buying a closed pub

[delbroom]

Hi, I am considering buying a village pub that has been closed for two years (not COVID) I have a few questions that my local planning office want £125 to give me the answers. I have tried to find out the info online but am struggling, so if anyone here has any info to pass on I would be really grateful on the following:

1) changing use to residential
2) changing use to a licensed cafe
3) how long can we live in it before opening and trading
4) do you have to pay business rates while it's closed (rated at £10500)

thank you

 

[WaveJumper]

Hi, I am considering buying a village pub that has been closed for two years (not COVID) I have a few questions that my local planning office want £125 to give me the answers. I have tried to find out the info online but am struggling, so if anyone here has any info to pass on I would be really grateful on the following:

1) changing use to residential
Need planning consent
2) changing use to a licensed cafe
As above
3) how long can we live in it before opening and trading
I am sure if you are living over the premises as long as you like
4) do you have to pay business rates while it's closed (rated at £10500)
Yes check if you are initialled to any relief also worth checking internet on the subject of how to save on empty property business rates

Check out this link for some more info on the topic:
https://plainview.co.uk/news/planning-for-pubs-development-and-change-of-use/

thank you

 

[Mark T Jones]

1) tough gig, but great returns if you can do it. Much will depend on the attitude of your local council plus numerous potential covenants on or around the property

2) Subject to planning, but ar easier than changing to resi.

3) Technically, as long as you like, but the council might intervene if they get complaints.

4) There are several potential exemptions, especially if you are the only pub in the village.

Out of interest, other than property-play, why do you think this is a good idea?

 

[WaveJumper]

Local villagers can get quite attached to their local pubs even if its been closed for a while and trying to get a planning application through for a change of use / development could meet a lot of resistance

 

[Interestedobserver]

I looked at this myself a while ago. Buying a pub with a plan to making it into a residential house as you can get a lot of property for lower than normal outlay. Albeit you then need to spend a bit making it suitable

It can be done but you have to show the pub is not financially viable and also the local community has first chance to buy the pub and make it work as a community pub - something like that

Which is why you see a lot of community run pubs nowadays

The two points above were enough to put me off

 

[Mark T Jones]

Local villagers can get quite attached to their local pubs even if its been closed for a while and trying to get a planning application through for a change of use / development could meet a lot of resistance

Local villagers, who turn up twice a year for a half pint of lime & soda (and complain about prices) are bizarrely attached to their local, and know every single covanent & precedent to block change.

I had an acquaintance who made a good living out of de-licencing pubs for residential conversion. He was pretty unleasant - the people he worked with far more so. That was part of the gig.

 

[delbroom]

Thank you..... it's a really lovely pub but I wouldn't be ready to trade as soon as we moved in, as it's been closed so long it will need some thought.

 

[delbroom]

1) tough gig, but great returns if you can do it. Much will depend on the attitude of your local council plus numerous potential covenants on or around the property

2) Subject to planning, but ar easier than changing to resi.

3) Technically, as long as you like, but the council might intervene if they get complaints.

4) There are several potential exemptions, especially if you are the only pub in the village.

Out of interest, other than property-play, why do you think this is a good idea?

it's a lovely pub in a lovely village and has, in the past, been very successful. The villagers have ACV on it though and I think that it may cause issues with any sale... we will see! thank you for your help

 

[delbroom]

I looked at this myself a while ago. Buying a pub with a plan to making it into a residential house as you can get a lot of property for lower than normal outlay. Albeit you then need to spend a bit making it suitable

It can be done but you have to show the pub is not financially viable and also the local community has first chance to buy the pub and make it work as a community pub - something like that

Which is why you see a lot of community run pubs nowadays

The two points above were enough to put me off

it is daunting... I have done some more research on the pub and I don't think planning would grant a residential dwelling there. the villagers have placed an ACV on the pub so it would have to be run as that... still investigating...

 

[delbroom]

Local villagers, who turn up twice a year for a half pint of lime & soda (and complain about prices) are bizarrely attached to their local, and know every single covanent & precedent to block change.

I had an acquaintance who made a good living out of de-licencing pubs for residential conversion. He was pretty unleasant - the people he worked with far more so. That was part of the gig.

i'm too nice..... that's not going to work

 

[Energise Accounting]

1. Very difficult you would have to prove the building as a pub is not viable.
2. Possible
3. Long as you want i suppose
4. Possibly

 

[MOIC]

I have a few questions that my local planning office want £125 to give me the answers

Surely it's worth paying £125 to get the answers from your local planning office who will give you accurate information related to your specific property.

I presume the cost maybe towards visiting the premises.

 

[IanSuth]

I think the ACV thing will be the biggest stumbler as I think that will allow the local community 6mths ? to come up with a plan/£ to save it as a pub which is 6 mths of you possibly funding a loan you cant use

Have you considered engaging with the local know it all (there will be one) with a suggestion of " reopening pub with integrated village store if you can make it work - what do they think" kind of thing, just to garner an idea of the likely fight you will have

 

[Interestedobserver]

But I get the impression the OP actually just wants to live in the place

And at most open a cafe at some stage?

And is in no hurry to open that cafe or any business there?

Can't see anything above about wanting to save the pub

 

[IanSuth]

But I get the impression the OP actually just wants to live in the place

And at most open a cafe at some stage?

And is in no hurry to open that cafe or any business there?

Can't see anything above about wanting to save the pub

I sort of suspected that but the ACV may affect that decision especially if you have a vociferous local CAMRA group