Ceased trading owing gas supply bills.

[rwhizza]

I need some advise.
I opened a restaurant in 2018 and started trading under a ltd company. A gas supply contract was signed under the ltd company which after a few months stopped trading and company was closed. Another business was established after a few months and we stared trading under new ltd company bit same gas contract continued. We haven't received a single bill for gas supply for last 5 years. Would we be liable for the bills if they eventually materlise considering accounts are still under ltd company which closed in 2019.

 

[Gyumri]

A similar situation would be if a supplier provided the old Ltd with lots of wine instead of gas and Newco or the directors of Newco drunk it all.

The wine company would be foolish to keep on supplying wine without bothering to ask for payment and the same goes for the gas company.

So the long and the short is that you've knowingly used the gas which the gas company must have assumed was being used by its customer, which is surely the same as if you had wired up your restaurant using another company's electricity supply!

I will leave it to others to opine about where you stand legally.

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

I've come across similar before.

A takeaway owner ran his business via a Ltd, which was dissolved due to failure to file accounts. He subsequently carried on the business as a sole trader, without informing the energy supplier. Several years later, he was in energy debt. For the debt that occurred post his Ltd being dissolved, the energy company successfully won a CCJ against him personally.

In short, I suspect the energy provider could attempt to either pursue your new Ltd or you personally for any debt that has occurred post your old company being closed.

In the example I have given, we explored an IVA to help manage this debt, but ultimately the business owner chose to remortgage his personal home.

In your case, I appreciate it is an incredibly tricky situation, as it sounds like the energy supplier is completely unaware, and trying to resolve the situation means opening your current company or yourself up to several years worth of energy debt. However, from my experience, the energy company is likely to come calling sooner or later.

Happy to offer further advice on a free consultation if you'd like to message me you're details. My instinct is that it may be best to tackle this head on, admit liability under the new company's name, and then explore debt management options, such as a payment plan or liquidating the company and starting again.

 

[WaveJumper]

So where have the gas supply company been sending the bills for 5 years, makes absolutely no sense they would let this roll on for so long without terminating the supply. I am pretty surprised they have not already come knocking, its possible they assume premises is empty however in my experience in these cases they contact the landlord to have the meter transferred to their name if not the supply is removed until a new tenant requests.

Sorry to be brutal but pretty hard to have any sympathy if yo have been consuming gas for five years and not paying for it.

 

[pentel]

The gas company will also be billing you at out of contract rates which are VERY high.

 

[japancool]

I would be asking the question - did you use the gas?

 

[DontAsk]

So where have the gas supply company been sending the bills for 5 years, makes absolutely no sense they would let this roll on for so long without terminating the supply. I am pretty surprised they have not already come knocking, its possible they assume premises is empty however in my experience in these cases they contact the landlord to have the meter transferred to their name if not the supply is removed until a new tenant requests.

Sorry to be brutal but pretty hard to have any sympathy if yo have been consuming gas for five years and not paying for it.

It happens https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1827818/energy-bill-gas-supplier-money

 

[Gyumri]

In the article quoted by @WaveJumper the debtor said: "they can't really expect me to keep trying for 18 years to see who was supplying the gas!"

It brings tears to one's eyes.

 

[WaveJumper]

Just for the record I never quoted no article ?

 

[WaveJumper]

It happens https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1827818/energy-bill-gas-supplier-money

Seems rather stupid to have kept using for gas for 18 years and not putting aside any money to pay the bill when in what eventually bound to came in.

Putting that aside I can't believe they used best endeavours to trace the meters owner. every meter has a MPAN number which can be traced?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

We had a different problem in that we had no electricity bills and tried to find out why, we had taken a new lease on a building and after about 1 year looked as to who was the supplier to avoid a massive bill later

When we searched for the meter in the online records it did not show up, we contacted the previous company who had been there for many years before and they could not supply a bill either, we contacted all local supply companies and they all replied not us.

It appeared that just before the electricity companies were broken up the company that had the lease at that time went bust and due to being a empty building no company took it over so the meter was not recorded anywhere

End result we contacted easter electricity and they came and fitted a new metre and started charging, but stated that as they had no previous contract they could not issue a bill for prior supply, so we got about 18 moths free electricity in the end by the time it was all sorted out

 

[IanSuth]

Seems rather stupid to have kept using for gas for 18 years and not putting aside any money to pay the bill when in what eventually bound to came in.

Putting that aside I can't believe they used best endeavours to trace the meters owner. every meter has a MPAN number which can be traced?

That story is a bit different though

1. they are domestic not business

2. they tried to find out and Ofgem told them to just leave it after 2 years

3. Being domestic Ofgem rules apply meaning they wont have to pay lat 18 years just last few as they had done all they could at the time

 

[N-UPS]

Move energy company.
Octopus have been cheaper than our prior.

I hate these standing charges
(which I think are paying for the energy companies that misquoted, went bust, socialised the risk and director back pocketed the profit.

 

[eteb3]

I will leave it to others to opine about where you stand legally.

Unless there’s something unusual about energy contracts (and there may be because somewhere there’s provision for a statutory contract) it is exactly like the wine situation Gyumri describes. A 19th Century case established that a new business (a publican as it happens) accepting delivery from an established supplier (of beer) without informing the supplier that the business had changed hands was liable on the contract, even though the supplier thought nothing had changed. If anyone cares enough I can try and dredge up the case. Unusually, the contract survived the mistake about the parties.

It would be for the claimant energy company to demonstrate that newco is liable for whatever they think it’s liable for. Presumably your own records, limited as they may be, are better than energy co’s, so if you make a reasonable estimate of the bill newco owes, I would think they’d have a hard time proving newco owes for oldco too

 

[Stephen Ball]

If you'd have changed the account over to the NewCo when it was established, and then the supplier hadn't billed you for 5 years, there is the backbilling protection from Ofgem whereby they'd only be able to go back 1 year (presuming you would fall into the micro-business category).

However, we wouldn't be so sure if you didn't advise the supplier of the changeover to the NewCo.

 

[WaveJumper]

I thought the back billing protection only applies to domestic supply’s

 

[Stephen Ball]

Nope it applies to micro businesses too. Here's the page on the Ofgem website:
This page won't seem to let me post the link to the Ofgem page for some reason or insert a screenshot.
If however you paste the below after the usual www. ofgem .gov.uk site, it should take you to the page:
information-consumers/energy-advice-businesses/guidance-microbusinesses

As it says customers aren't covered if they've been obstructive, then I'm not sure if the OP would be covered if they hadn't let the supplier know about the change of occuapancy into the NewCo.