock and sell it at below Retail price.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind competition but when I'm competing against someone with almost zero overheads it simply is not fair. Somewhere down the line there should be a mechanism to stop Charity shops gaining this unfair advantage - and let's start with a fair rates bill.

..and of course, another supplier scrubbed of my list, this time Heaven Sends who I really did have high hopes for - vist your local PDSA and see what they are doing.

I hope there are some decent suppliers at the shows in January and February - I'm running out of people I can trust !!

Or is it just me?

I do agree with the OP though on suppliers that we buy from in good faith allowing those same goods to be sold at charity shops; this hasn't happened to us (yet!) but it would be devastating or us if they did. We use Heaven Sends ........ not often, but we do stock some of their products; we end to buy things from them and change them though so it's not so bad for us. Underhand way to do business though I think.

 

I completely agree with 99% of what you're saying Doodles.

However, have you done any research into what percentage of a Charity shops takings REALLY goes into the charitable causes it purports to support?

It varies from charity to charity however some of the figures are quite sad to see.

I remember reading that only 16% of oxfams donations got through to the needy.

Hence I only subscibe to charities I have personal knowledge of,these days.

Earl

 

[captaincloser]

I'm certainly not going to be taken off track by scoundrels who suggest I get educated in Retail - I am pretty good at it and we appear to be doing fine- I hope.

Everything else is just bluster. I am waiting for someone to accuse me of wanting people to die because of the money I am suggesting should be taken away from charities.

You want people to die ? No you don't... I take your point of course, its wrong if they are serously disrupting trade and selling new stuff is certaily against the spirit. I accept that.

By the way how can I be a scoundrel on top of everything else ?...Only yesterday on here I was called a vulture... I don't have enough costumes for all these new titles...

 

[Steve Sellers]

A bit late to this party but here is my tuppence-

Why are retailers complaining about rate relief for charity shops? Rate relief or not, if the charity shops are not viable they will be closed. If they are in direct competition with you then you need to up your game. If they're not in direct competition then maybe they are filling empty shops and bringing more people into the area?

With a lot of charities much of the money is eaten up on admin and actually paying people to fund raise (I know because I have worked for 2 large national charities). There are some charities though who the vast majority of income goes direct to charitable clauses. The problem is that there are a lot of organisations who run as charities but vast swathes of them (if you imagine they are a group of companies) are non charitable, and the direct charity side is only a relatively small amount.

 

[josor]

Simple answer to this, change business status to a charity shop. Problem solved

 

[Banned]

Ooh, double post how did that happen?

 

[Banned]

How many retailers actually know the first thing about retailing ? If they did they would not have the time, the energy or the inclination to worry about a street full of charity shops.

Your angst is actually about your own inability to sell in todays market place...unfortunately the charity shop down the road is a sitting target for your angst but has nothing to do with your own inability to adapt to circumstances.

Either get an education on the retail sector or get out of retailing..but either way get off that bar stool and stop moaning.

Can we not have an opinion and debate on a subject then? Personally I no longer cross over with anything a charity shop sales. Doesn't mean I have to agree with their rate relief and unfair breaks though. Just because we don't agree with something doesn't mean we are either incapable, struggling or uneducated.

And I enjoy a good moan.

You miscreant you

 

[mhall]

A bit late to this party but here is my tuppence-

Why are retailers complaining about rate relief for charity shops? Rate relief or not, if the charity shops are not viable they will be closed. If they are in direct competition with you then you need to up your game. If they're not in direct competition then maybe they are filling empty shops and bringing more people into the area?

With a lot of charities much of the money is eaten up on admin and actually paying people to fund raise (I know because I have worked for 2 large national charities). There are some charities though who the vast majority of income goes direct to charitable clauses. The problem is that there are a lot of organisations who run as charities but vast swathes of them (if you imagine they are a group of companies) are non charitable, and the direct charity side is only a relatively small amount.

(sigh) here we go again. As i said in my very first post, if you can't be a viable charity shop with all the support you get , you must be pretty crap. It matters not whether they are in direct competition with me or not - If I can't take on a charity shop then I must be pretty crap. None of this actually affects me, I am trying to have a discussion, not a moan.

My point was simple- they should not get rates relief if they are selling standard goods and charity shops are abusing the support given them.

There was a second minor point that I would no longer deal with Heaven Sends who now sell to a particulary charity who sell stuff well below RRP. May not be the same stuff as I sell, but its certainly the same stuff as some of my competitors in town. I am not vindictive enough to say "whoopee, PDSA are going to get rid of that Competitor for me". I think it is wrong, simple as that. I understand Heaven Sends need to make dosh and have proved that they don't much care for it's current customers, but I still don't see it as being morally right...... and yes, I can afford to have both morals and ethics, thank you very much.

They are only filling up "empty shops" because of the deals they are getting - give me the same deals and I will move onto the High Street in an instance, I will happily swap my location for any of the big charity shops in town - I know for a fact that PDSA, Oxfam and Scope pay zero rates in my town and two of them get relief on rent through some Council slush fund. I don't know if the couple of small hospice shops get similar relief - if not I suppose they would be shouting about it by now

Every day we see manufacturers and transport officials bemoaning the fact that "other people" get a better deal. Only yesterday some bloke who owns a transport company had 10 minutes of BBC time because another bloke could undercut him by 15% because he came from Holland and diesel was cheaper. All he wanted was a bit more support- smaller tanks so they would have to buy diesel over here or a tax on foriegn vehicles. He could win on service and convenience, he could putthe Union Flag all over his truck and sing Rule Brittania but his point was that customers would walk for a 10% saving and run for 15%, forcing him out of business and putting more jobs on the line.

But because a Retailer mentions what I consider a similar position in our High Streets (debatable in itself, I know) I am moaning ?:|

 

[MarkMandel]

Utimately, you are asking for a tax break for High Street Retail, no matter how you cut it, shop size etc, you are asking for a tax break for Boots, Tesco, WH Smith and Sainsburys, as well as small retailers, very hard to sell in this climate. What's so special about retail?

Local councils only have limited other income, no rates money would be replaced from your shoppers, either in council tax increases or in parking increases, afterall the money would have to come from somewhere and neither of these are likely to increase spending on the high street.

There are 14.5% of empty units I really cannot see that any Charity shop is keeping any retailer out. Getting rid of rent relief would just mean less charity shops and more empty units.

As for supplier behaviour, aren't big multiples selling below RRP and a much bigger issue? Does RRP mean anything anymore apart from on Apple products?

 

[Banned]

Utimately, you are asking for a tax break for High Street Retail, no matter how you cut it, shop size etc, you are asking for a tax break for Boots, Tesco, WH Smith and Sainsburys, as well as small retailers, very hard to sell in this climate. What's so special about retail?

Nope, not sure who has asked or suggested a tax break for all. I think we have mentioned a level playing field though.

 

[MarkMandel]

They are only filling up "empty shops" because of the deals they are getting - give me the same deals and I will move onto the High Street in an instance

Nope... only move into the high street if not paying Rates.

 

[mhall]

Utimately, you are asking for a tax break for High Street Retail, no matter how you cut it, shop size etc, you are asking for a tax break for Boots, Tesco, WH Smith and Sainsburys, ?

On the contrary, I am asking for the REMOVAL of a tax break for one particular section of Retail- just what we need at the moment surely ?

 

[MarkMandel]

why stop there, they don't pay corporation tax either, perhaps we should tax that too?

You are redefining charitable to be wanting charities to have less money.

 

[Banned]

why stop there, they don't pay corporation tax either, perhaps we should tax that too?

You are redefining charitable to be wanting charities to have less money.

Yes, lets do that as well, but at the same time also make it law that charities can have all the tax breaks going providing they give 75% of their turnover directly to good causes. That would soon weed out the genuine charities from those masquerading as a one.

 

[MarkMandel]

mmmmm so Charities should pay local rates and 26% main rate corporation tax and still manage to give 75% of everything they get away, all while delivering public services without any paid employees, that should be easy. I don't think your figures add up!

You seem to have a very twisted view of charities, next time just don't pass a charity shop go in and speak to the people in there to get a broader view.

 

[Banned]

mmmmm so Charities should pay local rates and 26% main rate corporation tax and still manage to give 75% of everything they get away, all while delivering public services without any paid employees, that should be easy. I don't think your figures add up!

You seem to have a very twisted view of charities, next time just don't pass a charity shop go in and speak to the people in there to get a broader view.

Why don't you actually read my post and then reply, it moves the discussion on that way.

 

[MarkMandel]

either you want charities to have tax breaks or you don't

 

[Banned]

either you want charities to have tax breaks or you don't

You being daft on purpose :|

Simply, what's wrong with giving charities that give 75% of turnover directly to good causes 100% tax breaks. Those that don't pay the same taxes as the rest of us. This way genuine charities greatly benefit, the others that are really businesses don't.

 

[MarkMandel]

because you are making 99.9% of charities that meet your requirements anyway and more, jump through lots of hoops to catch out 0.01% that don't.

Quite why you think people who work for charities should not be paid simply does not make sense. They use volunteers as much as possible. But very few charities can operate without labour and without for example professional services like accountants who can figure out if the met this target. Why should an accountant give his services for free. Do you? Of course some will but with deadlines etc charities have to pay for services and staff just like any other organisation.

 

[mhall]

because you are making 99.9% of charities that meet your requirements anyway and more, jump through lots of hoops to catch out 0.01% that don't.

er.. if in doubt, pluck figure out of the air.