CCJ for non payment of rent

[BenJacobs]

I hope this is okay to post here. I'm a business owner, and 100% of my income comes through my company. The last 6 months I've not been able to pay my residential rent to my landlord. My business income went from big figures each month to virtually zero due to lockdown. Without being served any papers or opportunity to defend myself, I received a letter from the court saying a County Court judgment has been granted against me. Its devastating. I've always kept my credit clean and my rent paid in full and in time before this. No opportunity to even defend myself. Is this the way this works? Surely I should have a chance to defend myself, be told of the court date or something? I'm very upset about this. Any input much appreciated. Thank you.

 

[simon field]

I hope this is okay to post here. I'm a business owner, and 100% of my income comes through my company. The last 6 months I've not been able to pay my residential rent to my landlord. My business income went from big figures each month to virtually zero due to lockdown. Without being served any papers or opportunity to defend myself, I received a letter from the court saying a County Court judgment has been granted against me. Its devastating. I've always kept my credit clean and my rent paid in full and in time before this. No opportunity to even defend myself. Is this the way this works? Surely I should have a chance to defend myself, be told of the court date or something? I'm very upset about this. Any input much appreciated. Thank you.

Are you registered at your residential address?

Contact the court tomorrow and find out what’s happened.

Phone your landlord and find out what’s happened.

PS, this may be better off in the ‘legal’ forum...

 

[BenJacobs]

Yes, I am registered at the property, have been here a few years. Call the court to ask them the process of what should have happened?

 

[Mr D]

You? Or the company has the CCJ?

Takes some time to get there - you do receive post at your company registered legal address?

Reminders, often phone calls, then court papers sent to the registered address - all before the hearing.

 

[BenJacobs]

Myself now has the CCJ, not my company.

 

[simon field]

Yes. As far as I’m aware you can’t suddenly get a ccj without some form of correspondence.

 

[BenJacobs]

I would have thought the court would have sent something informing me I'm being summoned or something similar to defend, I don't know how it works, but seems very presumptive to just grant a CCJ without this to me?

 

[Mr D]

No opportunity to even defend myself. Is this the way this works? Surely I should have a chance to defend myself, be told of the court date or something? I'm very upset about this. Any input much appreciated. Thank you.

Not entirely sure how you would defend non payment of rent without paying the rent.

The debt exists. The landlord has gone to court to get the debt acknowledged by the court.

A CCJ doesn't generate more money for your company. It doesn't grant you a load of money. It just is a piece of paper saying you owe the debt.
Which presumably you owed yesterday, last week, last month etc. No change.

So now you pay the debt or not as you were doing.

Or you challenge it based on whatever....
Non receipt of paperwork? OK new CCJ done with paperwork - changes what?

Or showing the figure is wrong because you paid most or all that sum off the arrears already?

 

[Mr D]

I would have thought the court would have sent something informing me I'm being summoned or something similar to defend, I don't know how it works, but seems very presumptive to just grant a CCJ without this to me?

Either royal mail lost mail - which does happen but is pretty rare - or it was received and ignored.

Its a process - debt, paperwork sent and date arranged, you reply or don't reply giving your defence or acknowledging the debt and then CCJ.

 

[BenJacobs]

Well I'm saying I didn't receive it. So we'll go on that shall we.

I'm close to having the funds to clear it off in full, so yes, it does make a difference to me to not have this marked against me for 6 years.

 

[billybob99]

<removed>

Yeah a creditor can apply from a CCJ against you, if the courts agree with them, they'll issue a judgement against you and tell you to pay the money back.

To answer your question, you will get info about all this in the post.

Obviously you need this info to find out about a potential CCJ and weight up your options, pay it all back, ask to pay later or in instalments or dispute it.

Sounds like it could have got lost in the post.

 

[BenJacobs]

Ignore the the clueless guy aka Mr. Delusional.

Yeah a creditor can apply from a CCJ against you, if the courts agree with them, they'll issue a judgement against you and tell you to pay the money back.

To answer your question, you will get info about all this in the post.

Obviously you need this info to find out about a potential CCJ and weight up your options, pay it all back, ask to pay later or in instalments or dispute it.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

Would I get information before the court makes their decision based on what they're being told, or would they ask if I have any defence before they do that?

 

[Mr D]

Well I'm saying I didn't receive it. So we'll go on that shall we.

I'm close to having the funds to clear it off in full, so yes, it does make a difference to me to not have this marked against me for 6 years.

You have a time after the judgement to pay it. You have a considerable amount of time prior to the judgement to pay it or negotiate payment acceptable to both parties.
You may wait a while currently to get the date of CCJ changed.

 

[billybob99]

Would I get information before the court makes their decision based on what they're being told, or would they ask if I have any defence before they do that?

What you have received is the CCJ. The decision has been made, you owe this money to the creditor.

You need to decide if you gonna pay it all back, ask for time, or dispute it.

 

[Mr D]

Ignore the the clueless guy above aka Mr. Delusional.

Yeah a creditor can apply from a CCJ against you, if the courts agree with them, they'll issue a judgement against you and tell you to pay the money back.

To answer your question, you will get info about all this in the post.

Obviously you need this info to find out about a potential CCJ and weight up your options, pay it all back, ask to pay later or in instalments or dispute it.

Sounds like it could have got lost in the post.

The poster above you is the OP. Just saying.

 

[billybob99]

The poster above you is the OP. Just saying.

I know, that's why it says > Ignore the the clueless guy aka Mr. Delusional.

 

[BenJacobs]

Mr D. Let's not be pedantic. This is a difficult real life situation for me and I'm reaching out for help and input. If you just want to be a keyboard warrior, please post somewhere else. I'm looking to get proper advice here.

 

[billybob99]

Mr D. Let's not be pedantic. This is a difficult real life situation for me and I'm reaching out for help and input. If you just want to be a keyboard warrior, please post somewhere else. I'm looking to get proper advice here.

He likes to increase his post count to win the competition.

I just re-read your opening post, slowly.

I don't think anything got lost in the post, what you have received is the CCJ judgement.

Now you have to decide what you'll do, pay it all off, or dispute it.

Nobody wants a CCJ tattoo on their backside, do what you can to get it paid.

 

[BenJacobs]

Exactly, what I got was just the judgement, nothing else. That's the first I saw of it. Okay, I'll contact the court and ask them what next. I thought I'd get some sort of notification that this was being seen by the court and invite me to give my side or not, but seemingly the process doesn't work that way. Thanks for your help.

 

[simon field]

Exactly, what I got was just the judgement, nothing else. That's the first I saw of it. Okay, I'll contact the court and ask them what next. I thought I'd get some sort of notification that this was being seen by the court and invite me to give my side or not, but seemingly the process doesn't work that way.

It does work that way. If the judgement mail has found its way to you, there’s no reason why previous correspondence hasn’t.

Pretty sure there would’ve been more than one letter - it seems unlikely that they would get lost in the post.

The court should be able to tell you exactly what was sent & when.

Not sure whether lost correspondence is enough to get a judgement set aside, someone with better legal knowledge will be along tomorrow I’m sure..

Have you spoken to your landlord?

 

[paulears]

Actually, it does sound like something went wrong, because the court papers usually check to see if some kind of last resort happened, like a letter explaining you need to pay, or action will be taken - so that means the usual process is you get asked by the court to say if you owe it, or dispute it, then they set a date which you can attend, or not where the evidence is considered and the judgement entered, or not as the case may be. The court will be sending out these documents as a matter of routine - so surely the system has gone wrong somewhere. If you got the result delivered, then they have the address correct, so you need too find out why you were unaware. Your landlord should have contacted you to ask why you didn't pay then you ought to have got the last chance before action notification, then a court date from them, and then after that date passes and you not attending, the judgement for or against. That's quite a few vital bits of paper adrift. Balance of probabilities means it sounds like something went badly wrong, Speak to the court. Best you can do is get 'satisfied' recorded against the CCJ.

 

[BenJacobs]

Actually, it does sound like something went wrong, because the court papers usually check to see if some kind of last resort happened, like a letter explaining you need to pay, or action will be taken - so that means the usual process is you get asked by the court to say if you owe it, or dispute it, then they set a date which you can attend, or not where the evidence is considered and the judgement entered, or not as the case may be. The court will be sending out these documents as a matter of routine - so surely the system has gone wrong somewhere. If you got the result delivered, then they have the address correct, so you need too find out why you were unaware. Your landlord should have contacted you to ask why you didn't pay then you ought to have got the last chance before action notification, then a court date from them, and then after that date passes and you not attending, the judgement for or against. That's quite a few vital bits of paper adrift. Balance of probabilities means it sounds like something went badly wrong, Speak to the court. Best you can do is get 'satisfied' recorded against the CCJ.

Thank you Paul, that's been a great help. I appreciate your input and will speak with the court tomorrow to see what was sent, and when, and what next. Thank you.

 

[kulture]

Just to remind posters, new and old, that if you feel that a post is inappropiate then REPORT IT, and don't take the thread off topic by trashing each other.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Apply for a set-aside on the basis that you haven't received correspondence

My knowledge is very out of date (law module, around the time of Julius Caesar) but I recall a thing called the 'postal rule' which went that proof of postage is proof of delivery; so if it was sent through any sort of recorded channel they might view it as being received by you. (On the other hand that may have changed)

Worst eventuality, settle in 30 days & your record will stay clean

 

[Newchodge]

You should have received a Letter Before Action setting out what you owed and why you owed it and requesting payment or proposals.

Then, if nothing came of that, you should have received, from the court, a copy of the claim against you with a requirement to file a response within 14 days, or file an acknowledgment of claim within 14 days and a full response within 28 days.

Then, if you did not respond the landlord would have been granted a judgment in default and the court would send you a copy of that judgment.

Are you CERTAIN that you have a judgment, issued by the court and signed and dated by the court. As opposed to a copy of the application for judgment, sent to frighten you into paying?

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Check that the "court" is a real "court" too... and not the "mailing office" it's probably the bailiff letter threatening a CCJ with the "mailing office" which claims to be a court on it.

Take a breath, calm down... all is well... Coronavirus Act 2020 protects all tenants.

 

[Newchodge]

Check that the "court" is a real "court" too... and not the "mailing office" it's probably the bailiff letter threatening a CCJ with the "mailing office" which claims to be a court on it.

Take a breath, calm down... all is well... Coronavirus Act 2020 protects all tenants.

It protects them from eviction.....

 

[Mr D]

Check that the "court" is a real "court" too... and not the "mailing office" it's probably the bailiff letter threatening a CCJ with the "mailing office" which claims to be a court on it.

Take a breath, calm down... all is well... Coronavirus Act 2020 protects all tenants.

Covid act does not appear to protect them from having arrears.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

Well... I initiated proceedings against someone 6 months ago. Eventually I got the usual appointment for mediation which the other party backed out of at the last minute.

I have just received a date of hearing which is the end of March next year.

Unless this guy's landlord went to the High Court and thousands, I'd be interested to know how the judgement came about at such speed, how the usual mediation process was bypassed and all normal communications never arrived?

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Well... I initiated proceedings against someone 6 months ago. Eventually I got the usual appointment for mediation which the other party backed out of at the last minute.

I have just received a date of hearing which is the end of March next year.

Unless this guy's landlord went to the High Court and thousands, I'd be interested to know how the judgement came about at such speed, how the usual mediation process was bypassed and all normal communications never arrived?

Which is why I mentioned the Coronavirus Act 2020 - what has happened doesn't make sense, unless they've chased for payment they couldn't go for anything realistically... and if they've put a CCJ on the OP then surely they're looking at eviction... if there is no mention of eviction I'd hazard a guess it's just a bailiff letter from the "mailing office" which claims to be a court... i.e. County Court Business Centre Northampton.

As far as I am aware, there is no court in the land currently that will allow a CCJ go against someone for non-payment of rent for a domestic rental property.

If this is the case, then it's a scare tactic only, the Landlord has contacted a dodgy bailiff and this is one of their letters only...

 

[simon field]

Still no mention of simply phoning the landlord?

You can do that today!

 

[chickenlady]

Residential rent - speak to Citizens Advice. They're good at that stuff.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Residential rent - speak to Citizens Advice. They're good at that stuff.

No they're not... they're as bad as the council TBH... which is a shame as the council and CAB differ so much with their "advice" people get even more confused...

 

[Mr D]

No they're not... they're as bad as the council TBH... which is a shame as the council and CAB differ so much with their "advice" people get even more confused...

I've a sister in law working for a council helping people in rent arrears.
Sometimes the first contact by the renter is on the day of the eviction - having ignored all the letters and phone messages up to that point.

CAB have sometimes told customers strange things - or the story told to CAB is only part of the issue and affects advice given.
Or maybe some people have selective hearing, focus on one thing said and exclude all other aspects of explanation.
Result is usually bad unless they get help.

 

[BeauLacey]

My business income went from big figures each month to virtually zero due to lockdown.

In the months you were making big figures was none of this income saved as a contingency

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

I've a sister in law working for a council helping people in rent arrears.
Sometimes the first contact by the renter is on the day of the eviction - having ignored all the letters and phone messages up to that point.

CAB have sometimes told customers strange things - or the story told to CAB is only part of the issue and affects advice given.
Or maybe some people have selective hearing, focus on one thing said and exclude all other aspects of explanation.
Result is usually bad unless they get help.

I work with CAB and the council with our Locksmith services, they contact us quite regular to ask about the law about a Locksmith gaining access to change the locks when "corrupt" bailiffs go around...

A lot of the times it's due to lack off support and incorrect information being given by the Council and CAB - as you've said, and I do agree "sometimes the first contact is by the tenant on the day of eviction... majority of the time this is because the council and CAB insist on telling tenants that until they've been evicted there's nothing they can do... which is bizarre! the CAB and the council are meant to be there to help in these matters...

 

[Newchodge]

Shelter is a far better bet than the CAB or Council

 

[UKSBD]

The whole system is wrong when someone who is struggling to pay rent can't leave but instead have to stay there building up months of debt and wait until they are legally evicted.

 

[matlob]

Did you not ring your landlord to say you weren't going to pay the rent? And, did they not contact you when they didn't receive payment?

If you now have enough money to pay the debt why couldn't you pay some before you got the letter.

I'm a landlord and some tenants rang me to ask for a reduced rent for a while and then up their payments after covid. This was fine with me and much better than them just deciding not to pay.

 

[obscure]

The last 6 months I've not been able to pay my residential rent to my landlord.

When you contacted your landlord to let them know you would not be able to pay, what was their response? Was there any discussion of how long this would be for or if you might pay a lower rent for a while?