Bitcoin Rant

[owas]

I finally decided to buy some bitcoins, 3 in total. Being the price they currently are, and that they haven't really dropped below £200 seems a good as time as ever. Turned out to be more stressful than I thought, I had to,

• Set up a new bank account
• Paypal Froze my account for 3 days
• transfer funds to new bank account
• Set up an account with bitbargain (amazing verification process)
• two attempts to buy the coins
• Bank took almost a day to transfer the funds
• set up a bitcoin desktop wallet application (bitcoin core)
• send funds to wallet
• Wallet not syncd so balance showing as Zero
• Wallet wont sync due to errro
• Recover private key
• Set up account with greenaddress.ie
• transfer funds to this account
• Confirm they are here

and two weeks later I have 3 bitcoins somehow £77 less than what I started with and a few more extra grey hairs. I should have just brought some stuff of Rodney and sold it down the pub, less stressful for sure.

 

[Ideaswise]

Yeah, but this time next year you'll be millionaires! And even Del Boy and Rodney got there in the end.

 

[owas]

ouch

http://newsbtc.com/2015/01/03/new-years-first-shock-bitcoin-crashes-300/

 

[garyk]

Said it before and I'll say it again, it will end in tears....


Everyone involved should be riding round on horses wearing hats

 

[hamesy2o2]

I can see Bitcoins (and all Cryptocurrency) going one way, and that's crashing and burning. During the early days it was worth it, but now, not so much.

 

[John_G]

Turned out to be more stressful than I thought, I had to,

• Set up a new bank account
• Paypal Froze my account for 3 days
• transfer funds to new bank account
• Set up an account with bitbargain (amazing verification process)
• two attempts to buy the coins
• Bank took almost a day to transfer the funds
• set up a bitcoin desktop wallet application (bitcoin core)
• send funds to wallet
• Wallet not syncd so balance showing as Zero
• Wallet wont sync due to errro
• Recover private key
• Set up account with greenaddress.ie
• transfer funds to this account
• Confirm they are here

and two weeks later I have 3 bitcoins somehow £77 less than what I started with and a few more extra grey hairs.

Even if the dubious logic normally used to push Bitcoins wasn't enough to put you off, did none of the 14 steps involved during the two weeks not lead you to wonder exactly how likely they are to become mainstream

 

[munaworks]

Not saying I believe in Bitcoin but from a software background I can say all of these steps can and probably will be streamlined with relative ease in the coming years.
The true value of bitcoin is and always had been in the protocol behind it. The Blockchain. It could well become the most important technological advancements since the web's HTTP.

 

[owas]

I t went down to £174 at one point last week, though has started to rise slowly since. Despite the initial bad start I am confident that it shall be a happy ending. But to be honest as first time "investment" goes I am quite enjoying the trial and tribulations.

 

[Cobby]

I can see Bitcoins (and all Cryptocurrency) going one way, and that's crashing and burning. During the early days it was worth it, but now, not so much.

Define "worth it".

 

[hamesy2o2]

Define "worth it".

When the price was low and you could buy loads of bitcoins for hardly any money.

 

[Karimbo]

I used to consider myself tech savvy, but now I just don't know. I grew up with the internet. First thing I did when I got a dial up connection was build a website on freedom2surf. But I'm clueless with trends on the internet.

I don't get how photo albums and photo viewing was something your nan did, but come facebook everyone is sharing photos. There are sites dedicated to nothing but photosharing (instagram). So tech can turn things on their heads completely.

It's too hard to say where bitcoin will go, it might be the next paypal (I remember the days when only geeks had paypal [before ebay], and I used it to buy bootleg cds & dvds online). Now paypal is mainstream and everyone has an account.

I have to say this though, for bitcoin to be viable, it needs some stability and it needs to be easy to understand and use. At the moment "geeks" can only understand it. You can only buy "geek" stuff with it too. Oh and drugs. It cannot survive as a currency if it's only accessible to a tiny percentage of the population.

 

[Cobby]

When the price was low and you could buy loads of bitcoins for hardly any money.

To what end? All you've said here is that the exchange rate has varied. One used to be able to get more dollars for the pound...both dollars and pounds are still valid.

 

[03numbersforfree]

when i fist looked at bit coins they were less then 50...

 

[owas]

I said the same when they were at £500. I brought them at £220 then to see them at £117 at one point about a week or so ago it was not very encouraging, but they have since risen to £153 which just shows how volatile it can be.

 

[Karimbo]

I said the same when they were at £500. I brought them at £220 then to see them at £117 at one point about a week or so ago it was not very encouraging, but they have since risen to £153 which just shows how volatile it can be.

Look at it this way, some poor sod saw it explode to £500 and thought he/she should invest before it gets to £1000 now it's down to £153 and is panicking badly.

 

[MikeJ]

I brought them at £220

Where did you bring them to?

 

[Chris34]

I finally decided to buy some bitcoins, 3 in total. Being the price they currently are, and that they haven't really dropped below £200 seems a good as time as ever...

So, did you keep the 3 coins : )

After today I could see them hitting $1M. $10k now seems cheap. Once the large herd of sheep start to wake up to it and dismiss all the scaremongering, I really can't see how it can't go anywhere but up. It has reached that point where it's now self advertising to the masses, the masses are millions of people across the planet all wanting some get rich quick investment. So you have millions of people all wanting a slice of a small pie.


Chris.

 

[Mark T Jones]

So, did you keep the 3 coins : )

. Once the large herd of sheep start to wake up to it and dismiss all the scaremongering, I really can't see how it can't go anywhere but up.


Chris.

The large herd of sheep is precisely what is driving the value of ****** - in particular those daft enough to go in via MLM / Ponzi schemes. In a globalised world it is a surprisingly large herd.

Clever and astute investors will make good money in the boom, gullible suckers will hold and watch it crash

 

[Web Hosting UK]

I've never been interested in bitcoins funnily enough, I feel a bit of risk and a sudden crash maybe just around the corner.

 

[Chris34]

"The large herd of sheep is precisely what is driving the value of ******"

I think you're wrong there. I don't think it has hit mass appeal yet and the herd of sheep likes mass appeal. I think it's close to hitting mass appeal and at that point the price will rocket like crazy.

Normally something like this eventually hits its ultimate price and then fizzles out, but normally this happens within a single country. As this is on a global scale and you have the likes of the Japanese going mad for it then I think it's still in its early days price wise.

At the end of the day if you're a regular worker with some cash in the bank earning 0.5% interest and no other real investments out there that are going to give a decent return for the risk then Bitcoin looks like it's well worth the risk.

If the risk is $10k to potentially gain 10x or 100x the $10k then it looks well worth it. The only fools are the people who cannot see this.

Basically it's simple, it's supply and demand and the supply is limited and the demand is unlimited, the price will only go up.

Yes it's high risk but if you looked at it seriously and asked is it worth the risk then you would have to say it is. What other investment can get you that kind of potential return for $10k?



Chris.

 

[Chris34]

Ha, Ether another ****** currency was at $10 in February, it's now at $470.

 

[MBE2017]

Bitcoin has just gone past the $10,000 valuation for the first time, either it will keep running or you will see a work of hurt when people wake up to reality and a massive drop in price.

Bitcoin has had an 850% increase in the last year, I know two lads who have cleared their mortgages this year. I would advise the usual investment mantra, only risk what you can afford to lose completely.

 

[Alan]

I have 3 bitcoins somehow £77

@owas I hope you held - £77 -> £21,000 worth the pain


Less capital gains tax of course

 

[Alan]

Bitcoin has had an 850% increase in the last year, I know two lads who have cleared their mortgages this year. I would advise the usual investment mantra, only risk what you can afford to lose completely.

Isn't this why it will run and run, and then ( but quite a while) hit a plateau?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Anyone heard of the Tulip crash could be exactly the same as Bitcoin,

Question what happens tomorrow if all bitcoin owners decide to exchange for $ and take their profit, a bit like Northern Rock investors

 

[Alan]

Tulips were a commodity with a finite value.

A bit coin has no intrinsic value except its demand. It is a different model.

Of course if there are more sellers than buyers the price goes down, that is the mechanism.

If there are more buyers than sellers the price goes up.

Stories about people paying off their mortgage mean that the demand, even minor speculative will be there.

It is true that the 'older generation' have difficulty grasping the concepts block chain currency ( me included ) but the economic models are simple.

Question what happens tomorrow if all bitcoin owners decide to exchange for $ and take their profit, a bit like Northern Rock investors

What happens tomorrow if the CNN run a documentary about how people have paid their mortgages off by risking $100?

By the way, I think it is no coincidence that each price hike comes at the end of the USA University terms. Expect a slow drift off over xmas, and a slow rise through to Easter with another spike then. ( please DONT take my investment advice )

.. edit ... my references are deliberately US centric, the UK is always a laggard in these things

 

[owas]

No, sold out way to early about 1.5k but I did buy the kids a bike each, the memories and happiness it brought them was priceless

 

[Chris34]

No, sold out way to early about 1.5k but I did buy the kids a bike each, the memories and happiness it brought them was priceless

Fair play, at that point £1.5k would have seemed like its limit, think if I was in your shoes I would have bailed out at £600 to £700. It's only now that it's hit $10k that it's changed the possibilities a bit, even the BBC are reporting it with an open view on it now.

At least you made a very good return on it. Can't imagine how the guy that bought 2 pizza's with 10,000 bitcoins must be now feeling, lol.

It's still going up at the moment, I could definitely see this $10k being the tipping point where every man and his dog buy into it. What I didn't realise is that the currency is still increasing at the moment, but it cannot increase anymore once it hits 21 million and apparently that's not far off, so once it hits that and we have mass hysteria then who knows how high the price could go.

 

[MBE2017]

There will only ever be 21 million Bitcoin. Period.

17 million of them are currently in circulation. The other 4 million will slowly come into circulation over the next 120 years.

Of the 17 million in circulation, it is estimated that at least 4 million are lost forever. It’s also believed that the mysterious Satoshi Nakamoto owns up to a million of them.

That means only 12 million Bitcoin are potentially in circulation.

How much printed money is out there? It’s a seemingly endless supply. It’s not hard to come by. It’s not scarce, and the government prints more whenever they feel like it.

The crazy increase in value can be compared to the Dutch Tulip fiasco, but little else. The tulips had a finite life, Bitcoin can run for as long as people believe in it. If China has been unable to stop it, despite their best efforts, I doubt anything can now. I can see it continuing to rise for several years yet, but there will be price corrections as in any market.

 

[Chris34]

How much printed money is out there? It’s a seemingly endless supply. It’s not hard to come by. It’s not scarce, and the government prints more whenever they feel like it.

Completely agree, this is why I find Bitcoin so fascinating. With normal currency when you print more money then that is supposed to devalue the currency and make another countries currency worth more. Despite printing an endless supply of money, this devaluation has not happened, the only thing that has devalued the £ is speculation caused by Brexit, but it had nothing to do with printing loads of money.

I am no expert but I suspect the reason for this is that all the major currencies are being printed so a devaluation cannot happen. If the dollar was not being printed but the pound was then we might see the affect on the currencies true value.

What is so interesting about Bitcoin though is that no country can step in and try and manipulate the price of it by putting up interest rates or printing more of it, and, it is on a global scale so it's like a global currency controlled by nobody and it's a limited supply.

The idea of printing more and borrowing more goes completely against good economic sense and everybody knows this, those in governments know it but want to somehow ignore it and hope that the day it all goes tits up it won't be on 'their watch'. Bitcoin or something similar to Bitcoin might be the thing that puts what economic experts preach, into practise with a whole sorry mess for governments around the world.


Chris.

 

[owas]

What is so interesting about Bitcoin though is that no country can step in and try and manipulate the price of

For sure, this is a big reason I am really for ****** currency and the block chain tech behind it. China recently announced a ban on ICOs and is shutting down exchanges and bitcoin took a small dip but recoverd a day or so later.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

I think it's close to hitting mass appeal and at that point the price will rocket like crazy.

Precise definition of a bubble.

Despite printing an endless supply of money,

This suggests that you don’t know enough about real currency or economics and fiscal policy to understand why bitcoin is not a currency or a viable investment. Governments don’t just print an endless supply of money. Quantitative easing is done carefully and for a good reason, and has consequences for the economy and inflation.

Bitcoin is not a currency. For it to be currency it needs to be useable and accepted as a form of payment. Yes yes I know some places now accept “payment” in bitcoin but actually they don’t. Does the company who accepts bitcoin then use that bitcoin to pay their suppliers or HMRC? No, they instantly convert the bitcoin into USD or GBP. They’re not accepting payment in the form of bitcoin, they are offering you trade using a commodity. It’s a swap, not a transaction.
The acid test is whether you can pay your taxes with it.
It doesn’t behave like a currency on the market either, it’s a commodity at best but one which does not have intrinsic value. The level of supply and demand which drives the price does not take you to a valuation anything like what it’s at, so the price is more than anything driven by hype. Classic bubble.

Companies now offering futures contracts to short bitcoin. That would perhaps be an idea if it behaved anything like a currency, but it doesn’t, so I would just avoid being either long or short on it.

All the click bait as well saying “Wall Street are fuming about the bitcoin millionaires”....they’re not. They don’t give a monkeys.

 

[Chris34]

It's high risk, high reward, what do you expect? Try getting a 10x return at a bank investment account for a year, lol.

The price could go up and up. It's totally irrelevant whether it's classed as a good investment, all that matters is you can make a good return and whether you think it's worth the risk.

Try telling someone who bought at 1k that they have wasted their money.

And this rubbish about Wall Street, what are you on about? Bitcoin is right up their street, they are the type that drive speculation for their own benefit. Facebooks shares were trading at 100x annual profit before they worked out how best to monetise it, that's not high risk?

Still going up : )

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Well whatever happens its been a exciting time for those who brought bitcoins say two years ago and every big change upwards in its value sold a % of their holding as a safety measure a relatively low risk asset for money as a gamble say a few hundred pounds, but now massive money to even consider starting I imagine

 

[STDFR33]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-25134289

 

[Alan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-25134289

I wonder if he found it? That was in 2013 - when it was worth $1,000 - that drive is now worth £40million

 

[STDFR33]

I wonder if he found it? That was in 2013 - when it was worth $1,000 - that drive is now worth £40million

Still looking

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/unlucky-man-who-accidentally-threw-13989640

 

[MBE2017]

Bitcoin breaks $15000 mark, up 50% this month, an increase of 1400% this year. It's dropped back a bit but expected to not meet much resistance until the $17k mark. Any correction ATM looks small and short lived but although it looks great to investors I would feel uneasy since I have never seen such increases before in my lifetime, how long can it continue.

Of course the web gurus are claiming much of this increase is due to big institutions getting on board, but they would say that and anything else to keep the money coming in.

I do have some bitcoin, but bought it a long time ago and cashed out my investment long ago, would suggest only risking what you are happy to lose completely, this is a wild ride.

 

[Alan]

Don't forget cashing in is subject to cgt

 

[Chris34]

Judging by the speed of the increase, it suggests that there is a lot of spare money about so I would expect it to keep increasing. Once the money people get involved then it's anyones guess. 20k to average joe is a lot of money, 20k to an investment banker is todays dinner money. If the money people all start to have a dabble then I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see it hit 100k.

It all depends how much money there is out there, it has to have a limit, it's where the limit is that's the question.