Apprenticeship - taking on an apprentice

[kevin555]

Hi

I am looking to take on employees and all that entails and I've been contacted by the local college about taking on an apprentice.

I'd like to know your experiences and opinions on the apprenticeship scheme.

How much does it cost - in both time (i.e. monitoring/training the person) and money (i.e. wages etc)?

What are the pros and cons for the employer?

Your thoughts are much appreciated.

Kevin

 

[kevin555]

From the level of response I guess no one has ever taken on an apprentice from the local college - either that or it's the golden egg and no one wants to reveal their secret.

 

[Kev Jaques]

Not sure on the costs etc... However, I did an apprenticeship 25 years ago and served with 2 companies for a total of 4 years. It's a fantastic way to get a lower cost employee initially and more importantly pass your skills on.
I would expect probably day release depending on trade/apprenticeship college needs, might turn out to be evening related but I would factor in possible 1 day they are at college.
Providing you get a good young person who is actually interested in their field and willing to learn then it works well for both parties.

Would have thought the new minimum wages would apply as a basic, lots of pros, cons - training, work output slower initially compared to someone with more experience.
Costs could be possibly be outweighed even from using a more experienced/costly person but bear in mind at the end of the apprenticeship if they stay they will want more money/responsibility and you will be aware of the skills they have learnt with you so probably better to try and hang onto them at this stage.

One of the main things though is helping who ever you choose to gain experience, all too often it's the old catch 22 situation with getting a job.

 

[ComputerNE]

Its slave labour.

I as far as im aware there is no minimum wage for an apprentice. Therefore you get a member of staff on a cheap budget. But what you get is a teenager usually. and they obviously wont know a lot from the start so youll need to interview a few of them. The college should have an agreement that you will need to sign and it will specify what they expect of you ie to pay them some wage. I think its between £60-90 a week.

 

[kevin555]

Thanks for your reply Kev.

I'm thinking it could work out to be a good deal for both parties.

I understand from the start that if they turn out 'right' then they'll be more skilled and want more money - hopefully by then they'll have proved they're worth it and I'll be able to afford it.

 

[CKG]

I've been through loads of apprentices and to be honest I've always found them a bit of a waste of time, space and money for skilled trades.

The problem being It takes too long and costs too much to train a young lad of 16-17 to a stage where he has the social skills and trade skills to go out and start earning his keep and stop costing you money.

It takes me about 3-4 years to turn a sprog into a competent gas fitter. Until that point they are nothing but a dead money overhead that has to be paid.

When you add it all up and take into account minimum wage and all the other crap that costs you money you soon see it's quite a big financial risk you are taking by training someone up - tens of thousands of pounds in fact.

And there is no guarantee you will ever get return on your investment.

 

[G. Lasagne]

I've been through loads of apprentices and to be honest I've always found them a bit of a waste of time, space and money for skilled trades.

The problem being It takes too long and costs too much to train a young lad of 16-17 to a stage where he has the social skills and trade skills to go out and start earning his keep and stop costing you money.

It takes me about 3-4 years to turn a sprog into a competent gas fitter. Until that point they are nothing but a dead money overhead that has to be paid.

When you add it all up and take into account minimum wage and all the other crap that costs you money you soon see it's quite a big financial risk you are taking by training someone up - tens of thousands of pounds in fact.

And there is no guarantee you will ever get return on your investment.

I agree with this entirely, although it depends on the type of work hes doing, for me if he is the second man(labourer) on an installation job then im getting cheap labour as he is only paid £400 per month and a labourer would cost at least £50 a day. But if the type of work hes doing isnt work that anyone could do then its maybe not such a good idea.

 

[extremedistro]

I disagree.... I am in IT and had lots of apprentices. You can start them on about £90 per week, the goverment will pay for all their training / quals. you then give them easier tasks until they start to learn and move into a proper position.

The guys that started apprentiships are now full time support bods. Low wage while training, will take away the crrap jobs and no recruitment fees, great!

 

[crossdaz]

And there is no guarantee you will ever get return on your investment.

I think this is (and has been for many years) a real problem - I know lots of people who have had apprentice electricians and plumbers and those that last the course usually end up been poached by big m/e contractors with a better wage and a shiny van.

I think this should be outlawed and tradesmen should be given an incentive to train people - for the last 15 years or so they haven't.

Sorry, this doesn't answer the O/P's question but slightly relevant nonetheless?

 

[patientlady]

Hi

I am looking to take on employees and all that entails and I've been contacted by the local college about taking on an apprentice.

I'd like to know your experiences and opinions on the apprenticeship scheme.

How much does it cost - in both time (i.e. monitoring/training the person) and money (i.e. wages etc)?

What are the pros and cons for the employer?

Your thoughts are much appreciated.

Kevin

I think it might just be nice to take on an apprentice and give one a chance! Forget all the crap paperwork, training and your time that will probably involved for say two years. Its a risk but might be a gratifying experience...

 

[Maxxed]

To some degree I am a bit disappointed with some of the responses on this thread. I think it's great someone actually is interested in training young people rather than just looking for "cheap labour" or saying they are useless for the first 3-4 years, which in my experience is rubbish. For the money you pay they can start earning their keep right away. Ok you need to be patient but unless your not very good at training they should be capable of performing on their own by the end of the 3rd year, which on 4 apprenticeship means you get almost a tradesman on the cheap. Obviously this depends on the trade but in my experience most trades would be applicable to this rule (and I include IT as a trade). In trades such as engineering or building a lot of the knowledge comes through experience which takes time so be patient. Think of it as investing in your business and in youth but just ensure you get someone who is enthusiastic about the discipline and wants the job (rather than wants any job). Good Luck.

 

[Techy]

A few years ago decided to put existing staff through engineering apprenticeships, which involves day release for 2yrs and extra assessments / training (on top of the job specific stuff)

The existing staff where on between 50/100% more than a basic apprentice, although they could perform thier job without this (due to in-house training)

Is the apprenticeship helping them? YES
- They are becoming (semi-)qualified
- Thier confidence is improving (although everyone has different degrees, so takes time / motivation / dedication)

Is the apprenticeship helping the business? YES
- They (quite rightly) feel valued
- The business credibility is improved, by improved qualification

If the staff leave the company when it's complete, they have not been looked after properly (in all senses) otherwise they are just un-grateful

Yes, money is an issue but it's also about giving something back

In my opinion, the UK PLC should be funding businesses to train staff instead of wasting money on the useless employment related things they fund (ETE, EMA, A4E, Job Centre Plus and the usual 'construction / beauty' college courses etc) that in reality server no benefit to anyone

If someone leaves school with no idea what they want to do, The UK PLC shouldn't let them go on a 'construction/beauty' college course and give them around £30 p/w (+ tutor fees). Give this money to decent employers to fund thier wages for a 'bit' and give them real skills, if they don't perform they will obviously end-up at the start again!

Just in the process of contemplating employing an 'apprentice' (opposed to an employee to train) for £100 p/w, prompted by UK PLC. Actually a bit scared what may crop up, but will give anything a go once!

 

[kevin555]

What is the 'normal' college/work balance for an apprentice?

i.e. is it four days at college, 1 at work - or would it be the other way round?

 

[G. Lasagne]

1 day at college (monday or tuesday in my area) and 4 days with you. sometimes they may be in college for a full week if they have exams etc, but this will probably only happy maybe once or twice in his entire apprenticeship.
Plus work comes first, so if your desperate and you need the help, you can get him to take a day off college.

 

[razer sharp layer]

Hi i bought this thread back to life as on reading this thread i felt most comments were to me like well how did you start working for a living obviously
not on an apprenticeship cos if u did u would know it takes that long learn these skills to do the job right every time it was a good five years befor i went self employed with just me and my mate confidiant in the belilf that we could do the construstion of a brick/block house but hey we still made mistakes which us and our contractor lost money and after 25yrs of being a bricklayer i only small five mins sortout things which i am making my son my apprentice (God help me)

He is 23 yrs old and so far has wasted his time and gone nowhere left school with a few gcse's worth about zilch and as finaly has woken up and wants to work so i have taken him on with me to learn the trade cos he cannot get a job in construction let alone an Apprenticeship or collage 4 a NVQ to learn so he is going to be my Apprentice for the next 3/5 yrs but i need to look in to getting the NVQ qualification that he will need without it costing a small fortune it was my idea

would i be able to get 50% cost of wages for him from the goverment as he is an apprentice ??
or do i cop out cos i'm a sub contractor and not an employer
think you guys should try and see it from a more postive angle
i've had him on full time 3mths ago and i and able to achieve more production around a £100 a week however my (plan!) as i see it is 1st yr i lose £100wk 2nd yr evens 3/4 of pay back well thats what an
apprenticeship is isn't !
and i cant get any help at all from any body

Employ more apprentices ...

 

[Salvannha Sydney]

I planning to take on several apprentices, in fact will be there mentor and assessor, but my background is adult vocational education delivery. Yes, for some it works and for other it just the worst nightmare for both parties. I think in essence it all depends on the industry and the company ethos and culture and training provider delivering the apprenticeship ... that's my thought.