Anyone else against normalised WFH?

[Mr D]

I think he calls you a troll because it appears you're never actually posting your opinion. Rather you see what is being said and just say anything that counters it. Not for any other reason but to troll.

With the amount of posts you do daily, it would seem impossible that you have any sort of proper business, so the replies are just there to annoy and troll people and kill your time.

ROTFLOL!!!
How wrong you are.

Sorry, what is a proper business?

We buy and sell. The selling may be quiet at the moment compared to 5 weeks ago but stuff is still selling.
Had several orders last night while asleep. Probably a dozen or more orders today while out buying more stock.
I don't need to physically stand there on the website in order to get orders.

Nice business, will spend as much as 20 minutes most days packing the goods.

And like most people I never kill my time. Very valuable stuff, time. Use it, don't use it - time still gets spent.

 

[simon field]

It’s like debating with a cat!

 

[Mr D]

It’s like debating with a cat!

Yes, a cat that calls you out when you are wrong.
Do that a lot it appears.

 

[Alison Moore]

I do hope that a vast majority of people working from home does not become the norm.
.

I agree with you... I've worked from home on and off for years and I'm fine with it. I prefer it in fact. But most people are not like me. Among all my friends I can honestly say I am the only person who is happy working this way. Most would really struggle with it as they are 'people' persons and enjoy socializing and human contact.

I think it's really important that all staff are not just pushed down the WFH route just because it saves the company money. How many people struggled during lockdown as they were told to stay at home for a few weeks? Most.

 

[Alison Moore]

I hate to break it to you, but going into an office isn't social interaction. When a colleague asks "did you have a nice weekend?" they don't really give a toss about whether you had a nice weekend or not. They are just being polite. It's all fake.
.

I think that's really sad. I've made some amazing friends who started off as work colleagues. Some of them I worked with nearly 30 years ago and we're still friends now.

 

[Alison Moore]

I think that's really sad that you feel that way. I've made some amazing friends who started off as work colleagues. Some of them I worked with nearly 30 years ago and we're still friends now.

 

[Mr D]

I agree with you... I've worked from home on and off for years and I'm fine with it. I prefer it in fact. But most people are not like me. Among all my friends I can honestly say I am the only person who is happy working this way. Most would really struggle with it as they are 'people' persons and enjoy socializing and human contact.

I think it's really important that all staff are not just pushed down the WFH route just because it saves the company money. How many people struggled during lockdown as they were told to stay at home for a few weeks? Most.

As business owners we may well be looking to save our businesses money, keep costs down, have staff be productive etc. Needing such big offices may well become a lot less common.

There are also those who could become good workers but would have difficulty getting into the office.
Disabled - home is already adapted for them. Office may not be suitable, public transport may well not have ability to catch.
So could even open up working to some of those who up until March would have had difficulty getting a job that suits them.

Regardless, we are likely going to see major changes over the next couple of years as businesses adapt, and more services aimed at home workers.

 

[Jeff FV]

Here’s my thoughts, based on my experiences as a teacher.

At first, it WFH (or, perhaps in my case TFH - teach from home!) it was a novelty, and I enjoyed it, particularly as we started to TFH at the end of a busy and tiring term. The summer term started in much the same way, I was enjoying it, had learned loads of new skills - we are a technically advanced school so it was fairly easy for us to move to remote teaching, and I taught my normal timetable, via Teams, used OneNote to see student’s work “live” as it happened.

But lesson preparation took longer, admin tasks were more complicated- you’d have to email someone, colleague or student, were a simple two minute chat would have resolved problems swiftly. But, as I told my students, I now had VAR in the classroom (lessons were recorded for those who couldn’t make it live) so any misbehaviour could be reviewed and suitably sanctioned!! (I wrote a tongue-in-cheek blog about it here: http://www.amathsteacherwrites.co.uk/var-for-the-classroom/

As the term went on, the novelty wore off, it became more and more of a grind.

But the big thing I noticed was that my life was just “flat” - no ups, no downs, just the same old same old; Groundhog Day. I missed the variety of the day. I enjoy my work, but always look forward to coming home at the end of the day. Pre WFH, I’d get home have an hour or two of downtime, then possibly do a bit of work- marking, admin etc - but when WFH it all just blurs into one.

One colleague has a number of friends who now teach in China - she told me they spoke of the six week itch: having been in lockdown since before us, they had found that after about six weeks of remote teaching they were wanting to get back to school. That seems to have been the general consensus amongst staff at my school.

I have a nice home - plenty of space to work in - my wife & I have been married 24 years and are as strong together as ever, we had my 20 yr old daughter back from uni (a nice bonus) and 17 yr old son at home, yet I still missed interaction with others.

it’s all personal, but I would not want to be permanently working full time from home.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

it’s all personal, but I would not want to be permanently working full time from home.

Think of the teachers in the Australian outback who taught remotely by radio for years.

 

[Jeff FV]

Think of the teachers in the Australian outback who taught remotely by radio for years.

I salute them, but I wouldn’t do it.

if remote teaching were the norm, I wouldn’t do it. The lockdown has given me the opportunity to really identify what I do and don’t like about my job, and what I want from my working life.

Personally, and I appreciate that this is just me, others will think differently, but 100% work from home is not something I’d like to do.

 

[Punk19]

The pandemic has inadvertently started a massive work-from-home experiment, and the worst part is that employers and employees alike seem to endorse this new normal. This worries me as I am only a little over two years into my career and I really enjoy the office environment, for productivity as well as the social benefits.

Anyone else feel this way? Working from home is convenient say if you have a doctor's appointment or have a tradesman coming to fix something in your home, but I couldn't do it long-term. Too many distractions and an overall lack of routine kills any appeal of being employed for me.

everyone is different. BUT - i detest working in an office. it's horrible. everytime i think i have turned a corner something else pisses me off.. seriously once you have done it long enough there's nothing good about it. working from home at least some part of the week is the future for sure and i definitely work better at home. office environments are toxic - plain and simple.

 

[namesweb]

I genuinely have not missed being in an office, and really hope WFH becomes a legislatively protected legitimate option for people to opt-in to should they wish. Of course, it requires your job is possible remotely, eg a biscuit manufacturer is going to struggle if their factory staff decide to work from home!

Having had at times 2 to 2.5 hour commutes each way (client based - into the city), I'd much rather keep that 4-5 hours of my time for myself.

I've always thought that if it's that much of a struggle for human interaction WFH, it might be that one either need more friends in their life, or one needs to become more comfortable in their own company!

 

[Punk19]

at the end of the day - businesses will have to make a decision. as alot of staff will want more flexibility now. those staff wont just stay were they are they will look to move to employers that offer more flexible solutions. I will be one of those if my employer doesn't embrace change... not to mention we are at the START of a pandemic and not the END.

 

[Mr D]

at the end of the day - businesses will have to make a decision. as alot of staff will want more flexibility now. those staff wont just stay were they are they will look to move to employers that offer more flexible solutions. I will be one of those if my employer doesn't embrace change... not to mention we are at the START of a pandemic and not the END.

Certainly going to be very hard for employers who have been doing WFH during lockdown to say they cannot do it. They may be able to claim the work doesn't suit very well or they didn't find it productive - of course they will be certain of that by now - but cannot say its impossible to do.

 

[Punk19]

I work in Legal and the WFH situation is amazing. Peace and quiet to work is all i have ever wanted. I feel happier. More comfortable. I have worked when it suits me as opposed to suit my employer meaning that i have very often been working harder and for longer than i have previously and i haven't really noticed it - because when i have had 20 minutes spare i have sat in the garden in the sun or cut the grass - gone for a short walk, etc. It's a much happier lifestyle then being penned into what to me is a cage for 7 hours a day.

I guess the problem is the support staff - who it will be felt need supervision to work. I don't use any support staff. so not necessarily a problem that i have had. BUT i do think (unfortunately) for those who work in that area that there will be a lot of changes and employers will realise that if people have been working from home without a secretary for 4 months that they can continue to do so after covid.

the secretary free office has kind of been happening for a while now - but, this (sadly) really will bump it on i think. Given that in my office there's around 80 people 50 or such are support staff and all are furloughed and whilst its been busy its not been impossible to cope i suspect its going to be a very different place come October. I think they may jsut say do what you want or come in 2 days a week on a rota system so that someone is in the office.. i am hoping anyway

 

[Jeff FV]

I've always thought that if it's that much of a struggle for human interaction WFH, it might be that one either need more friends in their life, or one needs to become more comfortable in their own company!

At best that’s a bit one dimensional, at worst it’s actually pretty insulting.

I am more than comfortable with my own company- indeed, I often crave it - and I have (more than!) enough friends in my life. However, I do enjoy interactions with many different people during the day.

Plus, as I said in my earlier post, the big negative for me is the “flatness” of the WFH day. The day lacks variation, no major downs, but no highs either.

I fully appreciate the benefit of not having long commutes - not an issue I have, but my (short) commute does provide another variation in the day - a demarcation between the stresses of the day and the tranquillity of home.

Again, I fully understand that this is just my own perception and I know that others will think differently, and that is fine.

However, I would offer a note of caution, if your employer has realised that you can successfully WFH home in Manchester, Millwall or Melksham, How long will it be before they reach the conclusion the job can also be done from Mumbai, Hanoi or Dhaka?

 

[Deleted member 59730]

the “flatness” of the WFH day. The day lacks variation, no major downs, but no highs either.

As a freelancer all my career one lives for the highs and they can be pretty substantial.

 

[Punk19]

to be perfectly honest - the solution isn't 100 percent of either office or WFH its a mixture of the two. if my employer says to me you can now do 3 days at home and 2 if the office i will be the happiest person in the world. lets see.

 

[namesweb]

At best that’s a bit one dimensional, at worst it’s actually pretty insulting.

I am more than comfortable with my own company- indeed, I often crave it - and I have (more than!) enough friends in my life. However, I do enjoy interactions with many different people during the day.

Hah no offence meant, but if I needed interaction during my work day I can always zoom call someone. It's more or less the same as wandering over to someones desk; albeit less "social" I guess, but then I've always had the opinion that I'm being paid to provide output/work/productivity, not necessarily chat (and I've worked in many jobs where dossing while on the job was the objective, lead by management - for banters sake, but then when month end or budget submission came round we'd have to stay late a few days in a row to 7/8/9pm to make up for it- just work during the friggin month for gods sake!).

For me, when collaboration IS indeed needed, that can be done via zoom or teams, but it entirely depends on the job type.

However, I would offer a note of caution, if your employer has realised that you can successfully WFH home in Manchester, Millwall or Melksham, How long will it be before they reach the conclusion the job can also be done from Mumbai, Hanoi or Dhaka?

Quite possibly, but economics suggests that as those areas come into higher demand, wages will rise there, and wages will appropriately adjust in this country to compensate, before on the whole living costs and prices adjust to suit the new norm. Though yes, there would be casualties in the short to medium term in your scenario.

 

[Mr D]

to be perfectly honest - the solution isn't 100 percent of either office or WFH its a mixture of the two. if my employer says to me you can now do 3 days at home and 2 if the office i will be the happiest person in the world. lets see.

With perhaps a few staff 1 office 4 days WFH, and a bunch of staff office based entirely.

Meaning can fit more staff into the same space or have the staff in a smaller office. Either way the business could be more efficient.

 

[Punk19]

i dont get this social thing about the office. in legal literally everywhere i have worked has been dominated by career types who don't really make friends and are wielding large sharp daggers that are ready to be pushed straight in your back when you turn the other way...

with the exception of maybe one person out of the 200 or so i have worked with i don't txt or feel the need to speak to anyone really from the office. don't get me wrong i have a laugh with some people and i am friendly to everyone. but - work isn't my life. it's something that makes me money and every office is just as bitchy as any other. i try not to get involved.

 

[Mr D]

i dont get this social thing about the office. in legal literally everywhere i have worked has been dominated by career types who don't really make friends and are wielding large sharp daggers that are ready to be pushed straight in your back when you turn the other way...

with the exception of maybe one person out of the 200 or so i have worked with i don't txt or feel the need to speak to anyone really from the office. don't get me wrong i have a laugh with some people and i am friendly to everyone. but - work isn't my life. it's something that makes me money and every office is just as *****y as any other. i try not to get involved.

Some people socialise a lot at work.
Can be darned annoying when work needs doing and two out of the three staff on the section are busy chatting.

One of my previous bosses used to grab the hard hat of the worst offender, chuck it in a random direction then tell the person to go get it before coming back to work. When they complained he pointed out they weren't obviously at work while chatting rather than doing. Everyone else just laughed of course.
Team member being chatty Kathy doesn't get the work done.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

Here I would like to suggest a tool Marsview Notes to transcribe and help you to review hour-long meeting notes in a few minutes and gather all important information, decisions made and share it easily with your team.

Save even more time, don't have pointless meetings.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Whats the real situation like and who are these people who are going to work from home

Look at many mid size businesses, say a major garage, apart from a couple of paper pushers all including sales will need to me at work

Telesales unlikely to operate at same efficiency at home so not appealing to bosses

Shops, restaurants, Entertainment industry 99% need to be at work

Insurance and some head office staff ideal to work from home in many cases

Transport few opportunities to work at home

Sales staff in many cases have always been home based

Management becomes harder relying on monitoring to just effective staff and some management roles not leaded like team leaders

Savings in office space over a long time as many will have long term leases and extra costs involved with home workers

Many home workers on this forum do it for their own convenience and may well have the thrust in business to make it work, but what about Mr and Mrs average will they end up loosing there jobs as they cannot cope with home working distractions

My own small ex company had no staff i would let work from home as they all inter reacted together doing and it would be inefficient

I did ask a long time ago who on this forum was letting people work from home and nobody replied positively

Last but not least security of company data be it by virus or other means with company computers open to abuse outside the confines of the office security. it may be far easier to protect a single office system rather than lots of outside connections

 

[paulears]

I've worked from home, self-employed for nearly twenty years and during Corona, I took up my first office and now split my time between one part of the business that needs the facilities in my home extension, and the remainder at the office with it's large production space, kitchen and store areas. I now get more done at the office and I don't know why. They evidence is I'm more productive away from home. Still on my own of course.

HOWEVER - it has thrown up a serious issue of safety. The larger space means I'm more active - the space is a small TV style space, so lights, cameras, and importantly, cables! Lots of cables.

As I'm getting older I am definitely slower in avoiding accidents. Numerous times I have walked into cameras on jibs at head height, then tripped over cables, then knocked over TV monitors. On my own I am dangerous. If I break a leg, or knock myself out - what do I do? Nobody will look for me for hours. At home, I mainly sit in an office chair. Working on my own with heavy items is far more risky. I'm starting to actually get a little concerned now about always having my phone one me, just in case.

I think working from home in a safe environment is fine. Working on more risky processes, I'm not so sure. even stocking shelves and other silly things can go wrong.

 

[Mr D]

Every day, important meetings take place in your office. Decisions made in these meetings may involve a lot of time, money, and can even change people’s careers. With important things at stake in meetings, it’s no wonder meeting notes are considered of great value.

Taking a virtual meeting itself causes a lot of tiredness. So people find it difficult to make notes. I feel that this is also a reason for Zoom fatigue.

Perhaps a change in how meetings are managed?

Note taking during a meeting in person is how different to note taking from voices and images over a screen?

Ever done a telephone call and took notes from the person at the other end - a customer with a problem perhaps?
So much harder than taking notes from an in person discussion?

 

[Mr D]

@Mr D



As you said even making notes on a telephone call is tough, similarily when it is in-person meetings we can surely make a note of the person who made the statement but in virtual meetings with many faces on a small screen, it is difficult. Recently, I started to use Marsview Notes an automated meeting assistant that has helped me a lot in virtual meetings and telephone call recordings. It automatically transcribes my meetings and provides me a report with the summary, highlights, and lot more.

Taking notes of phone calls is tough? It was standard practice - we went through hundreds of phone note sheets to link with files every week in one job I had - and we were admin staff not phone staff.

Its not that hard in meetings even using video. Managed well only one person is speaking at a time.

 

[oli150194]

I think that working in an office environment brings a lot of benefits we can not have when working from home. I work in a very technical industry so communication with my colleagues is key and simply getting up from my desk to ask a question is alot quicker and more productive than waiting to have a zoom meeting whenever everyone's available as when WFH people work to different schedules

 

[Mr D]

I think that working in an office environment brings a lot of benefits we can not have when working from home. I work in a very technical industry so communication with my colleagues is key and simply getting up from my desk to ask a question is alot quicker and more productive than waiting to have a zoom meeting whenever everyone's available as when WFH people work to different schedules

Bad news then.
Latest government advice is work from home if you can.

Hey rather than have a zoom meeting, try a phone. Or blast out an email if needing multiple inputs.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I've worked from home for 10 years - it mostly works well.

Meanwhile, dealing with larger organisations where processes and communications between several parties matter, I've noticed huge inefficiency. Nowhere more so than the Public Sector, who seem to see it as an excuse to lower already poor standards, and fail to hit them.

 

[Mr D]

I've worked from home for 10 years - it mostly works well.

Meanwhile, dealing with larger organisations where processes and communications between several parties matter, I've noticed huge inefficiency. Nowhere more so than the Public Sector, who seem to see it as an excuse to lower already poor standards, and fail to hit them.

Depends what doing.

My sister has been working from home most of the time since lockdown started, laptop on the kitchen worktop - and has worked fine for her as a civil servant.
She is a call handler though so besides the access to computer system is pretty much not impacted by additional stuff.

Can imagine some places with a lot of paperwork and secure physical data would need decent management.