Buying a salon help please

MikmakFer

Free Member
Feb 11, 2020
39
7
Glasgow
I've given you the best advice in the thread but you've got a mental block against it.

The advice repeated: Do not trust the nonsense in this thread, go pay an expert. There's tons more to this than can be covered in a forum thread.

I agree with this, we could go around all day about this stuff and give opinions, some of which are correct and some of which aren't. You need to take the advice with a pinch of salt and get it confirmed by a professional who has insurance to advise.
 
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Not tight at all, I have spoke to people in industry and know I can make it a successful profitable business, no issue with that was just asking for some advice on a business forum. But if that's not what you get here not a problem. But guess it defeats object of the site

A recurring point on here. Forums are great for swapping advice and experience - and generally very poor for getting specific professional advice.

Human nature being what it is, the default will always be to take the 'advice' that you want to hear - and very often it will be irrelevant and/or nonsense
 
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Mr D

Free Member
Feb 12, 2017
28,925
3,630
Stirling
I'm a bit confused by your points here. Why would you have a personal guarantee with HMRC on a Ltd. Co if you've acted properly? and why would you pay a deposit on VAT? If you need to make a VAT application then you need to make one. If HMRC were to ask for a "deposit" then you tell them that you're not going to apply VAT - simple really...

A Ltd. Co is limited liability which means that provided you've done the right things, then you're untouchable including previous HMRC debts. If you've screwed up as a director then in that instance, the veil of incorporation is lifted and they go after you as a director (which just to add, is very hard to prove).

I'm not going to go down the road that I have seen here quite a lot where someone wants to go off piste and turn a simple question into a pissing contest so let's just focus on the question. I presume Stedurham hasn't been disqualified and I presume he's not out to screw the taxman so your points are pretty useless. (S)he had a concern in relation to holding staff costs with a heavy bill to make them redundant. If it were the case that they bought the business and it was a Ltd. Co and it wasn't viable then they just close it. Provided they've not done anything to lift the veil of incorporation then they carry no risks from the closing.

You won't have personal guarantees with HMRC.
May well do with landlord, with bank, with particular creditors.

Great if your business can choose to stay below VAT level and trade without losing custom.

Now imagine a hair salon that has to close for 4 months at a time because they cannot afford to go over VAT level....
4 months of bills, staffing, rent etc but zero income.

But hey by all means advise people to do stuff. Limited means you don't take on the company debts. Does not mean the fact you have had a previous company is ignored in future.

Not viable limited company that is closed after purchasing? Common for landlords to seek a personal guarantee. Business is closed? Landlord still gets their money.
 
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Rather than laugh at people you could help, but guess not
Reading between the lines in this absurd thread, the advice seems to be don't touch this turkey with a barge-pole!

I would not advise that this shop is a lost cause, but you MUST go into this deal fully armed and aware of all the issues involved. The main ones are -

1. No assets to speak of.

2. Massive liabilities - staff and lease/rent costs. These are liabilities. They should be paying you for taking these liabilities off their hands. That, after all, is probably why this turkey is up for sale! Massive tip - TUPE applies even if you only buy the assets and if you try to 'elbow' the staff out by setting targets and other tests and benchmarks that they have never had to face before, they can (and probably will) walk off the job and claim against you for constructive dismissal.

3. £5,000 profit (net, gross, what?) is not a business. It is a hobby! There are costs involved in owning a business, such as accountants consultancy fees, legal fees, administration fees and the obvious effort you must make to oversee and check everything every week or month. These are above and beyond the actual costs that are set against the business itself. These are costs that YOU incur just by owning and overseeing the damn thing!

4. Due diligence? You make no mention of any research you have done. Questions you MUST find answers to BEFORE you make an offer include credit ratings for present owners, the landlord, plans by the council for that street, company history and history of the owners and (very important) the landlord's demands on a change of tenant.

5. Future investment needs? This place ain't going no place right now and YOU are going to have to cough up the dough to make the place viable. That too is a cost and my guess is that it will be a considerable cost.

OK, so far, so good.

Now maybe, just maybe, this shop has some future in your hands. Maybe you can run this place at a profit, where the current tenants have failed - obviously.

BUT that future is yours and not theirs. It is not their future to sell! That's why, when people selling businesses talk of potential, they are talking garbage. YOU are the person with the potential - they have no potential and therefore no potential to sell!

As for the silly idea that a business is worth three-to-six-times net profit - say what??? There are 1001 different factors that decide the value to the buyer and profit is just one of them. Size is another. The larger the company, the lower is the risk. A micro-company with a £70k turnover and with liabilities and F-all assets is the riskiest of all!

Yes, you can put a multiplier on profit, but then you must also put a multiplier on risk and add or subtract liabilities and assets. (And whilst we are talking about assets, stock should not be valued at whatever the owners paid for it, but at value. That means at fire-sale or eBay prices!)

Good luck and all that - but keep your eyes open and talk to the landlord. The current tenants deserve something - maybe a modest finder's fee is my take on their real position. They don't have a business!
 
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Stedurham

Free Member
May 11, 2018
541
84
I'm a bit confused by your points here. Why would you have a personal guarantee with HMRC on a Ltd. Co if you've acted properly? and why would you pay a deposit on VAT? If you need to make a VAT application then you need to make one. If HMRC were to ask for a "deposit" then you tell them that you're not going to apply VAT - simple really...

A Ltd. Co is limited liability which means that provided you've done the right things, then you're untouchable including previous HMRC debts. If you've screwed up as a director then in that instance, the veil of incorporation is lifted and they go after you as a director (which just to add, is very hard to prove).

I'm not going to go down the road that I have seen here quite a lot where someone wants to go off piste and turn a simple question into a pissing contest so let's just focus on the question. I presume Stedurham hasn't been disqualified and I presume he's not out to screw the taxman so your points are pretty useless. (S)he had a concern in relation to holding staff costs with a heavy bill to make them redundant. If it were the case that they bought the business and it was a Ltd. Co and it wasn't viable then they just close it. Provided they've not done anything to lift the veil of incorporation then they carry no risks from the closing.


Hi its not a limited company, but guess would need to make it that
not disqualified and have been paying vat bill without issues for 10 years, so probably not as daft as I type
thanks
 
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