Business premises

DogGroomer1

Free Member
May 12, 2008
7
1
It is a full repair lease but they are clearing it before they give it to the leasee. Otherwise, it's all left for me to sort out. I'll have to check what needs repairing and whether this will be done by them or do they expect me to do it.

I think I may trial it for the 3 years minimum lease to start with. Even if it does cost £1500-£2k to renew at least it is a better option for a risk averse person like moi!

I worked from home, dreaming of the day, I could be away from distractions, separate the 2 and fulfil the ideas and expectations in my head, so carefully planned, or so I thought.

PLEASE Consult a good Solicitor who specializes in leases, to get them to examine the lease with a fine tooth comb! (scus pun!)
Its well worth the expense
We had similar situation as you, re type of lease LL wanted us to sign,
and the same type of premises to you.
Landlord wanted full repairing lease, our Solicitor argued this, due to the type of building/parade of shops/ construction etc.
Managed to get the Landlord to take on the "full repairing" side of the building, ie structure and external.
Thank goodness Solicitor was thorough! (4k''s worth!)

And yes LL wanted us to pay his fee's too, which our Solicitor argued and won.

We moved in, in the April, in the August had terribly storm, flooding of premises, and the weight of water on the walkway to the flats, meant the roof went.

Our own personal internal insurance paid out,
promising to pay the rest (internal redecoration) once the roof was repaired.
but it took us 18 months of personally hassling the Landlord to get the roof repaired,
by which time our insurance company said too much time had elapsed, and the wouldn't pay out for that part of the claim as it was suspicious......
Hmmm the joke is both the LL's buildings insurance and our Contents etc insurance was with the same company!!!!!
Did ask why they couldn't just do a check of their records to see just when the roof had been repaired,
but no, data protection act doesn't allow that (scuse me) my ar*e
Now, because LL chose the cheapest quote, a year down the line, the roof has gone again!
So we are back to not having use of a 3rd of the property,
due to water running down the walls, electric not safe to use so disconnected in one of the rooms.
And having to bath dogs in the other room, whilst when its raining (or snowing) having water dripping down our necks as we work!
So where do we go from here? Could use H & S risks etc,
but they might shut us down until LandL repairs.....
I have bills to pay, clients to serve and a business I can't risk loosing.
I now feel to way to go is to withhold rent until damage is sorted,
But am going to consult Solicitor on legalities of this move before anything further.

So please be prepared for the unexpected "kick in the teeth"

ask why they want YOU to foot the bill of "full repairing lease.

It might appear a renters market, but having been through The miners strike, the 80's crash,
I know that’s when LL's get even more greedy especially council commercial properties.

re the rest, work through every eventuality you can imagine,
DON'T EVER think "it won't happen to me/us"

Those guys Sod's and Murphy see the red flag and come running.

The Dec after the flood, my OH was diagnosed with cancer, almost died through infection and radio therapy,
try juggling the expanded business the damage, nursing hubby, looking after the kids,
for a year.........I did it, it made me stronger and I found my limits and yes at times wished I'd never expanded from home working, into the studio.
If I'd been at home still, it would have been so much easier,
But now 3 years down the line we've all grown and learnt, would I do it again?

Yes because I now have my dream, and the struggle and the lessons learnt made us all stronger.

Just because it may not be NOW you have your dream, one day the time will be right,
And that will be when YOU do it right,
And not because you THOUGHT it right.


good luck!

xJackie
40 years of Grooming excellence
 
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DogGroomer1

Free Member
May 12, 2008
7
1
It is a full repair lease but they are clearing it before they give it to the leasee. Otherwise, it's all left for me to sort out. I'll have to check what needs repairing and whether this will be done by them or do they expect me to do it.

I think I may trial it for the 3 years minimum lease to start with. Even if it does cost £1500-£2k to renew at least it is a better option for a risk averse person like moi!

I worked from home, dreaming of the day, I could be away from distractions, separate the 2 and fulfil the ideas and expectations in my head, so carefully planned, or so I thought.

PLEASE Consult a good Solicitor who specializes in leases, to get them to examine the lease with a fine tooth comb! (scus pun!)
Its well worth the expense
We had similar situation as you, re type of lease LL wanted us to sign,
and the same type of premises to you.
Landlord wanted full repairing lease, our Solicitor argued this, due to the type of building/parade of shops/ construction etc.
Managed to get the Landlord to take on the "full repairing" side of the building, ie structure and external.
Thank goodness Solicitor was thorough! (4k''s worth!)

And yes LL wanted us to pay his fee's too, which our Solicitor argued and won.

We moved in, in the April, in the August had terribly storm, flooding of premises, and the weight of water on the walkway to the flats, meant the roof went.

Our own personal internal insurance paid out,
promising to pay the rest (internal redecoration) once the roof was repaired.
but it took us 18 months of personally hassling the Landlord to get the roof repaired,
by which time our insurance company said too much time had elapsed, and the wouldn't pay out for that part of the claim as it was suspicious......
Hmmm the joke is both the LL's buildings insurance and our Contents etc insurance was with the same company!!!!!
Did ask why they couldn't just do a check of their records to see just when the roof had been repaired,
but no, data protection act doesn't allow that (scuse me) my ar*e
Now, because LL chose the cheapest quote, a year down the line, the roof has gone again!
So we are back to not having use of a 3rd of the property,
due to water running down the walls, electric not safe to use so disconnected in one of the rooms.
And having to bath dogs in the other room, whilst when its raining (or snowing) having water dripping down our necks as we work!
So where do we go from here? Could use H & S risks etc,
but they might shut us down until LandL repairs.....
I have bills to pay, clients to serve and a business I can't risk loosing.
I now feel to way to go is to withhold rent until damage is sorted,
But am going to consult Solicitor on legalities of this move before anything further.

So please be prepared for the unexpected "kick in the teeth"

ask why they want YOU to foot the bill of "full repairing lease.

It might appear a renters market, but having been through The miners strike, the 80's crash,
I know that’s when LL's get even more greedy especially council commercial properties.

re the rest, work through every eventuality you can imagine,
DON'T EVER think "it won't happen to me/us"

Those guys Sod's and Murphy see the red flag and come running.

The Dec after the flood, my OH was diagnosed with cancer, almost died through infection and radio therapy,
try juggling the expanded business the damage, nursing hubby, looking after the kids,
for a year.........I did it, it made me stronger and I found my limits and yes at times wished I'd never expanded from home working, into the studio.
If I'd been at home still, it would have been so much easier,
But now 3 years down the line we've all grown and learnt, would I do it again?

Yes because I now have my dream, and the struggle and the lessons learnt made us all stronger.

Just because it may not be NOW you have your dream, one day the time will be right,
And that will be when YOU do it right,
And not because you THOUGHT it right.


good luck!

xJackie
40 years of Grooming excellence
 
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My Owl 1

Free Member
Nov 17, 2008
1,032
91
Cardiff
I have done the research and I can afford 6 months duration on the outset maybe a year's worth but as it stands I will have to have some courage to really take it on and go with it!!

I think the forces against it are currently those around me telling me not to! I am sooo in between worlds at the moment.

Hey, If I can help with cheaper electricity, gas and telecoms give me a bell.
02920212965.

Good Luck

Avril :)
www.savemoneywithus.co.uk
 
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Hi Eiman

I used to have offices not too far from where you are, OK maybe 6 or 7 miles in a place called the Lee Valley Technopark in Tottenham Hale. They were on 24 hour notice, in other words thats all you had to give before leaving, the rents were low, its a really clean modern building, right next to the Tube. It might be worth taking a look at, I believe it's run by Harringey council.
 
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Faith28

Free Member
Dec 2, 2005
2,111
150
London
Hi Eiman

I used to have offices not too far from where you are, OK maybe 6 or 7 miles in a place called the Lee Valley Technopark in Tottenham Hale. They were on 24 hour notice, in other words thats all you had to give before leaving, the rents were low, its a really clean modern building, right next to the Tube. It might be worth taking a look at, I believe it's run by Harringey council.

Thanks Jonathan.

The place I am looking at is ideal for me. The mantra 'fail to plan, plan to fail' keeps coming to mind.

So I may have to brainstorm a plan with someone if that's ok...
 
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emeraldaid

Free Member
Feb 9, 2009
2
0
Firstly, you should try to ensure as much flexibility in the Lease as the negotiations will permit. By flexibility, I mean frequent break options (say every 3 years) for a 15 year term - the options should not be conditional on full performance of all covenants, just payment of rent.
The rental levels are also extremely important. You might want to take valuer's advice or at least look around at what comparable premises are going for. In the current depressed market, I would negotiate hard on rental levels.
The landlord may look to you to back the covenant with a personal guarantee - that is if the lease is in your company's name and the company defaults, the Landlord can come after you personally. In lieu of a guarantee, landlords quite often seek rent deposit deeds (usually 3-6 months rent) which is deposited into a trust account by the Landlord in your name.
Leases almost invariably have a "substantial repair and condition" clause in them, which effectively requires the tenant to keep the premises in good nick during the term and to hand them back similarly. If you have doubts that the premises are in a poor condition, you have two options (1) insist that a schedule of condition is attached to lease which records the current state of the premises and ties your repairing obligation to that level, or (2) insert a clause in the lease that the premises are to be kept in "tenantable" condition, which is a lower level than "substantial repair.."
Also watch out for hidden costs such as insurance and service charges which the Landlord usually provides and to which you will have to contribute - consider asking for a service charge cap to avoid any nasty surprises in the future. You don't want to end up paying fro the new roof on the building if you can help it!
There's lots more, but I would say they are the main ones.
best of luck
 
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Faith28

Free Member
Dec 2, 2005
2,111
150
London
Well it looks like I will be losing the place as someone has taken some interest in the place.

But I am not going to rush into getting it until my family are convinced and the finances are completely in place.

Feel a bit down about it..wish I could get more help with partnering with someone as it is clear that the business is suffering with only me in charge!
 
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F

Future Freak

It sounds like you're going for a high street premises, when you don't actually need a high street shop. I rent an office in an office/storage building. I'm on a 12 month license and I pay monthly rent. Deposit was 1 months rent. No legal fees to pay, no repair fees to pay.

Surely there must be premises near to you that are similiar to this?
 
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Faith28

Free Member
Dec 2, 2005
2,111
150
London
Although it is a retail shop it is not on the main high street...a local shop at the end of a parade in residential area with lots of schools!

You all may be right, it would be for the best whatever happens but if I don't get my skates on then I will not have any premises.
 
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Alison Jones

Free Member
Mar 14, 2008
903
150
We spent nearly 2 years looking for the right property, we found one after about more than 1 year. We got turned down by the 1st one as they said that it had got an offer on it from elsewhere (this was back in June 2008 and it is still sitting empty now so agent must have lied to us.) We then found the perfect premises in July 2008 which after a bidding war we lost out on originally early September 2008. Looked at two more properties and was very close to signing lease on one (only reason we had not was that the agent was stalling in answering some of the questions), then at this point in October 2008 we got the perfect premises back (the people who had beaten us in the bidding war pulled out).

With the current climate as it is now there are more and more premises becoming vacant so if you miss out on one there will be another becoming vacant.

Alison
 
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Faith28

Free Member
Dec 2, 2005
2,111
150
London
I think thats exactly right, I lost my first one too - upshot was, got a bigger place, less work, less rent, better location.

Maria - how did you find financing it. Was it through savings or a bank loan..actually it would be politer if I explained my situation and asked for your opinion on it..

I have the funds to take the lease for 6 months. But no capital to do it all up. Should I just take it on and start slowly or should I wait until I have all the money up front.

I am inexperienced in this area and as you can tell quite averse to almost any risk.
 
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Alison Jones

Free Member
Mar 14, 2008
903
150
I have the funds to take the lease for 6 months. But no capital to do it all up. Should I just take it on and start slowly or should I wait until I have all the money up front.

I am inexperienced in this area and as you can tell quite averse to almost any risk.[/quote]

HI

Is your premises going to be open to the public? If so would say you would not want to get it without the funds to do it all up, shops etc that open to the public that are run down in need of revamp can put people off. If just for yourself then you could probably manage doing it up over a period of time. When we got our premises the heating system in place was completely broken, far too old so we had unexpected expense in getting a new boiler. We had a spare budget for unexpected costs like this so was not a problem for us. If you look at the premises you are interested in and work out how much actually needs doing you would know if it worth getting without the capital to improve (some premises a bit of paint that you could pick up for £20 would make it look right). Also you have to take into account the other overheads of business premises other than just the lease - rates, electricity/gas, telephone, fire extinguishers if not already in place (we had to spend couple of hundred pounds as the ones left by the previous tenant out of date).

Alison
 
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maria102

Free Member
Oct 25, 2005
3,614
465
Manchester
Maria - how did you find financing it. Was it through savings or a bank loan..actually it would be politer if I explained my situation and asked for your opinion on it..

I have the funds to take the lease for 6 months. But no capital to do it all up. Should I just take it on and start slowly or should I wait until I have all the money up front.

I am inexperienced in this area and as you can tell quite averse to almost any risk.

I saved up the money for the shop, we needed a fair bit as we had to buy the majority of the stock pro forma as well (I was working as a contractor before I started up and it was quite well paid). What is the state of repair of the shop? Ours was fairly neutral when I got it, but I needed to buy rails, counter etc and do some painting, though in fairness we didn't spend that much on doing it up, just a few pots of paint.

We paid three months rent up front, and then by the time the fourth month rent was due were trading.....oh and I got the first month free (in my head I was thinking this set the budget for doing it up)
 
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Faith28

Free Member
Dec 2, 2005
2,111
150
London
HI

Is your premises going to be open to the public? If so would say you would not want to get it without the funds to do it all up, shops etc that open to the public that are run down in need of revamp can put people off. If just for yourself then you could probably manage doing it up over a period of time. When we got our premises the heating system in place was completely broken, far too old so we had unexpected expense in getting a new boiler. We had a spare budget for unexpected costs like this so was not a problem for us. If you look at the premises you are interested in and work out how much actually needs doing you would know if it worth getting without the capital to improve (some premises a bit of paint that you could pick up for £20 would make it look right). Also you have to take into account the other overheads of business premises other than just the lease - rates, electricity/gas, telephone, fire extinguishers if not already in place (we had to spend couple of hundred pounds as the ones left by the previous tenant out of date).

Alison

Hi Alison

Thanks for your insight. Yes it would initially be just for me and a team of people to work from and meet. Stock will be kept inside the place. I think if I had someone on board with me then things will be a lot different. The trouble with me is that my time is generally spent on kids and home. I have very little on business, I generally out source everything else..however I think having the premises would be perfect to work from as I can then focus a lot more.
 
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Faith28

Free Member
Dec 2, 2005
2,111
150
London
I saved up the money for the shop, we needed a fair bit as we had to buy the majority of the stock pro forma as well (I was working as a contractor before I started up and it was quite well paid). What is the state of repair of the shop? Ours was fairly neutral when I got it, but I needed to buy rails, counter etc and do some painting, though in fairness we didn't spend that much on doing it up, just a few pots of paint.

We paid three months rent up front, and then by the time the fourth month rent was due were trading.....oh and I got the first month free (in my head I was thinking this set the budget for doing it up)

Sounds very similar to my situation.

I have been given 2 months rent free and require 3 months inadvance plus 3 months deposit. In total that is £3000

In addition to this

Legal fees
Signage
Security
Furniture
Utility fees
Telephone

-------
 
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Alison Jones

Free Member
Mar 14, 2008
903
150
Hi Alison

Thanks for your insight. Yes it would initially be just for me and a team of people to work from and meet. Stock will be kept inside the place. I think if I had someone on board with me then things will be a lot different. The trouble with me is that my time is generally spent on kids and home. I have very little on business, I generally out source everything else..however I think having the premises would be perfect to work from as I can then focus a lot more.


Hi

With it not being open to the public makes it a lot easier for you.

Some things to keep in mind is check that the premises has working heating - if you have staff you need to make sure the premises fits the health and safety level of temperature (and if you opening in the colder months it is important), and heating systems are not cheap.

Also another one to check is that the toilet facilities are up to scratch and flush working etc as unless you have family or friends who know how to plumb, plumbers cost a fair bit.

Also if the premises you are renting is unfurnished you will have the costs of furnishing. You will be amazed at the quality of the furniture you can get at charity shops, - we bought a pine dining table with 2 chairs as we needed a pine table to display goods (which was an afterthought few months after opening) and we needed to have it in keeping with the other furniture we bought new at Ikea. This table and chairs costs only £40 and it much better quality then the Ikea furniture.

Also bought 2 of the meeting room chairs (the cushioned ones you find in solicitors, accountants reception areas) for £5 for the 2 in a charity shop.

Alison
 
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Faith28

Free Member
Dec 2, 2005
2,111
150
London
Oh yes that's a point, insurance to add to the list along with the health and safety bits and pieces.


Well I just viewed it again agreed 3 months rent free and raised £5k in one morning! Bloomin' heck it's amazing what one can do in such a short space of time when one puts their mind to it.

Now a piece of advice I have just been given is to get firm orders before I sign on the dotted line so am putting together a database of all potential clients in the region to begin getting the orders.

Here I go...
 
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Alison Jones

Free Member
Mar 14, 2008
903
150
Well I just viewed it again agreed 3 months rent free and raised £5k in one morning!

Your lucky with rent free period. Wish we had managed to get that. We got about 4 days rent free in the end (but that was because the landlords were in breach of the lease and had caused us problems) we accepted this rather then have the hassle of taking legal matters.

Alison
 
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