Barclays fraud protection, what a racket! Don't go there!!!

[BiGHoRN]

When we were setting up our e-commerce website, selling high end musical equipment, we did our research, or so we thought, and decided to go with Barclays and use their epdq system to receive payments. We chose Barclays as 'they promised' that we were protected from fraud and under no circumstances could we be better protected, or do more to prevent internet fraud through our site.

hmph!!!

Only a few months later, we were victims of fraud, and we didn't know it either at the time.

We sold 2 high value Fender guitars approximately £2k each and the money entered our account a few days later as you'd expect. We sent the guitars out, along with a 'Thank you for your business' note to find thatover 3 months later, we received a letter from Barclays Merchant services, requesting a clawback, for the full amount, AS WELL AS A FINE of 10% for a ADMIN FEE!?!?!?!?!?!?

Less than a month later, we received a phone call trying to sell us FRAUD PROTECTION FOR £500.

We appealed, called them, pleaded with them, balled at them and everything in between for them to have their so called 'Complaints department' to investigate the fraud, why they let it happen and to investigate the Clawback. As you'd imagine, it was not the news that we were hoping to receive, nor was their response.

This is still on-going over a year later and the point of this thread is to warn any budding entrepeneurs that before starting any new ventures, especially e-commerce websites, to STAY AWAY FROM BARCLAYS AND ALL OF THEIR FALSE PROMISES!

The funny thing is, their website states: 'Simply epdq, comprehensive fraud tools for yours and your customers piece of mind'

Well, this is my piece of mind.. Stay away from BARCLAYS and all of their Services!

 

[quikshop]

STAY AWAY FROM BARCLAYS AND ALL OF THEIR FALSE PROMISES!

I'm no fan of Barclays but your post does read as though you've been caught out by the realities of trading online.

No bank guarantees to prevent fraud through your business and its not their responsibility to do so... banks are very good with the slopey shoulders thing.

Take this experience on board and learn the lessons;

1. For large orders phone your customer to confirm their details.
2. Send by courier so the order can be tracked and delivery validated.
3. Never send large orders to addresses other than the billing address of the payment card used.
4. Insist on a land line telephone number
5. Never ship large orders to a different Country to the billing address.
6. Never ship orders to Africa, South America, Asia, the Middle East and parts of Eastern Europe.
7. Enable secure code and verified by visa in your PSP account.
8. Don't rely on banks to protect your business.

 

[BiGHoRN]

Well, I'm no Fan of Barclays either, in fact, I could be a lot stronger about them than that!

Anyway, I digress!

At the time of creating the website, not having a huge understanding or knowledge e-commerce, I did my research and WITHOUT DOUBT, was mis-sold.


We did all of the checking and confirming of addresses and used a courier with signed delivery etc etc, we did absoltely everything that we could!

The goods were sent to a 'Lady' in Borehamwood and I can still resight her name and address, along with her e-mail address. She denied all knowledge of fraud and claimed to be running a business that 'forward shipped goods to Turkey, the Police were involved and, as usual... useless!

Though thanks for your comments & suggestions.

 

[quikshop]

In that case then defend the chargeback. Your contract is to deliver the ordered goods to the customer. What they do with it afterwards, forward it to Mars etc is irrelevant. Write to Barclays quoting the chargeback reference, include order details, transaction details, a copy of the signatory sheet from your courier (usually electronic but they provide printed copies).

You are given a period of time to dispute a chargeback, has that now lapsed?

EDIT: I'm assuming here that the billing address of the card used is the same as the delivery address.

 

[deniser]

Barclays insist that transactions are put through 3D secure don't they?

Did this one not have a liability shift back to the Bank or did it go through as a normal transaction?

 

[SillyJokes]

Sounds like the 'lady' was ultimately shipping to one of the countries I would suggest not shipping to, and it demonstrates the reason why. I'm very sorry this happened to you.

If you have proof of delivery you can still have a go at Barclays and perhaps you should not give up on this for some time. Do everything in writing.

 

[BiGHoRN]

That is my point exactly!


We were mis-sold in the first place, told that we could do no more and still they make the clawback and after no end of trying to defend it, they just claim that they've investigated it and... they've agreed (internally) that it's best (for Bob-£6m bonus on top of a £3m salary-Diamond) that the clawback stands.

They make my blood boil. If it wasn't for the fact that anything going through the FSA takes 2 years, we'd have had it sorted now. But what really hurts is the fact that we were lied to and even then, 'The bank's will never lose' so they take it from us and penalised us for the admin.

If the order came through our site for delivery to Turkey, I would have have definitely refused to ship it, but the credit card address and billing address matched.

Barclay's said that there was no indication that it was fraudulent, but 'To be sure' we should have waited for 3 months before shipping the goods!!!!!


PLEASE LET THIS BE A LESSON LEARNED, NOT ONLY BY OURSELVES, BUT PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE,

AVOID BARCLAYS LIKE THE PLAGUE.

from

a small, struggling independent retail shop in the high street trying to fight a massive Bank who pays over a billion pound in bonuses!

 

[PayVector]

OP - Were the transactions 3D secured?

My guess is that they were not.

This type of fraud is quite common but easily spotted. Fraudsters use freight forwarding companies as most sane merchants do not deliver this amount of goods to a foreign country.

Merchants, especially new ones, tend to think that it is everyone elses responsibilty to make sure the goods are going to the actual card holder.

Did you :

1. Check the address registered for the card matched the delivery address?

2. Actually check the delivery address was a residense and not as was the case a freight forwarding company.

3. Independantly verify that person was tied to the address by means of a utility bill.

You will need to do some reading on how you should protect yourself. Fraud prevention tools provided by the card processing industry are just that... tools. Ultimatley you the merchant must apply your knowledge to judge if a purchase should go out. There will be cases where all the fraud tools say it is okay but it is obvious fraud.

Common sense is your most powerful tool in your arsenal.

 

[Click2Post.co.uk]

Out of interest, have Barclays given you a right to appeal, or provide evidence?

I have always wondered, as a PayPal Merchant, exactly what do these credit card companies ask their customers when they dispute a transaction?

eg: Can customer simply say goods didn't arrive, and the customer gets their money back without any dispute or mediation whatsoever? Even if POD is provided etc.

I find, atleast with PayPal, if customer disputes the transaction, then I will never get the money back and the mediation is non-existent between me, the card company and the customer.

 

[Vision]

We had the samething where a customer put in a chargeback for almost 2k, this was also for high end musical equipment.

Did you take payment over the phone or online?

Mark

 

[BiGHoRN]

No, the payment was made through our website. Based on the advice that Barclays Merchant services gave us, the goods were shipped...

We've since gone back to them, still absolutely useless though, we don't expect much but wanted to warn any new would be entrepreneurs about the pitfalls of Barclaycard/Barclays Merchant services.

Sorry to hear of loss

Were were your goods shipped to? What were they, just in case they turn up??

 

[Shopcetera]

If you use 3D secure and the goods are shipped to the billing address the banks cannot claim the money back.

Im guessing you didnt use 3D secure.

We insist on it for large transactions.

 

[vitalcertificates]

We also got the same issue with wireless mics (another business I own). Also with Barclaycard. I too thought we were covered but had to arrange a new fraud rule to be added to our profile.

We have successfully defended a chargeback as the goods in one case were sent to the billing address and signed for (although it looks like the goods were intercepted before reaching the door). Their standard letter makes it look as though you cannot defend the chargeback, but they will consider anything you send them.

We felt really annoyed when we got caught with this, but had to put it down to experience and tighten our procedures. We now only ship to the billing address for telephone orders, regularly check electoral roll information, and have even made use of Barclaycard's address check service (costs about £4.00) where they will check with the card issuer for address information matching delivery information.

 

[SecureTrading]

3-D Secure is a good way of protecting yourself, but it won't get your goods back. For a belt and braces approach, we recommend you carry out checks on large orders on the validity of the customer. Our Identity Check product allows you to verify that a person lives at the specified address and you can also check for any previous instances of fraud at that address.

 

[wormcity]

So basically what happened is the lady in Borehamwood ordered through your website, then fowarded the instruments onto another person, who has stated that they havn't received them ??

that customer has chargebacked the lady, who in turn has chargebacked you...

Seems to me if you have proof of delivery with a signed signature and was sent to the address given, and Barclays still won't refund you the money, why don't you take the lady to court and demand your money back.

Your contract is with the person who bought the goods from you - not what happened or who it was sent onto afterwards.

Ronnie