Bargain Hardware 2.0

[bargainh]

Good Morning UKBF,

We recently launched version 2.0 of our site which has been many years in the making.

We're an IT refurbisher selling refurbished workstations, servers, PCs, laptops and components.

It's a particularly tricky build when factoring in the inventory system links and all the logical rules around allowable configurations of various machines.

Your thoughts and feedback on the site would be kindly appreciated: Bargain Hardware 2.0

 

[fisicx]

How are you marketing the business and who are you targeting?

 

[bargainh]

Our target market is primarily UK/EU SME's

Marketing through google, eBay and Amazon

 

[fisicx]

And do they know what they want?

I ask because I looked at one of your servers and had no idea what all those specs meant.

 

[Inva]

In your specs many components lack brand. "Power: 1125W PSU" ...generic, made in China? Also i did not find anywhere where it says whether the stuff is new or refurbished. Some components i'd like to get new. Not a good idea to buy used disks for example.

Your menu does not work well, it breaks in 2 lines for me.

 

[bargainh]

And do they know what they want?

I ask because I looked at one of your servers and had no idea what all those specs meant.

They would do, yes. The servers wouldn't be targeted at consumers.

We do plan to add some tooltips to aid with the PC and Laptop configurations.

In your specs many components lack brand. "Power: 1125W PSU" ...generic, made in China? Also i did not find anywhere where it says whether the stuff is new or refurbished. Some components i'd like to get new. Not a good idea to buy used disks for example.

Your menu does not work well, it breaks in 2 lines for me.

PSU manufacturers would always be the same OEM as the chassis, where relevant. For example the HP and Dell servers would always use HP and Dell PSU's.
A more generic server such as the Foxconn's would use a similarly generic PSU but i don't think that further detail would really be of benefit.

The menu issue doesn't sound at all good. Could I ask for your OS and browser details please and we'll get that fixed.

Thanks for the feedback guys

 

[The Byre]

Your website is a disaster - sorry to have to be blunt, but that's the way it is!

A typical example is the 'Avid Workstation' - Avid what? Audio? Video? Loaded with SW? What? And 3GB video card - are you kidding??? Try 16GB for basic 4K! Someone claiming to build an Avid workstation (and without Avid accreditation BTW!) using a 3GB video card hardly inspires confidence!

Anybody wanting to edit audio or video using an Avid system knows exactly what they want and what SW has to be loaded up-front.

On Friday, I shall be ordering a whizz-bang workstation with many, many terabytes and GB of disks and RAM and video and audio cards to match. It will be spec'ed to the SW it is supposed to run and TBH, I shall be ordering from Scan.

The reality is, you have a website for the PC DIY enthusiast, where (according to your website) a top on the line graphics card costs under £500 and not the £10,000 that a professional card can cost. There is of course nothing wrong with giving the DIY enthusiast what they want (and the market for £10k graphics card is low volume and very specialised) but you are advertising one thing (professional workstations) but actually offering something quite different.

My 30 cents worth - tune your offerings to your real target audience!

 

[bargainh]

Your website is a disaster - sorry to have to be blunt, but that's the way it is!

A typical example is the 'Avid Workstation' - Avid what? Audio? Video? Loaded with SW? What? And 3GB video card - are you kidding??? Try 16GB for basic 4K! Someone claiming to build an Avid workstation (and without Avid accreditation BTW!) using a 3GB video card hardly inspires confidence!

Anybody wanting to edit audio or video using an Avid system knows exactly what they want and what SW has to be loaded up-front.

On Friday, I shall be ordering a whizz-bang workstation with many, many terabytes and GB of disks and RAM and video and audio cards to match. It will be spec'ed to the SW it is supposed to run and TBH, I shall be ordering from Scan.

The reality is, you have a website for the PC DIY enthusiast, where (according to your website) a top on the line graphics card costs under £500 and not the £10,000 that a professional card can cost. There is of course nothing wrong with giving the DIY enthusiast what they want (and the market for £10k graphics card is low volume and very specialised) but you are advertising one thing (professional workstations) but actually offering something quite different.

My 30 cents worth - tune your offerings to your real target audience!

Hi Byre, thanks for the feedback here.

I must admit that I'm not as familiar with the 'pre-configured' selections we have as with the standard model configurators. However I just loaded the AVID page (https://www.bargainhardware.co.uk/r...workstations/pre-configured-avid-workstations) and the first thing I see is the Basic/Intermediate/Extreme descriptions and which AVID packages those machines are compatible with.

Anybody who knows exactly what they want might want to go straight into a specification high-end workstation such as the HP Z840 or Dell T7910.

Much as I do appreciate your feedback, i'm not sure I can agree that we're offering something 'quite different' to professional workstations. HP Z-series and Dell Precision workstations are the gold standard for high-end workstations and the two models I mention above will be very difficult to out-spec at Scan

If you think it relevant then I'd be happy to get our engineers to run some benchmark tests on them for you and perhaps we can persuade you that they'd be a far better value proposition than a new generic box from Scan.

 

[fisicx]

They would do, yes. The servers wouldn't be targeted at consumers.

In which case make the homepage a grid showing the range top level categories. Make it really easy for someone to quickly scan and target the kit they want. Bin the promos, the top-seller and the featured product and just show me the categories.

Increase the font size. Remove the grey backgrounds.

Move the quantity to the right of the price. Remove the stock levels (if it's not in stock don't list it). Or if it's out of stock let me pre-order or at least tell me when you will be getting new stock.

Auto select something so the cost doesn't show as zero. Change the dropdowns into a radio so I can just click the one I want.

I can only get one monitor - you won't let me buy two.

Don't use a pop up for the images

Bin the sidebar. Use the full page width for the specs. Put the cost at the top below the menu (as a sticky).

Move the search out of the header on the homepage and put it in the main body.

On the product page you have great chunks of whitespace in the main product details. Looks a little odd. If your customers already know what they want try moving the image to the right so the product name is in the prime position. Consider a short description below the product title. The configurator is below the fold for me. I had to scroll to discover the useful stuff.

On the category pages move the blurb down the page. Your customers already know they want a 'Dell Whatever' so put the products in view as soon as they land.

That will do for starters.

 

[bargainh]

Firstly, thanks for taking the time to provide such detailed feedback. It really is kindly appreciated.

I'll reply to each point below:

In which case make the homepage a grid showing the range top level categories. Make it really easy for someone to quickly scan and target the kit they want. Bin the promos, the top-seller and the featured product and just show me the categories.

RE: Category page grid on the home page - The megamenu is accessible from every page on the site and provides that same functionality.

Increase the font size. Remove the grey backgrounds.

I'm not sure which grey backgrounds you refer to.

Move the quantity to the right of the price. Remove the stock levels (if it's not in stock don't list it). Or if it's out of stock let me pre-order or at least tell me when you will be getting new stock.

Agreed on the price/quantity layout. The price should also be bold.

The out of stock management is particularly difficult unfortunately. Our stock isn't so easily/readily replenished so we're working within constraints there.

Auto select something so the cost doesn't show as zero. Change the dropdowns into a radio so I can just click the one I want.

There should be a chassis auto-selected on each system. I believe there might be an issue with doing so when multiple chassis are available but will check it.

Radios won't work as many options allow for multiple quantities.

Don't use a pop up for the images

Why so? Amazon does and it seems commonplace among eCommerce sites.

Bin the sidebar. Use the full page width for the specs. Put the cost at the top below the menu (as a sticky).

Do you mean the buy box/configuration box? This is needed to display the current price and configuration whilst the user scrolls.

Move the search out of the header on the homepage and put it in the main body.

I can't see the benefit here either i'm afraid. I struggle to think of any ecommerce sites where the search function isn't top and centre of the site.

On the product page you have great chunks of whitespace in the main product details. Looks a little odd. If your customers already know what they want try moving the image to the right so the product name is in the prime position. Consider a short description below the product title. The configurator is below the fold for me. I had to scroll to discover the useful stuff.

Agreed on this. We have work to do on re-arranging the layout to make better use of the space.

On the category pages move the blurb down the page. Your customers already know they want a 'Dell Whatever' so put the products in view as soon as they land.

That will do for starters.

Yes, this is a difficult trade-off between the SEO benefits of the higher content placement versus the customer experience of perhaps wanting to see the products earlier. Decision was taken that providing the products are above the fold then we can acheive the best of both worlds.

 

[fisicx]

I’m out in a bit so can’t reply to everything right now.

I know the mega menu is available on every page but that means I have to take an action to see the options. A category grid on the homepage means I can scan in a fraction of a second. You said people already know what they want so make it easier for them to home in on the product type.

 

[Inva]

PSU manufacturers would always be the same OEM as the chassis, where relevant. For example the HP and Dell servers would always use HP and Dell PSU's.

This is not automatically the case, especially since you sell refurbished. Perhaps you swapped the PSU on this one. Even if you didn't, clarification removes doubt.

Linux desktop webkit

 

[bargainh]

This is not automatically the case, especially since you sell refurbished. Perhaps you swapped the PSU on this one. Even if you didn't, clarification removes doubt.

Linux desktop webkit

I don't mean to be pedantic, and I do appreciate the feedback, but these are stock items and not individual assets. So the product page refers to the product type and all stock is identical.

If we were to replace them it would have to be like-for-like as they're not interchangeable. The only interchangeable PSU's are redundant PSU's and again, only models from the same OEM are interchangeable.

Thanks again for your input.

 

[The Byre]

Much as I do appreciate your feedback, i'm not sure I can agree that we're offering something 'quite different' to professional workstations. HP Z-series and Dell Precision workstations are the gold standard for high-end workstations and the two models I mention above will be very difficult to out-spec at Scan .

Now they're more like it - but you still don't get the problem. I am not criticising your computers but your website. It's a mess!

All I want is a box that works - I want to know that software X will run on your whizz-bang Xenon workstation and be able to perform without panting for breath! I don't know if I need MB X, Y or Z or if I need multiple SSD drives or just a couple. All I want is a box that I shove into the machine room, plug in and it goes.

That means I need examples and suitability. "This box of tricks has two Xenon 16-core CPUs and an Nvida card with X GB of RAM. It will run DaVinci-Resolve/AutoCad/Avid Media-Composer/Whatever and has a minimum bulk transfer/render speed of X. It comes complete with a 7.1 audio card, 7 USB3 slots, two HDMI2 IOs, an AES IO, a BR play and record drive (etc., etc., etc.) and costs just £5,000."

If you think it relevant then I'd be happy to get our engineers to run some benchmark tests on them for you and perhaps we can persuade you that they'd be a far better value proposition than a new generic box from Scan.

OK - you're on! I'll be at your place first thing on Friday morning - get the coffees out! I will have been on the road by that time for about six hours. It'll be a nose to nose, head to head, grudge-match between you and Scan. The winner gets to sell me a workstation!

It'll be a busy day, as I have to be in Trafford Manchester later that morning, somewhere in Gloucestershire that afternoon and in Witney near Oxford in the evening.

 

[bargainh]

Now they're more like it - but you still don't get the problem. I am not criticising your computers but your website. It's a mess!

All I want is a box that works - I want to know that software X will run on your whizz-bang Xenon workstation and be able to perform without panting for breath! I don't know if I need MB X, Y or Z or if I need multiple SSD drives or just a couple. All I want is a box that I shove into the machine room, plug in and it goes.

That means I need examples and suitability. "This box of tricks has two Xenon 16-core CPUs and an Nvida card with X GB of RAM. It will run DaVinci-Resolve/AutoCad/Avid Media-Composer/Whatever and has a minimum bulk transfer/render speed of X. It comes complete with a 7.1 audio card, 7 USB3 slots, two HDMI2 IOs, an AES IO, a BR play and record drive (etc., etc., etc.) and costs just £5,000."

Ok. Understood.

How do you feel Scan compares in this regard?

I've had a look on there but can't find the software compatibility info that you mention.

Could you point me to the link and we'll look at how we can implement something comparable or better.

Thanks again for your input

 

[The Byre]

I am definitely not claiming that Scan's website is ideal, but at least they give examples of general suitability, PCs for gaming, HD and 4K video editing, pro-audio, graphics, etc.

I don't know if I need a larger cooling block, or a heat-pipe, or what sort of graphics card will cope with 8K RAW film stock, or if it is OK for AutoCAD or Maya or what sized SSD I need to stew my brain on Grand Theft Auto. Your build-it-yourself approach puts me off - and I do know what it is I need and I do understand what all the bits do!

It's like trying to buy a car and being asked what sort of tyres and catalytic converter or DPF I would prefer or if I want tungsten or vanadium spark-plugs! I neither know nor care!

The people I work with are VERY computer savvy. They can solve all kinds of networking and compatibility problems and almost to a man, they prefer Macs. Apple and Mr Jobs discovered ages ago that people want a box that works and not a bloody Mechano set!

The cost of the computer pales into insignificance, compared to all the other costs of running a business. If you can provide the same PC as a Scan model, but at a far lower price, I will gladly go for it - but puzzling together the various bits for a specific task and building and testing the thing is YOUR JOB and not mine!

I am in the market for a powerful Windows-Pro workstation. All your website has to do is tell me what it costs and what's inside it! Assessment day is Friday. Decision and payment day is Monday.

 

[bargainh]

I've read this post back through several times and i'm afraid I can't get away from the feeling that it's contradictory. So much so that if you didn't have such a large post count I would have the overwhelmingly inkling that I was being 'trolled'.

In response to the car analogy, I think the options on our configurators would be more akin to engine size, wheel types, seat fabric and suchlike. These are all choices that you're given when you go to buy a brand new car. My understanding is that you want the salesman to present you with the correct car from the outset without any input from you, and for it to be both perfect for your needs and the right price.

If you do decide to purchase from us then you can hop on livechat and our sales guys will be very happy to talk you through the configuration process. It's really not clear whether you need that or not, but either way we'll be happy to help.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Inva]

That means I need examples and suitability. "This box of tricks has two Xenon 16-core CPUs and an Nvida card with X GB of RAM. It will run DaVinci-Resolve/AutoCad/Avid Media-Composer/Whatever and has a minimum bulk transfer/render speed of X

That could only realistically work for playing games, for work use it's impossible to predict the work and measure the performance it will have.

 

[The Byre]

@fisicx has given you several really great pointers on some of the detailed issues that need fixing on your website - and you have argued almost every single one of them.

I gave you the customer's PoV - I even pointed a couple of people here at the site and they more or less said "Crikey! I can't make head nor tail of it!"

I told you that I find that the site is a mess and finding a workstation and configuring that workstation is nigh impossible. I tried making the HP dual Xenon box comply with our needs, such as multi-channel audio cards and a top-line Nvida card and it was impossible. As far as I got, it was cheap enough. The last time I bought a workstation it cost about £20k and yours came in at under £4k - but still needed tweaking.

For that reason, I need to talk one-on-one with an engineer and I offered to come past Friday morning - and got this reply -

I've read this post back through several times and i'm afraid I can't get away from the feeling that it's contradictory. So much so that if you didn't have such a large post count I would have the overwhelmingly inkling that I was being 'trolled'.

Quite apart from the absurdity of the situation (accusing a potential customer who tells you that he has to come past in person because he cannot make head-nor-tail of your website that he is a troll) it dawned on me at that point what is going on!

You are in love with your website! "How dare you tell me my precious baby is ugly!"

Margret Dumont: Are you insinuating that I am fat?
Groucho: Well, as a matter of fact, yes I am. Why, do you want a second opinion?
Margret Dumont: As a matter of fact, yes I do!
Groucho: OK, you're ugly too!

That's why you are fighting every suggestion @fisicx makes. That's why you take umbrage when I tell you it is an unfathomable and unholy mess. That is why you argued every point @Inva made about clarity.

My honest tip - don't be in love with your website! Certainly, don't be in love with that one!

Our own website is a mess as well and sometime this year, we shall be building a new one - or rather getting a specialist to build one for us. (I'm eying up @fisicx as a potential builder, but don't tell him that!) Yes, I can do html and all that jazz, but I really want the job done properly.

That could only realistically work for playing games, for work use it's impossible to predict the work and measure the performance it will have.

Point taken - but there are benchmarks, such as render speeds, etc., etc.

 

[Inva]

Good points, The Byre. What I find most problematic, apart from telling your client that they are trolling, is that one type of visitor wants simpler information, while another wants more detailed information, and somehow both are left unsatisfied.

Btw The Byre, you can DIY a workstation just as good as any HP or Dell, at half the cost basically.

 

[fisicx]

I'm not sure which grey backgrounds you refer to.

On the product page on the configurator

IThe out of stock management is particularly difficult unfortunately. Our stock isn't so easily/readily replenished so we're working within constraints there.

This makes the 'out of stock' message even more annoying. If it's out of stock don't show it on the site.

IRadios won't work as many options allow for multiple quantities..

But most don't have multiples. most only let you select one then the rest are disabled. If you want to make it easy for customers - fix this. A radio to select the option and a dropdown the the quantity.

Why so? Amazon does and it seems commonplace among eCommerce sites.

Amazon doesn't have a zoom. I've just checked. And you don't need a zoom either - your customers already know what they want, the image is just there as a placeholder.

Do you mean the buy box/configuration box? This is needed to display the current price and configuration whilst the user scrolls.

No it isn't. I told you where it could go. Make it a sticky just below the main nav. This will give you a lot more room to build a decent configurator.

I can't see the benefit here either i'm afraid. I struggle to think of any ecommerce sites where the search function isn't top and centre of the site.

On Amazon it's HUGE and on a dark background and stands out. Yours doesn't

Yes, this is a difficult trade-off between the SEO benefits of the higher content placement versus the customer experience of perhaps wanting to see the products earlier. Decision was taken that providing the products are above the fold then we can acheive the best of both worlds.

Disagree. You have pit SEO above the needs of the customer. Google will look at the page and see that the blurb adds no real value to the customer. If you want to put it somewhere useful, create a 'about this product' page. Or put it in the product description. If you are serious about SEO I'd being with fixing the dreadful page speed score of 6/100.

Build the site for your customers not for Google and not for how you like things. The more I look, the more is seems you have begin with a layout and then made the content fit.

 

[Nico Albrecht]

I tried to work with the configuration tool and was not able to build the configuration I would want. I recently purchased from a competitor a HP620 and I was not able to build the same config on yours at all. Other site was quite nice to be honest and didn't have a config builder at all. Quick chat with them and they listed a new product for me with my specs. Job done and purchased in 10 min.
In regards to the drive you always list them as major brands. What are you putting actually in there for ssd's and hdd's

Going through all the other feedback's I agree with most of them. site very slow and even i was not able to actual figure out your configurator and i new what i wanted.

 

[bargainh]

I tried to work with the configuration tool and was not able to build the configuration I would want. I recently purchased from a competitor a HP620 and I was not able to build the same config on yours at all. Other site was quite nice to be honest and didn't have a config builder at all. Quick chat with them and they listed a new product for me with my specs. Job done and purchased in 10 min.
In regards to the drive you always list them as major brands. What are you putting actually in there for ssd's and hdd's

Going through all the other feedback's I agree with most of them. site very slow and even i was not able to actual figure out your configurator and i new what i wanted.

Hi Nico,

Thanks for the feedback and sorry to hear that you had a bad experience.

Certainly if you had also contacted us directly i'm sure we could have equally had you sorted in 10 minutes, but in relation to the website it's very disappointing that it didn't meet your needs.

Can I ask what specifically you were looking to do with the configurator that you couldn't? This will help us try to find a resolution for future use cases.

In terms of the drives, these would be from the major manufacturers, so largely either Seagate or WD. As we stock drives by their generic manufacturer as well as their OEM (HP, Dell) we've used the 'Major Brand' tag to avoid causing confusion with too many brand names in the options list.
We are indeed aware that this is cause for confusion for many users and have thus far been too slow to rectify it if i'm honest.

 

[fisicx]

The configuration seems to have been developed to suit how you do things not how the customer does things.

The fact that a number of reviewers have commented on this suggests you need to think again about the buying process. The very fact you have to explain yourself in this thread should tell you something is amiss. All the answers should be on the product page not reliant on me calling you on the phone.

As I said before: build the site for you customers, not for Google and not how you think it should be.

 

[bargainh]

The configuration seems to have been developed to suit how you do things not how the customer does things.

The fact that a number of reviewers have commented on this suggests you need to think again about the buying process. The very fact you have to explain yourself in this thread should tell you something is amiss. All the answers should be on the product page not reliant on me calling you on the phone.

As I said before: build the site for you customers, not for Google and not how you think it should be.

Hi fisicx,

As always, thank you for your input.

The two potential customers who have reported taking their business elsewhere have both found competing sites which also didn't directly provide what they're looking for and have resorted to talking to someone manually.

In the second instance it's not yet clear why that was. I appreciate that you have your theories and we have certainly taken those on board, but given that Nico is here and able to reply it seems prudent to ask the question.

 

[fisicx]

Totally agree with you. But the concern for me would be why they felt the need to go to a competitor.

Just looking at the configurator (as a potential customer - I will need a new server) It's not easy to use not does it give me all the information I need. There are loads of tihngs you can do to make it really slick. But it's not a quick fix.

When you commissioned the new site how much user testing did you do before actually writing any code?

 

[bargainh]

Indeed. It wasn't clear from the first customer but again, hopefully Nico will be happy to share his reasons.

Nothing is quick with the configurator unfortunately. There is an awful lot of business logic (by necessity) and component dependency logic (also by necessity) which makes it difficult to make sweeping changes.

That said, it is targeted at the business and enthusiast enterprise IT user and they repeatedly inform us that they want more options rather than less. Indeed the feedback from our customer base has been overwhelmingly positive thus far and when asked if simplifying/dumbing down the option sets would be preferable, almost nobody has said it would.

That obviously doesn't discount the fact that the feedback here suggests there's certainly another market who would prefer less choice and a more guided selection process.

 

[fisicx]

No, don't dumb it down. Just make the UX smoother and more logical.

My suggestion of radio fields and a single quantity box will help as would adding more information about the components.

 

[The Byre]

The two potential customers who have reported taking their business elsewhere have both found competing sites which also didn't directly provide what they're looking for and have resorted to talking to someone manually.

I have now returned from my tour of the UK. I spoke to Scan about other completely different topics that had nothing to do with workstations. I would not drive hundreds of miles to look at workstations or discuss them. We just need some workstations in 19" racks to be put into a machine room. Busta!

Your site is just too vague.

The configuration seems to have been developed to suit how you do things not how the customer does things.
The fact that a number of reviewers have commented on this suggests you need to think again about the buying process. The very fact you have to explain yourself in this thread should tell you something is amiss. All the answers should be on the product page not reliant on me calling you on the phone.
As I said before: build the site for your customers, not for Google and not how you think it should be.

This advice is golden!

If a customer comes to us and asks for X, we provide X. You seem to want to provide an explanation as to why you are selling Y and Z instead.

That obviously doesn't discount the fact that the feedback here suggests there's certainly another market who would prefer less choice and a more guided selection process.

No, you still do not understand what is being said here - you are not providing enough information - e.g. which drives are you offering?

A guided selection process does not obviate the need to be specific about what each component is that goes into a PC. Scan sells a lot of PCs and they list every component, but give a full starting point for a model that fits a specific task. The customer can then add HD and RAM, etc. according to their needs.

I am perfectly certain that you would be fully able to put together what we and others need, but your website gives the opposite impression.

 

[billybob99]

Just configured me a ProLiant ML350 Gen9 Tower Server from your website. Expensive, but nice, very nice.

This company has been in business 22 years, has a ton of customers, top reviews and a ton of cash in the bank - you don't need to be going back and forth with jokers on here, just get some professionals in on-site.

Just a shame you're using what looks like Magento.

 

[Nico Albrecht]

Not doing advertising for those guys but recently bought a refurb HP Z620 I found there site so much easier to use and navigate to be honest. Life is to short for checking ram voltages etc....

For your own sake I hope you only fit new ssd's as there is no way for you to actual wipe an SSD drive for resell. From a forensics point the SSD can't be wiped and only a physical destruction guarantees that old data was destroyed. I tried to configure the 620 i bought on your side and was not even able to do so.

If you can configure a Z620 V2 barebone with dual xeon and 96GB ram on your side I was not able to do it. Once I got to the ram I can only have 48GB max and the different ram and power supply options got me confused. ECC ram is cheap so why not simply offer the fastest one.

 

[itsnathanhere]

Just a small bit of input from me, but I find the animated nav menu to be quite jarring. What I'm talking about is when you scroll down the page and the nav bar shrinks slightly - it's too jumpy. I'd recommend either making it a smooth animation instead of a jump from one to the other, or just keeping it small in the first place.

This is just nitpicking on my part. The site feels fairly smooth to navigate otherwise!