Being sued, need help

McAnonymous

Free Member
Oct 9, 2017
16
1
Hi... I desperately need advice on a messy situation.


In Oct 2016 I liquidated my parents PPE/workwear supplies company after my father suffered a heart attack and was unable to run the company.


My father company’s largest customer (heavy industry and big user of consumables) bought the assets with the interest of setting up a replacement to fill the gap it left in the marketplace and the gap in their supply chain.


The buying company later contacted me and asked me to come onboard in Jan 2017 because they did not have a clue what they were doing. So they incorporated a new business to replicate my father's liquidated company. With three directors, Alan = 80%, Paul = 10%, myself =10%.


As a director of my own digital company, I was offered a 10% shares in the new company for a reduced rate from my company to develop their online presence. My duties included setting up the business operations, training the other director and developing an online presence to allow them to sell online via their own website and ebay.


Over the course of 4 months my relationship with Paul (Alan’s son) deteriorated. He was not following the company procedures I trained him in, did literally nothing but mess about on facebook or played with his phone all day. He broke several HSE and employment laws relating to warehouse staff safety and days off sick, which was the defining moment I wanted out.


I first raised my concerns in April 2017 with the Parent company's in-house accountant, who was tasked with overseeing this startup. Where I was told there was nothing I could do about Paul’s laziness, because it was Alan’s son. I just have to crack on or leave.


After 5 months of worsening problems with Paul, I resigned with immediate effect as Paul was running the business into the ground and doing NO work. (All evidenced by emails). But I was getting the flack for the business not performing.


I informed the parent company that my business could no longer afford to offer services (programming and hosting) at cost and that going forward, full list price had to be paid in proforma. (I asked for pro forma as out of 15 invoices I submitted over 9 months, 3 were paid on time). Until then I suspended services (hosting/development) that they had not paid for.


My resignation was accepted, I had agreed in email to work with the company replacing my business, that would complete the digital side and they had agreed to pay proforma the full list price to reactivate their hosting.


When I went to the office to collect my personal belongings and my company’s IT equipment, I was denied access by Paul who had the locks changed, hours after my resignation was given.


From then on, the company has refused in email to return my personal possessions and my company’s IT equipment until I turn their website back on, even though monies are outstanding on the hosting and complete the works agreed, even though monies are outstanding on programming studio time.


I emailed again today asking when I can collect my belongings, their response was simply, I cannot and they have passed the matter over to their lawyer to sue me for all the monies paid to my company. They state that the monies they have paid makes the website their property.


I argue that

1) Only 20% of my time was dedicated to digital, the rest of the time was spent wiping Paul's backside

2) I have turned off the access to the server, because there is outstanding monies on the hosting. Once they return my property and have paid the outstanding debt, the website will be turned back on.


Please help.
 
Last edited:

STDFR33

Free Member
Aug 7, 2016
4,823
1,317
Your title suggests that you are being sued. But your post seems to suggest that you are not.

If they are not returning your equipment, it is theft. You could call the police.
The police are unlikely to get involved, so you will need to sue them to get the equipment / value of equipment back.
 
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McAnonymous

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Oct 9, 2017
16
1
There is not a written agreement between my company, the parent company and the start-up. The parent company repeated refused my requests for them to sign up to my online T&Cs and billing system. (email evidence to prove this)

There is a shareholders agreement which did have a paragraph relating to the company owning the website in relation to the design, images and the code. I pointed out that the website is based on open source code. No person owns the code/website. Also all code I create I also create under open source. This was acknowledged and removed from the shareholders agreement.

Sadly, I cannot get access to my shareholders agreement, as it is kept in the office they have denied me access too. They are aware of this.

I have offered to reinstate the service, where they can migrate the website elsewhere, once my property is returned and the outstanding invoice cleared. This was agreed by them in an email, until the owners son got involved, and now they are ransoming my property for the service to be reactivated.
 
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Chris Ashdown

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  • Dec 7, 2003
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    It could be interpreted that you acted improperly in turning off the web site rather than using the courts to obtain your money, possibly under a duty of care

    It would sound like you are on a loosing battle if it comes to court then in many cases it comes down to who has the most money and I guess that would not be you

    I would turn the site back on, issue a small claims action on the invoices and get a solicitor to advise you and also to recover your missing items
     
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    Gecko001

    Free Member
    Apr 21, 2011
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    You need proper legal advice as has been said.

    You might have to wait a while before getting your property back as even though you own it, it is in the company you resigned from's possession and you would need to get a court order to get it if they did not hand it over.
     
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    Root 66 Woodshop

    Turn the site back on - leaving access secure to yourself.

    Contact a solicitor - he'll probably tell you to arrange to attend the companies address with the police with regards to your own stuff.

    A friend of mine left a company and was told that he couldn't get his own tools back... over £10,000 of equipment, he was escorted off site by security under protest. He rang his solicitor who told him to arrange to attend site with the police, the police wouldn't attend however gave him a Police officers contact number... and was told to ring him once he got on site.

    When he got their, he asked to speak to the Director, who spoke to him through the gate... he asked if he would allow him to get his tools, if not he would have to ring the police there and then... Obviously knowing that this was a civil matter and that the police wouldn't attend he told him to go ahead... So he rang the number that was given to him, the copper answered and asked to speak to the person who was not allowing him access to his own tools...

    About 5 minutes on the phone to the copper, a very red faced and sheepish fella passed the phone back and allowed him to take his tools.
     
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    McAnonymous

    Free Member
    Oct 9, 2017
    16
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    It may sound petty.. but they have not paid for October's hosting, which is why I turned it off.

    I think the right course of action would be to turn the site back on, secured only to myself.

    I just emailed the parent company the following

    ------
    I do not wish to drag out this situation any longer than necessary.

    Once all my property is returned to me, I will grant access to the server for 24 hours to allow the migration of the website to another host. As there are outstanding monies for the hours worked in Oct. I will need a day to removed the open source code changes that was made in Oct, unless you want to pay for these worked hours? LMK.

    I will also forward all password and usernames relating to my work for ****, including the login details for (my email address) where you can view the multitude of email complaints I have received RE ******* the past 6 months, culminating my resignation. Paypal, SagePay, merchant bank usernames and passwords with also be forwarded.

    If ******* continue to show no willing to resolve this matter quickly, I will be forced to take the matter further RE the theft of my property.

    -----
    it will probably be ignored or I am told to go way. Then I will get a solicitor involved.
     
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    Mr D

    Free Member
    Feb 12, 2017
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    If collecting stuff you say is yours its a good idea to take copy of receipt in with you.
    I had to collect stuff from my old office once the manager insisted certain items belonged to the company. I produced copies of receipts from my pocket made out to me and pointed out I could show copies of bank statements if needed showing payment from my bank account. Manager backed down.
     
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    webgeek

    Free Member
    May 19, 2009
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    Have you signed a non-compete agreement, or do you have a non-compete clause in an agreement with them anywhere?

    Chris Ashdown's advice makes great sense - I'd listen to him, get an attorney and get yourself in a bargaining position.

    If you don't have a non-compete, and you believe that model could make money without them being in the way - then think about how you could approach this, for leverage. A motivated marketer with minimal overheads and extensive knowledge of their position, especially one who has been wronged, is a dangerous beast when cornered.

    I'm not advocating you do anything to damage their business - just that you get yourself in a strong bargaining position. You have control and knowledge of a lot - think about it.
     
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    McAnonymous

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    Oct 9, 2017
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    there was a clause in the shareholders agreement that said I could not operate within the same industry 12 months after leaving the company. I said I couldn't adhere to this, I think we agreed on 3 or 6 months.

    It's irrelevant anyway. Everything is amicable when the director and his son are not involved.

    I had agreed after my resignation that they could buy my established ebay store of 4000+ feedbacks (I was smart enough to set that up in my name and they agreed) given the problems with late invoice payments and Paul. Obviously I shut that down too, which they have not commented on because it's under my name.

    I also offered to work with the digital company replacing me for a small fix pro-forma fee.
    I also have a 8000+ customer database from my dad's past business that they agreed to buy from me (They still have not paid, so I have not given it to them).

    The two chiefs genuinely are the type to cut their nose off to spite their faces. As was mentioned earlier, they have lots of money backing them, they could drag this out for ages on purpose.
     
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    STDFR33

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    Aug 7, 2016
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    there was a clause in the shareholders agreement that said I could not operate within the same industry 12 months after leaving the company. I said I couldn't adhere to this, I think we agreed on 3 or 6 months.

    It's irrelevant anyway. Everything is amicable when the director and his son are not involved.

    I had agreed after my resignation that they could buy my established ebay store of 4000+ feedbacks (I was smart enough to set that up in my name and they agreed) given the problems with late invoice payments and Paul. Obviously I shut that down too, which they have not commented on because it's under my name.

    I also offered to work with the digital company replacing me for a small fix pro-forma fee.
    I also have a 8000+ customer database from my dad's past business that they agreed to buy from me (They still have not paid, so I have not given it to them).

    The two chiefs genuinely are the type to cut their nose off to spite their faces. As was mentioned earlier, they have lots of money backing them, they could drag this out for ages on purpose.

    I'm sure I have heard that you cannot transfer an eBay account to another person / company anyway.
     
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    Gecko001

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    Apr 21, 2011
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    It may sound petty.. but they have not paid for October's hosting, which is why I turned it off.

    I think the right course of action would be to turn the site back on, secured only to myself.

    I just emailed the parent company the following

    ------
    I do not wish to drag out this situation any longer than necessary.

    Once all my property is returned to me, I will grant access to the server for 24 hours to allow the migration of the website to another host. As there are outstanding monies for the hours worked in Oct. I will need a day to removed the open source code changes that was made in Oct, unless you want to pay for these worked hours? LMK.

    I will also forward all password and usernames relating to my work for ****, including the login details for (my email address) where you can view the multitude of email complaints I have received RE ******* the past 6 months, culminating my resignation. Paypal, SagePay, merchant bank usernames and passwords with also be forwarded.

    If ******* continue to show no willing to resolve this matter quickly, I will be forced to take the matter further RE the theft of my property.

    -----
    it will probably be ignored or I am told to go way. Then I will get a solicitor involved.

    Why did you not get legal advice before sending the above? Get legal advice NOW.
     
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    McAnonymous

    Free Member
    Oct 9, 2017
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    desperation to get shot of them. I won't be replying now without solicitor's advice.

    Turns out however, in following Chris Ashdown advice to turn the website back on. It was already on, I reactivated last friday an hour after I deactivated it to retrieve my emails, but forgot to disable it again.

    Just shows they haven't even looked at the site.
     
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    Newchodge

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    Your personal property is yours. Them keeping it is theft. Ring the police and ask that they accompany you so that you can recover your personal property. Explain that you fear a breach of the peace if they don't help.

    For everything else you need paid for legal advice NOW.
     
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    McAnonymous

    Free Member
    Oct 9, 2017
    16
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    Passed the matter over to a solicitor RE being sued. Though part me is wondering / terrified how much this will cost. These knackers have millions behind them, I am thinking it might be best to just liquidate my business and start a new LTD.

    The Police are meeting with me to chat about the email blackmail and to assist in stopping a breach of the peace.

    What a mess. I am half tempted to grass them up to HSE for breaking H&S at work laws. But then I just want to wash my hand of them. I have already told one member of staff I will be a witness to her attempted constructive dismissal. Nasty company to work for!
     
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    McAnonymous

    Free Member
    Oct 9, 2017
    16
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    So, in light of the police coming with me to collect my property. I received an email from the company solicitor stating that if I attempted to enter the property I will be sued for £26000, as "your property is being retained in set-off against any liability.... List of stupid conditions"

    I won't get to speak to my solicitor in time before the police meet me... Any ideas?
     
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    Newchodge

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    Ignore it. Unless there is a contractual right to retain property as a set off they cannot do so. Be prepared by telling the police before you get there.

    Where do they get the figure of £26,000? You cannot sue someone for attempting to enter property!

    Also, complain to the police as further evidence of harassment.
     
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    Newchodge

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    Do they know you are bringing the police with you? If they know, and if they had the slightest possibility of being right, they would have emailed the police, not you.
     
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    McAnonymous

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    Oct 9, 2017
    16
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    No they don't know the police will be with me, saving that gem to see the look on Paul's face. Haven't specified at time either, if I gave them a time they'd just lock the building up and leave before I got there. Seen them do it to another company they are screwing over... That's been going on for almost 2 yrs
     
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    R

    Root 66 Woodshop

    So, in light of the police coming with me to collect my property. I received an email from the company solicitor stating that if I attempted to enter the property I will be sued for £26000, as "your property is being retained in set-off against any liability.... List of stupid conditions"

    I won't get to speak to my solicitor in time before the police meet me... Any ideas?

    What a load of tosh...

    Firstly what they're doing is illegal... and complete scare tactics... forget about any warnings, just arrange for the police to be present and collect your stuff...
     
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    McAnonymous

    Free Member
    Oct 9, 2017
    16
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    Not sure if anyone is interested, but here's an update.

    The police spent 90 minutes this morning wanting a full background to the breakdown of the relationship culminating in why they were needed to ''keep the queens peace''.

    After relaying events (my first post), the police thought it best to first phone the company I have fallen out with RE my property, before making a visit. (I think the office being 12 miles away from where I live was the factor there)

    My property, which I never fully explained here, consisted of:

    My Shareholders agreement
    IT equipment
    Personal clothing (work boots, jacket etc)
    Letters and hospital appointment schedules relating to my heart condition.

    The police didn't want to get involved for the first three, as it's a civil matter, but were more than happy to get involved RE my medical letters. I told the police officer exactly where my letters were in my office and they phoned the other director. (While the cop asked me to not say anything as he wanted to pretend he'd been to see me, not letting Paul know he was sat opposite me at my dinning table).

    The other director played dumb, saying there was no paperwork. Which I expected, and totally F'ing BS! Anyway, the copper said that if he came across it, could I collect it? Paul said No. So the copper asked if I could have it collected? Paul said no, So the copper asked or could he could collect it, if he finds it? Paul said yes.

    30 minutes later, Paul phones the policeman directly on the number the copper gave him. Paul said after seeking advice, he (the copper) was more than welcome to come and search the premises. The copper openly said, "I'm not coming all the way over there to look for letters that if were there, most certainly won't be there now". Asking if they'd possibly gone out with the rubbish"... Paul just went silent

    point of the post..

    1) That copper is a legend
    2) Paul is a disgrace
     
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    Newchodge

    Moderator
  • Business Listing
    Nov 8, 2012
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    Not sure if anyone is interested, but here's an update.

    The police spent 90 minutes this morning wanting a full background to the breakdown of the relationship culminating in why they were needed to ''keep the queens peace''.

    After relaying events (my first post), the police thought it best to first phone the company I have fallen out with RE my property, before making a visit. (I think the office being 12 miles away from where I live was the factor there)

    My property, which I never fully explained here, consisted of:

    My Shareholders agreement
    IT equipment
    Personal clothing (work boots, jacket etc)
    Letters and hospital appointment schedules relating to my heart condition.

    The police didn't want to get involved for the first three, as it's a civil matter, but were more than happy to get involved RE my medical letters. I told the police officer exactly where my letters were in my office and they phoned the other director. (While the cop asked me to not say anything as he wanted to pretend he'd been to see me, not letting Paul know he was sat opposite me at my dinning table).

    The other director played dumb, saying there was no paperwork. Which I expected, and totally F'ing BS! Anyway, the copper said that if he came across it, could I collect it? Paul said No. So the copper asked if I could have it collected? Paul said no, So the copper asked or could he could collect it, if he finds it? Paul said yes.

    30 minutes later, Paul phones the policeman directly on the number the copper gave him. Paul said after seeking advice, he (the copper) was more than welcome to come and search the premises. The copper openly said, "I'm not coming all the way over there to look for letters that if were there, most certainly won't be there now". Asking if they'd possibly gone out with the rubbish"... Paul just went silent

    point of the post..

    1) That copper is a legend
    2) Paul is a disgrace
    Actually the copper is not. He has facilitated a theft. Plus he is wrong about your personal property. He has condoned a theft.

    What do you plan to do now?
     
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    McAnonymous

    Free Member
    Oct 9, 2017
    16
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    tbf to the copper, he's not a solicitor and it's a civil matter over a criminal matter. And as Paul said there was nothing there to collect.. what's the copper to do? As soon as Paul got wind we were coming over, he'd of locked up and disappeared. I very much doubt the other stuff will still be there tbh, he'll have moved it off-site to another one of his dads warehouses or offices.

    just making notes for my solicitor to reply to their solicitors BS demands letter. Don't really care about the IT gear, just P'd off im being blackmailed. Part of me is hoping they try to take me to court over their allegations.. I have so much evidence on them of fiddling expenses to cover cash in hand work, HSE laws broken. Paul purposely turning down business to the tune of £30k, ignoring customer emails, customer complaints all disproving their claims that it was myself purposely setting out to damage the business. I even had one of the warehouse lads email me today, saying they would be a witness for me if it went to court about how he feels Paul is purposely trying to make the business fail.
     
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    cjd

    Business Member
  • Nov 23, 2005
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    Given that you don't care about the equipment now and that your paperwork is long gone, why are bothering with pursuing this?

    It looks pretty clear from here that you're not going to get anywhere.
     
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    Newchodge

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    tbf to the copper, he's not a solicitor and it's a civil matter over a criminal matter.

    No it is not. Someone has appropriated (taken control of) your property with the intention permanently to deprive you of it. That is theft. That is not a civil matter.
    Paul said there was nothing there to collect
    So if an armed robber tells the police he has not got the diamonds in his house, they will just say OK, sorry to have asked, and walk away?
    I very much doubt the other stuff will still be there tbh, he'll have moved it off-site to another one of his dads warehouses or offices.

    Then he has stolen it. Criminal offence.
     
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    Gecko001

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    Apr 21, 2011
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    As I have said before, I think that getting hold of your belongings is a matter for bailiffs (ie a civil matter) which seems to be the way the police are viewing the situation except in the matter of your medical letters. They are probably being cautious as if you were taken to hospital suddenly and it came to light that they did not take action on the letters it would not look good.
     
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    Root 66 Woodshop

    TBH You've gone about it the wrong way, what you should have done is attended the property yourself - upon arrival if approached or stopped from entering - rang the police and then tell them the situation and that you fear a breach of the peace and that there are hostilities towards you...

    All you've actually done unfortunately is allowed them to take aim and pee on you from a great height while enabling them to have help from the police in doing so.

    Theft is theft at the end of the day... the civil matter had nothing to do with your items being held to ransom.
     
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