charity but not a charity ??

[jamara]

Hi UKBF people

I have just joined here after spending some time on google trying to find answers (and failing).

Perhaps a few here might offer an opinion this ??

For a few years my mother has offered a few hours each week to charity shops, the usual "W.I." type person, wanting to help out etc. - no problem with that, all in a good cause.

Over the holiday she said that she will be doing the same for a new shop which opens on 1st feb.

This new shop is where I raised my eyebrows !

It has a name on the fascia & a slogan of "helping the local community". It also has "all donations appreciated" There is no registered charity number.

I asked her about it & she said at the "interview" she was told that it isn't actually a charity but run by a husband & wife who donate a percentage of the net profit to people locally that suffer hardship. Apparently those that need help can fill in an application form which, at the end of each month, is put before a group of volunteers to decide who should be given what.

They appear to also drop bags around the estates & to my knowledge are not implying it's a charity in any way (even if the shop looks like a charity shop)

Is this legal ?
Is this morally acceptable ?
Should she help them ?

any advice much appreciated.

 

[SneakSMS]

Legal - Yes (well, I don't have a legal background but I can't see a problem with it)

Moral - Depends if they're genuinely helping the community. Registering as a charity often exempts a company from certain taxes and VAT, so by not registering, their tax contributions would be higher (not a bad thing for society, in theory). Maybe they want to do good but don't want the admin issues of being a registered charity?

Should she help them - What does she want to get out of it? A feeling of satisfaction from doing something good? That'd depend on whether they're genuinely helping. A chance to socialise? Then it doesn't really matter.

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

We have a similar shop a few doors away from us, although they are now a registered charity, for the first few years they were not.
They do genuinely help our local community here's a link to their website if you want to take a look http://www.helpinghandsintadley.org.uk/ and they are really lovely, caring people who do an awful lot of good locally.
Obviously you mum should be a bit careful with what she is prepared to give to a new organisation with no proven track record, but it is more than possible for a new venture to be every bit as credible and honest as the one in Tadley - everyone has to start somewhere!

 

[jamara]

many thanks for the quick replies

Just about the same thoughts as i had. I feel that it's a business rather than charity, but of course if the couple are dedicating their whole working week to it, I suppose they need an income just as a manager at one of the big names would.

Let's hope it all pans out OK, I just wanted to check that mum isn't getting involved in something illegal or very borderline.

much appreciated

 

[AndyBlue]

Are they a social enterprise ? This i believe is a new type of company, my friend runs one as a community cafe. They are able to get grants etc and are non profit although can take a wage. All their staff are volunteers and they are not a registered charity but provide a drop in centre and are just about to launch a job club.

I know it is hard for most people on this forum to get but they do it for the love of the community and helping - not to make money.

 

[tech365]

So, realistically they could donate 0.05% of their net profits with free labour?...WOW.

 

[jamara]

So, realistically they could donate 0.05% of their net profits with free labour?...WOW.

That might well be the case ! I have yet to see the owner or his wife arrive at work in the chauffer driven Bentley, but you never know

TBH, as long as it's legal & they aren't ripping anybody off or making false claims about the charity status, I am not going to stick my oar in. IF they make a few quid, no doubt they are working for it & somebody might get a little help they wouldn't have got otherwise.

Many thanks for all the replies, just wanted to see it from the outside a bit

 

[jamara]

Are they a social enterprise ? This i believe is a new type of company, my friend runs one as a community cafe. They are able to get grants etc and are non profit although can take a wage. All their staff are volunteers and they are not a registered charity but provide a drop in centre and are just about to launch a job club.

I know it is hard for most people on this forum to get but they do it for the love of the community and helping - not to make money.

This could be just what they do ?? interesting, it's something i have never heard of.

many thanks

 

[kelvin1950]

We have a similar shop a few doors away from us, although they are now a registered charity, for the first few years they were not.
They do genuinely help our local community here's a link to their website if you want to take a look http://www.helpinghandsintadley.org.uk/ and they are really lovely, caring people who do an awful lot of good locally.
Obviously you mum should be a bit careful with what she is prepared to give to a new organisation with no proven track record, but it is more than possible for a new venture to be every bit as credible and honest as the one in Tadley - everyone has to start somewhere!

They sell some cracking bargains in there as well! My OH is always haunting the place with her grand daughter in tow.

 

The situation the OP describes sounds unusual but quite a lot of charities have separate trading arms because trading is incompatible with their charitable objectives. The trading arms are not charities themselves usually but they covenant their profits to the charity. It certainly used to be common practice - I don't know if it still is.

 

[unet]

to be honest just because a charity has registered as a charity that does not mean it acts as a charity. People put a label on charities like they are all fluffy etc. i know tons of "charities" that are just businesses that have the bonus of tax advantages.

yes op, this company has low morals if they are acting as a charity "in the charitable sense"

 

[athanne]

Maybe they will register after a period of time. They might still be looking out for reliable people to work with them before they do that.

About your mom, charity work seems to be her calling, she definitely enjoys doing charity and that you can't change. It would be rather good to know much about her new place by discussing with her. Through this you will come to know if what they do reflects the expectations of charities (morals).

 

[workinprogress]

I worked for a "Charity" not registered or anything...It is a skate park "Ferndal Skate Park" objective is offering affordable skate boarding services for the under privelleged.

They are registered now 5 years on so maybe some businesses simply like to wait...Who wants the hastle of sending in your financial documents for someone to go over just to be a registered charity...way to much red tape

 

[SecretSauce]

It's not necessarily an issue at all; companies turning over less than 5k a year aren't eligible to register as a non-profit in the UK. They will, however, have a charities tax code with HMRC, which is an accepted way to demonstrate small charity status. Doesn't mean they aren't dodgy, OP, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are!