Can I offer to install cheap security systems without qualifications?

[andy greenhalgh]

Hi,

My sister (a month ago) asked me to install a yale home security alarm, a wireless system and I thought to myself, crikey these are easy to install I wonder if I could "knock" some of these out myself...

I have experience selling door to door and I can source alarm parts remarkably cheap from China (unsurprisingly) and I would love to to go out on the doors with 3 or 4 alarm systems in my van and offer to install them for people. I'd estimate I could make about £50 to £80 per install and probably do 2 a day - not bad pocket money!

The systems would be wired but mostly wireless and have an outside siren, indoor siren, control panel PIR motion sensors, window contacts etc.

Where would I stand legally? Can I just waltz around a housing estate and offer this service. ? Surely not...

From my google research the only restrictive regulations I can find refer to the systems which are capable of dialling security centres and the police which, naturally, need to meet a certain standard. I don't even need to be a qualified electrician because I'm handling very small voltages, so I understand (correct me if this is wrong)

What about simple DIY alarms which people can't be bothered installing themselves which I can offer to install?

Your help would be appreciated,

Andy

 

[Scalloway]

Job profile for a Security systems installer below. If you are going to do it as a business I would suggest you take out public liability insurance.

https://nationalcareersservice.dire...bprofiles/Pages/securitysystemsinstaller.aspx

 

[Sam Hulston]

Legally yes you can but you would require public liability at a minimum, Also door to door selling is legal as far as im aware the only issue you would face is if customer wanted a installation of a system wired to a monitoring center or the police most home owners would not but we have installed and fitted a few that have. We over come the issue by providing the alarm monitoring and fitting as its what we do as a company. You could out source the monitoring but then you need to factor in the cost.

Sam Hulston

 

[john1989]

If someone came to my door offering to fit a security system, I would naturally assume it is one of those not so nice men that usually offer driveways.

I wouldn't purchase anything off someone knocking on my door.

 

[Paul Norman]

As above, really. First, you must have public liability insurance - and that will be more expensive to get if you are unqualified. Secondly, I suspect that knocking on doors will mean the only customers you will get are the more vulnerable who are inclined to buy.

Like john1989, I would not buy from a person who just knocked on my door.

 

[andy greenhalgh]

Thank you Sam that answered my question.

As for John and Paul thank you so much for offering your opinion, it was gladly received. Those "not so nice men" john, really? I've been in the door to door game for many years and you have people who do buy from the door and those that don't - those that do are simply interested in what I have to offer and certainly not vulnerable Paul. I think that kind of attitude towards a fellow member is quite immature Paul. But hey, thanks anyway chum.

 

[john1989]

Thank you Sam that answered my question.

As for John and Paul thank you so much for offering your opinion, it was gladly received. Those "not so nice men" john, really? I've been in the door to door game for many years and you have people who do buy from the door and those that don't - those that do are simply interested in what I have to offer and certainly not vulnerable Paul. I think that kind of attitude towards a fellow member is quite immature Paul. But hey, thanks anyway chum.

Yes, really.

 

[andy greenhalgh]

each to their own John. Like I say, there's those that do buy from the door and there's them that don't - you fall into the latter, however, I don't see how your point of view or moral position is helpful to my question. Do you?

 

[john1989]

each to their own John. Like I say, there's those that do buy from the door and there's them that don't - you fall into the latter, however, I don't see how your point of view or moral position is helpful to my question. Do you?

You asked if you could just waltz around housing estates.

If your business is aimed at home owners and tenants. I would have thought that the opinion of home owners and tenants would have been of interest.

If you wish to take opinions as personal attacks, rather than the constructive comments they are intended to be, perhaps business ownership isn't the right path for you.

 

[Paul Norman]

john1989 - what you have discovered is that some folks come on here not to receive the honest responses of people who have considerable business expertise, but to have some nods of agreement with their plan.

I do have some knowledge of the business of selling security items to householders, and what was required in order to succeed at them, too.

But I have absolutely no wish to be accused of being immature just for having an opinion. Or to be called chum. Ever. Because no one says that anymore. In fact the last bloke that did - before this thread - was rather the worse for drink and thought, mistakenly, that I had slighted him in some way. It ended fine, because his more sober friends rather awkwardly removed him from the scene.

 

[andy greenhalgh]

saying you won't buy from door to door salesman isn't something constructive - it's one person's view and one of the people I meet every day - I accept people say no (more often than not they do, but so what?) but those who say yes is what my earnings depend on. And there are always people who say yes just because you're not one of them and also pointing this out to me isn't helpful and extremely childish.

"constructive comments" - I nearly fell off my chair when I read that. Thanks for cheering me up, brilliant!

 

[Paul Norman]

Andy - in response to your questions, you go right ahead run your business. You will be fine. I strongly recommend that you do not ask people for their opinions, ever.

But as a tip, calling other business people childish is not going to help your cause one tiny little bit.
We were trying to help. Obviously, our opinions are just that, in this regard, and, constructively, we do have some ideas on how some security installers have set themselves up. For the most part, people on here will happily give out tips, too.

But, for the most part, also, we are business people. We do not sugar coat our opinions, and that does on occassions prove a little too much for some people.

I do wish you all the best with your venture.

 

[andy greenhalgh]

I'm already running my business door to door, I wish to steer it into another direction, that is all. So I asked a legality question I didn't (and let me make this absolutely clear) ask for your opinion on what you think of people knocking on doors. It doesn't bother me, I just find it surprising and a bit petty.

 

[andy greenhalgh]

It's like a member coming on here saying he wants to set up a corner shop selling pet supplies and someone telling them they don't like buying from corner shops - not relevant because people clearly DO buy from corner shops.

In the same way people DO buy from the door, even if you don't. Surprising as this may seem.

 

[john1989]

I'm already running my business door to door, I wish to steer it into another direction, that is all.

I nearly fell off my chair when I read that. Thanks for cheering me up, brilliant!

So you are asking about the legality of selling door to door after you've been selling door to door? It seems like a bizarre approach.

 

[andy greenhalgh]

John, if you read my question you'll see I was asking whether or not it would be legal to install security systems without being qualified. I already knock on doors selling another product. Sorry if all this appears confusing.

 

[Newchodge]

@andy greenhalgh This is a forum for businesses. It is not here to provide specific advice to specific questions. Contributors will read your post and, if they are interested enough, they will comment on it based on their own experience. That is what a forum is about.

If you only want a specific response to the specific question that you want answered, without any other comment that you personally find unhelpful, but which may help other forum members, I suggest that you leave the forum and make a paid-for appointment with a legal adviser.

Coming into the forum and insulting other members is most likely to help you get the advice you so obviously need. Which is that you should grow up.

 

[andy greenhalgh]

so somebody suggesting only vulnerable people buy off the door is acceptable? So I'm not entitled to challenge this? You sound more ridiculous than they do.

 

[john1989]

so somebody suggesting only vulnerable people buy off the door is acceptable? So I'm not entitled to challenge this? You sound more ridiculous than they do.

It isn't the genuine businesses that are a problem, it is the rogues. And it is often difficult to tell the difference, particularly if you have conditions such as dementia.
Relatives often put stickers up along the lines of "please, no cold callers".

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/home-safety-and-security/doorstep-scams/doorstep-scams/

As a seasoned cold caller, I'm very surprised that you haven't come across this.

 

[andy greenhalgh]

It exists, of course it does John. It was suggested that ONLY vulnerable people buy from the door which is simply not true and simple-mindedness.

 

[MBE1]

Selling security systems door to door is a proven concept, nothing wrong if done fairly and correctly.

I used to know a team doing exactly the same idea, they did very well. Unless people have tried door to door selling many misunderstand the business model, the same one used by the major utilities, virgin, avon etc for many years.

Few business models are as profitable or successful, if people did not buy then there would be no door to door selling after a week or two.

 

[andy greenhalgh]

Thanks MBE1 for those sane words. I've been selling door to door for various companies and recently took the plunge and sold my own products door to door. It's going a lot better than I thought and now I'm thinking a little bigger and I want to install burglar alarms. I suspected I would need quals but this seems not to be the case. Well, I'll have a couple of security systems in the back of the van ready to install if I find the interest. Security is a sector I was in once before, just never installed alarms professionally. So here goes!

 

[AllUpHere]

What type of product do you currently sell door to door?

 

[Paul Norman]

It exists, of course it does John. It was suggested that ONLY vulnerable people buy from the door which is simply not true and simple-mindedness.

Andy...you have called me immature, childish and simple minded.

Selling door to door is not your problem. It is your intemperance of language.

If you have further insults to hurl at me, that is fine. But, in order to protect your own reputation, don't put them in a forum. Man up and phone me.

I expressed an opinion. People do that on here. You have countered it. People do that on here. I have read your countering, and at no point hurled insulting remarks in your direction - I won't, because business people do not do that here, or anywhere else.

 

[andy greenhalgh]

Andy...you have called me immature, childish and simple minded.

Selling door to door is not your problem. It is your intemperance of language.

If you have further insults to hurl at me, that is fine. But, in order to protect your own reputation, don't put them in a forum. Man up and phone me.

I expressed an opinion. People do that on here. You have countered it. People do that on here. I have read your countering, and at no point hurled insulting remarks in your direction - I won't, because business people do not do that here, or anywhere else.

You invite "insulting remarks" when you say things like, "well I wouldn't buy off the door" and, "I suspect that knocking on doors will mean the only customers you will get are the more vulnerable who are inclined to buy" - it's what you imply by statements like this that opens you to "insulting remarks" - I understand people if they don't like people knocking on their door but this is not the place for your ranting.

I had this idea that member/s would (some have) offer some helpful information and I feel let down when people make snide remarks about an industry I've been involved in for 30 years. Criticism is fine but not snide remarks and inaccurate information.. I meet people like you every day, I just go to the next door and talk to them instead, now stop wasting space on this thread trying to justify your position and use your time more constructively.

 

[Paul Norman]

I am not ranting. I am just calling you out. You didn't phone. You will need much more courage to do door to door work. And should someone offer an opinion, such as 'I don't want a security system installed by an unqualified person', you must not cry, or insult them.

And I do have a lot of useful information. Reserved for people who wish to hear it.

Comments on these threads are not for you, they are for all the readers of this forum. Some don't post, but still read, and that is great - it is a useful resource. But you are correct in this, I shall not be wasting time on this forum talking to person's such as yourself. I might pop in for a chat, later, that would be much more productive. Now I know you don't pick up the phone.

 

[Callum Ward]

Hi Andy. I work in the security industry at the min, thought I'd put my "2 cents" in.

Them yale alarms aren't so great. You can get better for similar money, wired and wireless.

We use risco, you have to sign up for a trade account but getting one shouldn't be so difficult. Castle are also pretty good, but I'm not sure how you go about purchasing them. There's also texecom and scantronic which can be bought from most electrical wholesalers.

Do your research though. We've had customers who have sued other companies because they've been robbed but their alarms haven't gone off.... granted they were monitered but you could do without the hassle. A decent, well installed system should be no problem at all though. General rule of thumb is every accessible room has a PIR, door contacts on every external door. Pet sensors are a must for people with cats and dogs as normal ones will trigger constantly, avoid putting sensors in conservatorys though as heat will trigger them.

We've been installing the latest wireless systems from risco in half a day and charing around £600.

Most of our work (other than word of mouth) seems to come from yell/yellow pages and the locally distributed ad mags (Google on your doorstep, you'll probably know what I mean) plus a small portion from the website.

Hope this helps.

 

[Toby Willows]

Sorry, but just the other day my elderly parents were taken advantage off by a by a "door to door" salesman. Frankly it's the lowest form of sales these days. And yes there may well be genuine door to door salesmen (yet to meet one though), but the majority are anything but.

If you want to have a decent, honest and reputable business cold calling door to door isn't the way to do it. Unless you are a "traveller". There are many more profitable ways to advertise your service than randomly knocking on doors.

Oh, and NO. Whoever I employ to do work on or around my property needs to be fully qualified in their field. No cowboys.

OP, why who don't you get the necessary qualifications in electrical installations and go from there legit?

 

[MBE1]

Sorry, but just the other day my elderly parents were taken advantage off by a by a "door to door" salesman. Frankly it's the lowest form of sales these days. And yes there may well be genuine door to door salesmen (yet to meet one though), but the majority are anything but.

If you want to have a decent, honest and reputable business cold calling door to door isn't the way to do it. Unless you are a "traveller". There are many more profitable ways to advertise your service than randomly knocking on doors.

The award for the worst generalisation post goes to...

There are plenty of decent honest guys working door to door, milkmen amongst others who regularly check on their clients for free. Almost all major companies have employed this method of sales over the years, hardly any are travellers.

IMO there are many more rogues in suits and offices sat behind computers or bank desks than a handful of guys knocking doors. Sorry you have a bad view of this sales route, done well it is very successful and profitable. It isn't the only way to market but you would be foolish to dismiss it without some research.

 

[Callum Ward]

Plus I think anyone can try shaft an elderly couple, the stigma attached to door to door is that it's is quite easy to target the older generation in comparison to any other method of marketing. But it's still possible and I'm sure it happens, to shaft them even if they've got in touch with you via websites/yell/local ads...

As long as the door to door is done professionally and you stick to your prices what ever position the customer is in, and you aren't using aggressive sales tactics then nobody can accuse you of doing anything wrong.

 

[Newchodge]

Plus I think anyone can try shaft an elderly couple, the stigma attached to door to door is that it's is quite easy to target the older generation in comparison to any other method of marketing. But it's still possible and I'm sure it happens, to shaft them even if they've got in touch with you via websites/yell/local ads...

As long as the door to door is done professionally and you stick to your prices what ever position the customer is in, and you aren't using aggressive sales tactics then nobody can accuse you of doing anything wrong.

As long as you don't do anything wrong, nobody can accuse you of doing anything wrong.

 

[Callum Ward]