Business Logos for my new business

[GemmaBlack]

Hello

I've completed my business plan, and have managed to get finance in place. As such, I'm now looking to get my branding and business logos and stationery organised.

It's possibly the most important next step for me, as the logo and branding will set the tone for my business, and as such, I'd really like to work directly with a designer based here in the UK.

I've had a look at some of the logo design companies and most don't appear suitable. In fact, some appear to just re-use the same logos and do not design each one individually. Some even appear to take the money and not deliver the goods and others are just copying someone else’s logo which you can see if you search online for "rock paper ink" and look at the "love thy logo" post. Unbelievable. I’d hate to pay for a logo then find myself the victim of a copyright law infringement claim.

Does anyone have any suggestions or recommendations of companies I should consider? I’ve posted this request in a few places hoping to get some decent recommendations

Thanks in advance

Gemma

 

[webstore]

Try http://www.crowdspring.com albeit we have never used them ourselves.
.

 

[blendwd]

Hi Gemma,

We design logo's so by all means you can ask us. However on a fair basis have you tried 48hourslogo(dot)com

 

Hi Gemma

First of all I'd advise you to stay away from the sorts of sites 'webstore' suggested. You won't find any design professionals on there and some of the 'designers' that do use those sites usually have no regard for copyright infringement what so ever (there's plenty of articles online to support this).

Anyway, I would be happy to talk about the possibility of designing your logo. My website is currently being redesigned so unfortunately my portfolio isn't available online at the minute. However, I'd be happy to send you a PDF containing my work.

If interested feel free to PM me your e-mail address or contact me using the following:

E-mail: [email protected]
Telephone: 07970861596

Cheers

 

[lizgilmour]

your branding has to match your positioning so it is important to work with someone who can think through the whole messaging - I am more than happy to have a chat if you would like to contact me for some advice.

 

[Montaigne]

I like what this firm does http://customlogoshop.com/index.html and they're a UKBF member too. Whilst I haven't used them yet I'm planning on doing so in November for a couple of logo's.

 

[Business News]

Gemma, as you are starting out on a new business then the first question you should consider is do you require a logo at this stage or is it a luxury that you can look to develop when your buinsess is on track and growing. Having a logo isn't going to gain you any business at the start up stage as you'll be doing that entirely on price, product and service offering. You don't have an image to protect or promote until you have a business.

I'm sure there are others who will disagee but cash is king and you should reserve expenditure to essentials that will deliver a return on the investment like staff, premesis, IT, stock and literature. The logo can come later.

 

Gemma, as you are starting out on a new business then the first question you should consider is do you require a logo at this stage or is it a luxury that you can look to develop when your buinsess is on track and growing. Having a logo isn't going to gain you any business at the start up stage as you'll be doing that entirely on price, product and service offering. You don't have an image to protect or promote until you have a business.

I'm sure there are others who will disagee but cash is king and you should reserve expenditure to essentials that will deliver a return on the investment like staff, premesis, IT, stock and literature. The logo can come later.

I could argue against this but in this case I'll let the facts do the talking: http://www.designfactfinder.co.uk:8080/design-council/mainAction.do

This is also a good read: http://blog.corporatelogos.ws/business-without-corporate-logo

 

[playboy_bunnie]

Can I recommend www.corporateelement.com for your branding. They have over 10 years experience in the print and design industry, and would not doubt give you a unique brand!

 

[Joe E]

Hi Gemma

I recommend Dot-Design they don't just create logos but take the time helping you formulate a brief in order to provide a basis to build your brand around.
If you chat to Gareth he'll be able to advise/answer any questions you have.

Hope it's useful

 

[Faevilangel]

Hi Gemma

I recommend Dot-Design they don't just create logos but take the time helping you formulate a brief in order to provide a basis to build your brand around.
If you chat to Gareth he'll be able to advise/answer any questions you have.

Hope it's useful

Gotta agree with Joe, Gareth Coxon has an amazing name (Gareth) and is a thoroughly nice chap who is also an amazing developer.

You can't go wrong working with Gareth

 

[Business News]

I could argue against this but in this case I'll let the facts do the talking: http://www.designfactfinder.co.uk:8080/design-council/mainAction.do

This is also a good read: http://blog.corporatelogos.ws/business-without-corporate-logo

I think you'll find that these entities have vested interest in promoting design as a service rather than a business tool. There is some decidedly flakey comment taking the claimed rationale to invest heavily in image. One instance is "Every £100 a design alert business spends on design increases turnover by £225." which is simplistic to an unfathomable degree. This means that design investment only applies to businesses operating at over 50% margin which clearly is twaddle and that any business operating at 25% margin would never recoved design investment costs, again twaddle.

I still suggest that image if not backed by substance is a waste of money and until the business is established as a viable entity it is a concept not a business. At this stage serious levels of expenditure on designers is not essential to determine if a new start up will or won't succeed.

 

[Paul Murray]

Another mention for Gareth of Dot Design. He's a knowledgable and experienced designer, and a nice bloke to boot!

I also recommend you stay well away from logo 'contest' sites and online logo makers and seek a professional. Whilst you may find they ask a little more in terms of price, you're getting a unique, professional design, from an experienced designer.

Using a contest or maker can land you in big legal trouble if the design infringes copyright of another existing identity, and since you're the one who's been using the copyrighted design it would be you, not the designer, who gets sued.

Also, sites such as Crowdspring are crowded with amateurs with no actual knowledge of branding and identity design, who are happy to throw together the first idea they have in 10 minutes and call it done. The ideas aren't original or clever and often rely a lot on fancy effects (which a logo shouldn't need).

Look at a logo and your branding as an investment. Get it right the first time and it will serve you well for years to come.

 

[Nuno]

I'm totally with Business News. Getting a logo now would be both premature and a misuse of resources.

Have you noticed how many companies don't have logos, or if they do, have the company name in words as a logo, (logos: from the Greek; word)?

Have your company name, in a clear, legible typeface, displayed prominently on all your stationery, product and marketing. That will bring name recognition and recall. Later, when you have a less tight budget you can re-examine your needs and how you want to portray your company which will have changed by then.

But now? Don't waste money.

 

I think you'll find that these entities have vested interest in promoting design as a service rather than a business tool. There is some decidedly flakey comment taking the claimed rationale to invest heavily in image. One instance is "Every £100 a design alert business spends on design increases turnover by £225." which is simplistic to an unfathomable degree. This means that design investment only applies to businesses operating at over 50% margin which clearly is twaddle and that any business operating at 25% margin would never recoved design investment costs, again twaddle.

I still suggest that image if not backed by substance is a waste of money and until the business is established as a viable entity it is a concept not a business. At this stage serious levels of expenditure on designers is not essential to determine if a new start up will or won't succeed.

First of all, I couldn't make any sense of that first paragraph. Secondly, surely if you're going to start a business you're going to have done your research as to whether it's viable or not - it's common sense. Nobody in their right mind is going to start a business without thinking that it's going to make money.
Even though I know you would like to think your suggestion is logical just have a think about what type of message it sends out to potential customers. What successful entrepreneur do you know got to where they are by cutting corners like that? A logo isn't a luxury, it's the foundation of your brand identity.

Imagine Nike without the "swoosh" or MacDonalds without the Golden Arches.

 

[Nuno]

Imagine Nike without the "swoosh" or MacDonalds without the Golden Arches.

Swoosh.
Nike, founded 1964, decided to start own brand 1971 and commissioned the Swoosh. Now integral to brand identity but wasn't there at all for the first seven years as the business was established and found it's place in the market.

Golden Arches.
McDonalds, (note spelling), founded 1940, started franchising 1953 when the arches were used as a building design feature. First used as a logo 1962.

This reinforces the argument that the business should get up and running, establish itself in a marketplace before considering logos and branding as important marketing exercises.

Sure, those working in the visual trades will give more importance to logos just as those in HR will push the importance of a staff policy document from day one of a new business. Both overegg the pudding. Brand recognition from using a logo should not be foremost in a startup's list of priorities.

 

Nice to see that you know your way around Wikipedia.

I'm fully aware of those facts but just because the swoosh or the arches weren't used in the very beginning doesn't mean there wasn't other logos that came before it. Take Apple for example, there's not that many people aware of The Newton Crest logo they used when they first got started.

The point is that the logos I mentioned are now synonymous with the brand. When you think of Nike you think of the swoosh and when you think of McDonalds you think of the Golden Arches. That's the whole point of a logo, to give your business an identity, something that is going to distinguish you from your competitors and make your products easier to recall. A standard typeface isn't going to do that, and before we get into a debate about "words as logos" you should have a look at this: http://typography-daily.com/2011/10/04/thank-a-type-designer/. As you can see, those "words as logos" aren't just fonts they're specially designed Wordmarks.

Now, I'm not saying logo design should be a priority over anything else but it should definitely be up there, especially in this day and age.

 

[Nuno]

Nice to see that you know your way around Wikipedia.

I'm fully aware of those facts but just because the swoosh or the arches weren't used in the very beginning doesn't mean there wasn't other logos that came before it. Take Apple for example, there's not that many people aware of The Newton Crest logo they used when they first got started.

The point is that the logos I mentioned are now synonymous with the brand. When you think of Nike you think of the swoosh and when you think of McDonalds you think of the Golden Arches. That's the whole point of a logo, to give your business an identity, something that is going to distinguish you from your competitors and make your products easier to recall. A standard typeface isn't going to do that, and before we get into a debate about "words as logos" you should have a look at this: http://typography-daily.com/2011/10/04/thank-a-type-designer/. As you can see, those "words as logos" aren't just fonts they're specially designed Wordmarks.

Now, I'm not saying logo design should be a priority over anything else but it should definitely be up there, especially in this day and age.

So I fact checked with Wiki, what of it?

BTW what does your logo say to the world?

 

[Esk247]

A logo is still an important feature. Especially if you are involved in Retail and your customers need instant recognition to define you from competitors.

It's simple. What do you put on your bags? your business cards? your letterheads? your in-store stationery? your advertising and flyers? your posters? your....you get the idea.

Why does a logo have to be an 'unnecessary expense' ... if you can't afford a decent enough logo then i'd be worried about your startup capital. Logo design will come in with the design of your website and stationery, right at the start.

Would you really send out flyer advertising without any easily identifiable logo? really?...really really really?

 

So I fact checked with Wiki, what of it?

BTW what does your logo say to the world?

It says "This is Sivioco and this is a custom wordmark for a design business not a font Joe Bloggs can also easily download, type some words into his computer and use as a 'logo' for his shoe company, which would automatically result in me losing nearly all sense of individuality"

 

[Nuno]

Would you really send out flyer advertising without any easily identifiable logo? really?...really really really?

Yes!...yes yes yes!
As I recommended above I would be happy to use my business name in type; large and perhaps bold to gain recognition.

It says "This is Sivioco and this is a custom wordmark for a design business not a font Joe Bloggs can also easily download, type some words into his computer and use as a 'logo' for his shoe company, which would automatically result in me losing nearly all sense of individuality"

Well, that's what it says to you. Others' mileage may vary.

 

[Gary Xie]

Gemma,
Think what you want the logo as, and then tell your designer, what coming from yourself is the most important.

 

[Rookery]

Gemma, as you are starting out on a new business then the first question you should consider is do you require a logo at this stage or is it a luxury that you can look to develop when your buinsess is on track and growing. Having a logo isn't going to gain you any business at the start up stage as you'll be doing that entirely on price, product and service offering. You don't have an image to protect or promote until you have a business.

I'm sure there are others who will disagee but cash is king and you should reserve expenditure to essentials that will deliver a return on the investment like staff, premesis, IT, stock and literature. The logo can come later.

I agree entirely.

 

[Business News]

Now, I'm not saying logo design should be a priority over anything else but it should definitely be up there, especially in this day and age.

It think that means everyone is in agreement.

 

It think that means everyone is in agreement.

If you are now saying that logo design should be a priority (although not necessarily top of the list) rather than an afterthought then yes, we are in agreement.

Esk247 hit the nail on the head, if you can't afford a decent logo how do you plan on being able to pay for all the other essentials you listed?. A logo design is usually a one time payment, your staff and the rent need to be paid on a monthly basis so surely if funds are THAT tight it would make more sense to start off with as little monthly outgoings as possible. You can hire more staff as your business grows and demand becomes higher. The same goes for your premises, obviously this depends on the type of business you have but there's plenty of people who start out working from home or somewhere similar. If my memory serves me right, Google's first workspace was in somebody's garage.

 

[Business News]

Esk247 hit the nail on the head, if you can't afford a decent logo how do you plan on being able to pay for all the other essentials you listed?. A logo design is usually a one time payment, your staff and the rent need to be paid on a monthly basis so surely if funds are THAT tight it would make more sense to start off with as little monthly outgoings as possible. You can hire more staff as your business grows and demand becomes higher. The same goes for your premises, obviously this depends on the type of business you have but there's plenty of people who start out working from home or somewhere similar. If my memory serves me right, Google's first workspace was in somebody's garage.

From your words I would hazard a guess that they are from the fingers of a sole trader.

 

[Esk247]

From your words I would hazard a guess that they are from the fingers of a sole trader.

you say that as if it is derogatory?

if you're referring to myself as a sole trader then you are of course..mistaken

so only sole traders are bothered about having logos? i don't understand your argument. apparently a logo is a very bad thing, you don't even need one, don't bother with business cards either or flyers huh.

 

[MontagioCustomTailoring]

Having done this a couple of times, dont be afraid to pay for a good local designer to work on your logo... someone with solid experience in your area - as they will know what has worked well in the past, and will have the local knoweldge to make it sensitive to your market. In the past i've paid upto $1,000 for a logo that i liked... but when i go too cheap (under $500) i find that i'm doing a lot of the original creative work myself.

 

[Paul Murray]

Having done this a couple of times, dont be afraid to pay for a good local designer to work on your logo... someone with solid experience in your area - as they will know what has worked well in the past, and will have the local knoweldge to make it sensitive to your market. In the past i've paid upto $1,000 for a logo that i liked... but when i go too cheap (under $500) i find that i'm doing a lot of the original creative work myself.

Sound advice. You can get professional, high quality logo designs for a good price if you shop around for freelancers. Ultimately you get what you pay for.

Logo's are sometimes seen as expensive but they require a great deal of knowledge and experience to do right, and a designer can spend weeks designing a unique logo for a client (believe me!).

If you're paying £50 you're not getting something original, amazing or professional.

 

[KreativeJuice]

Hi Gemma,

Happy to talk to you about this, its our bread and butter.
Feel free to browse our portfolio and give us a call.
Kind regards
Karen
[email protected]

 

[PaulCrabtree]

Hi Gemma

I understand your frustration - there are a lot of options out there, but many seem to be receiving poor reviews. I know the guys over at Small Business Logos (www smallbusinesslogos co uk) in London as I work with their parent organisation, Crimson Publishing and Startups.co.uk. I can say first hand that they are a reputable bunch so they may be worth a look.

I've seen much of the work produced by their team of designers and it's always looked spot on. Speaking to them when I visited their offices down in Richmond, they're producing a tailored set of logos every time, and so there is no copying of anyone's work going on! There's quite a large feedback section on their web site covering the business logos and corporate stationary they've produced for others - quite a few companies. Price wise, they're advertising quite a good deal at the moment starting at £75.

Hope this helps

Paul Crabtree
Velo Marketing

 

[Montaigne]

If you're paying £50 you're not getting something original, amazing or professional.

It depends on the company and the business model. For example I get a lot of people saying that commission only sales rep's don't exist or they're only the sales rep's who can't get a job elsewhere yet I make a good living from being a commission only sales rep'.

Instead of it being about price i.e. more cost = better service you should judge each firm on their merits and make a judgement call as to whether you consider it to be worth it.

 

[spottypenguin]

hey everyone I'm new, I have read these forums before but never quite got round to joining. Then I saw some of the comments in this thread. Oh boy.

Can I just say as someone who has worked as a graphic designer their entire career that it is more than soul-destroying to hear of people recommending crowdsourcing websites for logo design.

Gemma obviously you don't know me but please accept this friendly advice: crowdsourcing is full of amateurs who have got hold of copies of Photoshop / Illustrator, teach themselves and steal ideas from other people or companies and worse, copy stock images potentially leaving the client open to lawsuits.

I understand that someone like me saying "logo designs from £250 (/whatever a person charges)" sounds like a huge chunk of money but please remember that when you employ a professional designer, you are paying for their experience, knowledge, research, ability to translate concepts into working ideas and make YOU look as professional as possible. there is actually far more to it than that but I was trying to sum it up

I can understand that somebody offering a logo for £50 may seem like a "deal" but in real terms that is probably somewhere near an hour's work for an established designer. Do you really want a logo that somebody thought about, researched, sketched AND drew up on the computer in an hour? Doesn't sound as if you'd get a well thought out logo for that amount of time / money to me.

Look at people's portfolio's, if they don't inspire you immediately, that's not the designer for you.

The very best of luck with it.

 

[Paul Murray]

If you're paying £50 you're not getting something original, amazing or professional.

It depends on the company and the business model. For example I get a lot of people saying that commission only sales rep's don't exist or they're only the sales rep's who can't get a job elsewhere yet I make a good living from being a commission only sales rep'.

Instead of it being about price i.e. more cost = better service you should judge each firm on their merits and make a judgement call as to whether you consider it to be worth it.

The sheer amount of time required to design a professional quality logo means taking a job for £50 just isn't worth it for a professional designer. It can take days, even weeks to come up with something unique.

Anyone who claims to be able to offering professional designs at that price either isn't a professional or is literally throwing something together in an hour (or using an old concept).

Buyer beware.

 

[Ryan Everitt]

Hello

I've completed my business plan, and have managed to get finance in place. As such, I'm now looking to get my branding and business logos and stationery organised.

It's possibly the most important next step for me, as the logo and branding will set the tone for my business, and as such, I'd really like to work directly with a designer based here in the UK.

I've had a look at some of the logo design companies and most don't appear suitable. In fact, some appear to just re-use the same logos and do not design each one individually. Some even appear to take the money and not deliver the goods and others are just copying someone else’s logo which you can see if you search online for "rock paper ink" and look at the "love thy logo" post. Unbelievable. I’d hate to pay for a logo then find myself the victim of a copyright law infringement claim.

Does anyone have any suggestions or recommendations of companies I should consider? I’ve posted this request in a few places hoping to get some decent recommendations

Thanks in advance

Gemma

Gemma, I do hope your well! - My company Macadamia Creative based in Southend is pretty new to the small business sector as we normally work with blue-chip organisations "behind the scenes" if you will.

Id love to send you out a brochure of what we can actually do - to give you some food for thought if that's okay?

If so, then please do not hesitate to send me an address for yourself.

 

[Montaigne]

The sheer amount of time required to design a professional quality logo means taking a job for £50 just isn't worth it for a professional designer. It can take days, even weeks to come up with something unique.

Anyone who claims to be able to offering professional designs at that price either isn't a professional or is literally throwing something together in an hour (or using an old concept).

Buyer beware.

Lets take an established logo designer who does logo's for £5000 each. Good money but he must have started somewhere. He didn't start his career without a portfolio and charging 5k from the beginning. Maybe he started out offering £50 for logos until he got established then slowly put his price up until he got known. He's got the skill but not the reputation.

There's a firm on here called http://customlogoshop.com/logo-design-portfolio.html who charge £50 a logo. I really like some of the designs in their portfolio so wouldn't have a problem paying £50 for one, especially when I couldn't afford to spend a £1000 for instance on the one logo.

 

[Minuteman Press]

The sheer amount of time required to design a professional quality logo means taking a job for £50 just isn't worth it for a professional designer. It can take days, even weeks to come up with something unique.

Anyone who claims to be able to offering professional designs at that price either isn't a professional or is literally throwing something together in an hour (or using an old concept).

Buyer beware.

So true. Caveat emptor. False economies are not the best.

 

[Paul Murray]

Lets take an established logo designer who does logo's for £5000 each. Good money but he must have started somewhere. He didn't start his career without a portfolio and charging 5k from the beginning. Maybe he started out offering £50 for logos until he got established then slowly put his price up until he got known. He's got the skill but not the reputation.

There's a firm on here called http://customlogoshop.com/logo-design-portfolio.html who charge £50 a logo. I really like some of the designs in their portfolio so wouldn't have a problem paying £50 for one, especially when I couldn't afford to spend a £1000 for instance on the one logo.

I've been through this in another thread recently. For £50 you'll end up with sh*t. It's that simple.

I don't want to start digging at the site you posted but I can assure you those logos are pretty awful from a professional point of view. Basic details that a designer would consider have been completely ignored (or the 'designer' just isn't aware of them).

You're basically paying someone to knock something up that they think fits with your line of business (the designs are rather generic and obvious) rather than having something unique designed that will help you stand out from your competitors. This is what my main annoyance is; people claiming to offer professional design that's far from it. Frankly, it's misleading, and has a knock on effect when people start expecting high quality logos, that take weeks to develop, for the same price.

A professional freelance designer simply cannot afford to charge £50 for designing a brand identity. The amount of work involved doesn't make it worth working for £50. That's before you've even factored in overheads we have.

You don't have to spend a fortune to get a unique, high quality logo designed, but it's important to see it as an investment. Get it right first time and you won't need to worry about it again.

A logo is often the first things potential customers see, and is your first chance to make a good impression on them. If it looks, cheap, tacky, dated, generic, what does that say about the company it represents?

 

[Montaigne]

Maybe I'm just missing the point but the logo's on that website I really like and I think that to have that standard of logo is better than having no logo (which I don't have at the moment).

I am having a similar sort of discussion with a friend at the moment about web design. I do my own websites using wordpress templates and the like and his attitude is that I should give up on things like Wordpress and either learn to build websites from scratch myself or pay someone to professionally do it.

Each time I explain that I have no interest in learning how to do a website from scratch and even if I decided to learn I'd be losing lots of money learning it when I could actually be generating sales. Also, yes I could get it professionally designed but then I don't have 3-5k just lying around.

You adapt your requirements to your budget and there's a lot I would do differently, for instance, if I had unlimited funds but sadly I don't so I match the funds I have to services that I can afford.

I think my objection to these types of conversations is the assumption that just because something is cheap it must automatically be rubbish.

 

[BoxClever]

Take either the name of your company or what you do and Goggle it in images. You get a fantastic array of ideas and some are free and can be saved/modified.
However, creating a brand presence as others have said can be an expensive business, I think the name is more important at this stage in your building block game.