Business trips away

luckyg · Mar 3, 2009

There is a trade exhibition coming up in italy for me.

If it runs from fri-sun

1) can i justify thur-mon trip there? could i even justify a longer stretch?
2) I have a ltd co but am only director etc, can i bring my wife on the trip and have her flights/hotel expenses included in busienss expense?
3) How much can i stretch business expenses to............3 meals a day? any entertainment?

Many thanks in advance. Off all the sections on this forum i love the advice i get on the accounting section the most. its very valuable!

elaine@cheapaccounting · Mar 3, 2009

trip must be wholly and exclusively for business.

Bringing the wife etc - not unless she is part of the business

luckyg · Mar 3, 2009

elainec100 said:
trip must be wholly and exclusively for business.

Bringing the wife etc - not unless she is part of the business

lol-ok thanks. she is secretary of the ltd company. will that do?

Jheath · Mar 3, 2009

Think of the business case for taking your company secretary:

Admin support during the exhibition
Extra credibility with new contacts by having two senior executives from your organisation present
Opportunity for joint decision making / thought cascading (yes, thought cascading is the new brain storming!)
Does she have a few words of Italian? If yes, she can provide translation services.

In your wisdom as Managing Director if you can make a business case for her going that you can justify to the taxman if necessary, then what's the problem? As long as the trip is genuinely for business and not a holiday!

Zeno · Mar 3, 2009

There is a significant difference between a secretary (as in P.A, Administrative assistant etc) and the now defunct position of company secretary.

luckyg · Mar 3, 2009

Zeno said:
There is a significant difference between a secretary (as in P.A, Administrative assistant etc) and the now defunct position of company secretary.

well to clarify then, she holds the defunct position of cs. can you offer advice on whether bringing her is justifiable?

Zeno · Mar 3, 2009

luckyg said:
well to clarify then, she holds the defunct position of cs. can you offer advice on whether bringing her is justifiable?

If she has no other involvement with the business, I would say no.

Is she a shareholder?

luckyg · Mar 3, 2009

Zeno said:
If she has no other involvement with the business, I would say no.

Is she a shareholder?

Not a shareholder but i can make her one! as i havent allocated the shares yet. she could becoem the type of shareholder whereby she woudl not get very much income as she is a high earner as is.

MyAccountantOnline · Mar 3, 2009

I do hope we are not giving you an excuse to leave your wife at home!!

This may be of interest -

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/senew/SE31980.htm

It gives some examples as well.

luckyg · Mar 3, 2009

This is a pretty good example here......

"The sales director of a company that makes substantial sales to Japan is required to attend a sales conference in Tokyo. Attendance at the conference is part of his duties. His wife accompanies him to attend the social functions that are part of the conference programme.

The trip takes 5 days and the costs incurred are £3,600 for two business class return air fares, £800 for 4 nights accommodation and £600 for meals. The hotel room is no different from the hotel room that he would have taken if he had been travelling by himself.

While the directors expenses are deductible, his wifes are not. You should not permit a deduction for the extra costs incurred because the director was accompanied by his wife, see SE31980. On the face of it, this will be £1,800 for the air fare and £300 for food. The hotel room involved no extra cost."

But the question still exists, can the company secretary come on the trip? anyone know?

obscure · Mar 4, 2009

luckyg said:
But the question still exists, can the company secretary come on the trip? anyone know?

No they can't. As pointed out it is a now defunct position and has no meaning so there is no business case to make for the holder of that office attending.

luckyg · Mar 4, 2009

obscure said:
No they can't. As pointed out it is a now defunct position and has no meaning so there is no business case to make for the holder of that office attending.

THank you.

Zeno · Mar 4, 2009

Just to clarify you can of course take your wife with you, its just that unless you pay for her seperately there will be tax consequences.

As Nicola suggested "Sorry Dear, the taxman says you can't come" will put you on very thin ice....

luckyg · Mar 4, 2009

Zeno said:
Just to clarify you can of course take your wife with you, its just that unless you pay for her seperately there will be tax consequences.

As Nicola suggested "Sorry Dear, the taxman says you can't come" will put you on very thin ice....

thanks for the reply zeno.

While i have your ears.........if i make her a shareholder would that suffice?

i know it may sound extreme but there are quite a few trips away in the year.

Zeno · Mar 4, 2009

There are often very good reasons to make your wife a shareholder but you would need to consult your tax advisor first. I believe you said your wife is already a higher rate tax payer so there may not be an immediate tax advantage.

What you really need to think about is if there is a legitimate business reason that she needs to be there?

Have you considered giving her a formal role in the company?

luckyg · Mar 4, 2009

thanks again zeno.

can i give a formal role without pay? she does do most of the webwork already free of charge!!

Zeno · Mar 4, 2009

Marketing director springs to mind. There is every reason why your firms marketing director should attend the conference.

Does she have enough other input to justify this?

luckyg · Mar 4, 2009

Zeno said:
Marketing director springs to mind. There is every reason why your firms marketing director should attend the conference.

Does she have enough other input to justify this?

no, unfortunately.

thanks for your input-i have stuff to think about now.

Moneyman · Mar 4, 2009

Dont forget to call the DTI they will probably fork out for an overseas sales visit. They are quite quick and the paperwork is easy and 50% of costs is nice.

Travelling Sam · Mar 4, 2009

Moneyman said:
Dont forget to call the DTI they will probably fork out for an overseas sales visit. They are quite quick and the paperwork is easy and 50% of costs is nice.

Can you provide a link for this? I'm on the BERR site and can't find any info?

Moneyman · Mar 4, 2009

Oh dear oh dear...new to the dti or whatever? You actually expect them to tell you how they can help? That would be far too useful and reduce staff numbers when they can more usefully spend the cash shunting you from pillar to post and employing more people to waste the time. They much prefer to tuck it away somewhere and then to anounce that it isnt wanted when nobody asks for it.

phone up and try to get hold of a "regional international trade advisor". they are sometimes split into different sectors. my contact would be no use.

good luck. they are good when you get the right person.

Travelling Sam · Mar 4, 2009

Moneyman said:
Oh dear oh dear...new to the dti or whatever?

After my frustrated dealings with Business Link I pretty much gave up on any government help or support, and fought my way here by myself.

However, a substantial part of our spendings over the next couple of months involve sending people away to create new destination programmes. These will help grow the company, and bring new staff on board. I like the fact that potentially, despite being a travel company, the DTI might pay for us to travel.

But I think it unlikely!

Moneyman · Mar 4, 2009

if your trips are a sales mission then they will pay. if it is just a jolly then no.

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