Any help on collecting on a court judgement?

[fathippy]

I thought I might share this with you and see if anyone had any smart ideas.

Last year I won a court case (actually it was settled pre-court for X+costs) and the defendant paid the £Xk up front. Costs were then submitted to the court and with no opposition they were granted, so I had judgement in a further £Yk. Unfortunately the defendant's correspondence was c/o a solicitors firm, (he had already moved solicitors twice since he was not paying their bills), and soon afterwards they say they lost touch with him! I dont think they were party to anything, just that he had used them to hide behind.

The problem is, whilst he keeps moving house, he has a business in town which he is attempting to sell through a business agent so he cannot totally disappear. Trouble is, my solicitor has done everything by the letter of the law which involves sending a court bailiff to do a "judgement of assets", and he merely turns round and says "this is not my business". I actually know the guy who sold him the business so this is a lie, but as far as "correct procedure" goes, I am at an impasse.

In short Y is a suitably large number, and so would happily pay a good few grand to get it sorted out. However it appears the law in this case protects the guilty. Does anyone know a good course of action.

 

[Mr_Wizard]

It's probably worth clarifying before the legal peeps come along:

• Was it a Limited company you won the case against or an individual?
• Is the business he's selling the one you won the case against (the relevance of this question hinges on the answer to the previous one)?
• Is the business he says "is not his" the same one that he's selling (again, the relevance hinges on if this is all Limited company stuff or him as an individual) or is there more than one business here?

If you won the case against him then it's him you're after not the business, if it's a Limited company then you have a bit more to deal with.

The one thing I would advise on, having been burnt myself, is make sure whoever it is you are chasing actually has the money or assets to be able to pay you. Judgements aren't worth a light if the money isn't there to have.

 

[fathippy]

1) individual, or two individuals if you count his wife
2) no, but then 1) explains that
3) is a trading-as again, so it is his money and consequently what he owes me.

The problem is that is seems to suffice for him to say "not mine" and get away with it.

The money is there, since, unless he has totally ransacked the business in question, it is a fairly profitable entity.

Do there exist any bailiffs who specialise in this sort of thing - they all seem to be rent-related as far as i can see, and the court appointed guys are just rubbish.

 

[Lime One]

You could try http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/enforcement/information/index.htm

As this application means he has to come back to court and answer on oatth, you can attend and ask questions such as bank details, property information etc. Once you have more information then you can make further applications to court to levy on property, bank accounts etc.

The alternative is a good PI who will get some more information on the debtor for you and that can help you get more questions to ask in the above application. Your solicitor should be guiding you through this and not using only the bailiff option as that can be the least successful.

 

[nigelmarsh]

We can collect this debt , !!It sounds like the debtor says he doesn't own the business we would send in our own investigators to get documentation that he does , we would speak to the suppliers of goods who would confirm the name that is placing the orders .

when we have sufficient information we would send in our own bailiffs (subject to the consent of the courts , who we would apply to )

We would do the above on a no win no fee basis or we would purchase the debt directly from you and chase the debt in our own name .

PM me and i can get the ball rolling

 

[Food King]

Hi Nigel

I am in a similar position as FATHIPPY. we won the judgement and sent bailiffs- but nothing mattered. Its a small debt of £1432/- would you be able to take it up.

Many Thanks.

 

[nigelmarsh]

HI ,
Yes we can look at this for you , please email me a copy of the CCJ and ill give you a call on suggestions to turn your ccj into cash

 

[fathippy]

Just to update the original story, (I know I like to hear how things progress on other peoples tales). The registration of the leasehold business suddenly magically appeared on the land registry. They say it had always been there but due to the nature of the address - a large block with complicated address breakdown - the exact shops had not been inputted on the data system until it was overhauled. [fairly annoying if you ask me]

Since then I have had to go back to court to get a charge attached to the lease, where the defendent appeared and claimed he was "never informed of the need to pay costs" and "he was bankrupt" and "he didnt own the business" and anything else that he felt might help.

Even this did not help, as he continued to say that he had given the business to his "family" to settle debts but could not afford the cost of assigning the lease - hence why it was still in his name. He also claimed that the lease was only worth a pittance as he had recently had it professionally valued !! It also transpires there is a mortgage on the lease (something I did not know could be done) but I dont know what size that is.

In short, if I force the lease to get defaulted it may prompt a disappearing act, however I would not be averse to taking on the lease. The trouble is what happens to the mortgage.

Dont know what gems I can offer to the new poster though as the whole system stinks. However hopefully if you persevere things will get there in the end?

 

[a varilone]

you can seek a court order by signing an appropriate statement and applying to court with a fee saying that service on the selling estate agent is good "substituted service"
or possibly even seek a court order that advertising in the local press is good service

al varilone solicitor 01933 277666

I thought I might share this with you and see if anyone had any smart ideas.

Last year I won a court case (actually it was settled pre-court for X+costs) and the defendant paid the £Xk up front. Costs were then submitted to the court and with no opposition they were granted, so I had judgement in a further £Yk. Unfortunately the defendant's correspondence was c/o a solicitors firm, (he had already moved solicitors twice since he was not paying their bills), and soon afterwards they say they lost touch with him! I dont think they were party to anything, just that he had used them to hide behind.

The problem is, whilst he keeps moving house, he has a business in town which he is attempting to sell through a business agent so he cannot totally disappear. Trouble is, my solicitor has done everything by the letter of the law which involves sending a court bailiff to do a "judgement of assets", and he merely turns round and says "this is not my business". I actually know the guy who sold him the business so this is a lie, but as far as "correct procedure" goes, I am at an impasse.

In short Y is a suitably large number, and so would happily pay a good few grand to get it sorted out. However it appears the law in this case protects the guilty. Does anyone know a good course of action.

 

[fathippy]

Update number two :

I now have a charge on the lease of the shop, judgement debt + costs has crept over 20k, but I am being quoted approx £4k to proceed with the "order for sale". This is money I dont have and it seems that the only people winning in this whole thing are the defendant and the solicitors. The former is probably well aware how bad the law can be in achieving anything, so is sitting back and waiting for me to either go bust or to give up.

What can I physically do to get anything out of this? Am quite happy to pay some of the proceeds to anyone who can actually achieve something that is not just "on paper", but am reluctant to pour more money in just to get another "certificate".

 

[Dessembrae]

I take it that your charge on the shop lease is by way of charging order, and that the mortgage is still registered on the leasehold as well? And are you certain that value of the lease (or equity left in it after the registered mortgagee's debt is cleared) is actually sufficient to pay you what you're owed?

As you can't stump up the £4k for the Order for Sale it seems you're left with limited options. If the property is sold, regardless of whether it's your Order for Sale or not, your charge will still entitle you to be paid out of the sale proceeds, after payment of the mortgagee. Depends how much of a rush you're in really, but it's also safe to say that the registration of a second charge by virue of a charging order is an event of default under the T&Cs/Legal Charge docs of most mortgage lenders. So it could happen that the mortgagee will actually save you £4k and try and sell it themselves.

Alternatively if you have reason to think that your debtor has the cash in an account somewhere, you could try and get a debt order and get the cash. You would need to have details of bank accounts and reasonable grounds to believe that the money was there to pay it - not sure of the cost of that one though.