Amazon Sellers - Dealing With Returns

[BusterBloodvessel]

We currently sell some of our product lines to a sole UK distributor, They sell on Amazon using FBA. They also sell to other smaller distributors, and some of those also sell on Amazon (assume directly rather than FBA).

What I am struggling with are requests for returns/refunds due to 'faulty' products after the 30 day Amazon return window. My understanding is that the retailer i.e. Amazon is responsible for dealing with any complaints or returns around faulty goods and then they would liaise with us if necessary. If I buy a TV in Currys and it dies after 6 months, I take it back to Currys, I don't get on the phone to Samsung, right?! And unless I'm fundamentally wrong, the same rights apply when shopping online rather than B&M.

Unfortunately that's what a number of consumers seem to be doing with us! They come directly to us if there is a product issue expecting a refund or replacement - when we have absolutely zero visibility of what they have ordered (if they ever ordered it), and when, or in fact whom, it could have been one of the smaller distributors reselling. We are effectively two links away from their order. We have a standard auto-reply to basically say they need to deal with Amazon, which handles a lot of the complaints, but then we get a number replying along the lines of the below - this is exactly what I received over weekend;

i have been advised by amazon to contact you re an air compressor i brought last may.As this is less than a year old i legally entitled to a replacement or exchange do please advise on next steps as amaxon say it is down to you as it is faulty

I have looked on Amazon to see if I could kind of see the steps involved in returning a faulty item through one of my own previous purchases - my plan was to say "click here, eclick there, use that form" or whatever. I have to say, Amazon make it virtually impossible. Go in previous orders, there is no option to return a faulty item. Some have "get product support" next to them but that only then links back to the manufacturer website. You can find a link about replacement or repair but that then only talks about manufacturer repair programmes. You can find a link about getting product support, that sends you in a whole loop back to the "Your Orders" page which has no option to return something!

Has anyone had similar experiences with this, and how do you deal with them? Am I incorrect with my understanding of who is responsible? I want to try and direct people into exactly what steps they need to take to resolve this, at the moment I can basically only say "Sorry, its Amazons problem, I'm not helping you" which isn't particularly useful for them. We have no issue in exchanging any faulty goods (in fact with many things where it's a low value thing like a phone lead or a battery or something, we just ask the UK distributor to post a replacement out FOC, it's more hassle than it's worth otherwise) but especially with some of the higher value products I feel it needs to go through proper channels, not just us sending replacements out with no visibility on whether people have even bought that item in the first place!

 

[DontAsk]

The customers contract is with the outfit they purchased from, i.e., the retailer is always liable.

Manufacturers often offer to handle returns direct, but this is in addition to the statutory requirements as above. In such cases, where you have little visibility, you should be asking for proof of purchase.

 

[japancool]

i have been advised by amazon to contact you re an air compressor i brought last may.As this is less than a year old i legally entitled to a replacement or exchange do please advise on next steps as amaxon say it is down to you as it is faulty

Unless your manufacturer's warranty is 1 year or longer, the standard term is 6 months, not a year. They should be approaching the retailer - in this case, your distributor, not you.

 

[MOIC]

The responsibility for returns from consumers is for the retailer to address directly, not for you, unless it’s in your contract of terms with your distributor.

 

[fisicx]

Buyers are contacting Amazon directly because they think they have brought from Amazon. Amazon just provides a stock answer to the query which is to contact the product supplier (Mr Bloodvessel). Joe Public is basically dense and has no idea there is a reseller in the middle.

Your response to the email is for the buyer to contact the seller. The name on the invoice.

 

[AlanJ1]

Excellent advice above.

I would also speak with your wholesaler and ask them to make sure anyone who is selling your products on Amazon know the deal with returns.

 

[paulears]

I'm struggling a bit with this. You sell to a wholesaler, who sells to somebody who sells it on amazon? I see no way you have any liability at all - the wholesaler sold it, and the amazon seller sold it - in my view unless you sell to the public direct, you have no real liabilty. I suppose there is a chain. It goes wrong, the seller refunds, then claims a refund from the wholesaler and gets it, then the wholesaler claims a refund from you. Even worse, you might be refunding the end retail price and you never got that in the first place?

Somebody also mentioned 6 months warranty? Where did that come from?

 

[japancool]

Somebody also mentioned 6 months warranty? Where did that come from?

Apologies, somehow I thought that was mentioned and explicit in the Consumer Rights Act but it isn't. In any case, the customer in this case seems to be reporting the issue after nearly a year.

 

[DontAsk]

Apologies, somehow I thought that was mentioned and explicit in the Consumer Rights Act but it isn't. In any case, the customer in this case seems to be reporting the issue after nearly a year.

The 6 month limit is for getting a full refund if the item cannot be repaired or replaced.

After that, up to 6 years, you may be entitled to some money back. The latter is deliberately vague and allows for expectation. E.g. you can reasonably expect a well known brand to be more reliable that some made up Chinese sounding brand name from Amazon.

 

[Mister B]

100% kick it back to Amazon.

We had a faulty kettle that we purchased via Amazon, and upon complaint, Amazon told us to take it up directly with Morphy Richards.

We refused to do so as our contract was with them and not the manufacturer. They promptly refunded without any further ado.

They're just trying to relocate the issue of the return so as to save them time and money.

I had the same issue with John Lewis and a flat screen tv, so the issue is not unique to Amazon.

 

[DontAsk]

I had the same issue with John Lewis and a flat screen tv, so the issue is not unique to Amazon.

Very often retailers such as JL will have an agreement for the manufacturer to handle warranties, or the manufacturer will offer their own warranty. There's nothing underhand going on but the retailer cannot use this to wriggle out of the contract if you insist.

Some manufacturers, e.g., Vax, actively encourage you to go straight to them, rather than the retailer. In their case the customer service is excellent. It was particularly so during lockdown when it would have been difficult to return to the retailer.

 

[fantheflames]

Always ask for proof of purchase, a screenshot from their orders. Once they have sent this over and you've received this, proceed with your returns policy. Simple!

 

[fisicx]

Always ask for proof of purchase, a screenshot from their orders. Once they have sent this over and you've received this, proceed with your returns policy. Simple!

They didn’t sell the item! Their returns policy doesn’t apply. Read the thread again.

 

[AmazonGeek]

Amazon will never take responsibility for this unless the product has been sold by Amazon themselves via a 'Vendor Central' relationship. This is when Amazon buys products from brands and sells them to customers themselves (rather than the goods being owned by 3rd-party sellers).

If I buy a Samsung TV on Amazon it will either be from Amazon themselves, in which case they will be responsible, or it will be from a third-party who is just using Amazon as the platform to make the sale. Whether they use FBA or not is irrelevant - that is just the fulfilment method.

In your case, the customer should be going back to the person that has won the order on Amazon. This will vary from day to day depending on who controls the buy box. For example, you could have one listing with three offers on it - one might be from Amazon, one might be from a distributor and the third from a retailer. They all add their offers to the same listing but only one of them will win control of the buy box at any one time.

When a customer lands on the listing and clicks 'buy now' whoever controls the buy box wins the order and (assuming that isn't Amazon themselves) they will either ship it themselves (FBM) or Amazon will ship it on their behalf (FBA).

So the question is - who is in control of the buy box when the order is made? Whoever that is, they are responsible for the return/refund. If they have used FBA, it will go back to Amazon's FC. If the seller fulfilled it themselves, it will go back to them.

Hope that helps!

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies - sorry for the delayed reply my side, tried to take a breather from work/the web over the bank holiday!

Very useful, thankyou, and I have to hold my hands up and say I was completely naive/stupid with my initial thought which was just "their contract is with Amazon" - of course it's not, to your point above AmazonGeek! Much clearer now, I should have realised that when I was thinking it through.

Only thing I am struggling now is where the customer can easily find the actual seller they bought it from (as I would like to have some sort of template response, "Unfortunately you need to contact the seller you purchased from, these details can be found by going into your Amazon orders and click button X" or similar). The quickest way I can find is;

- Go into "My Orders"
- Find the relevant order and click the "invoice" dropdown
- Click "Order Summary"
- Under "Items Ordered" followed by the product description, it will say "Sold By: <Seller Name> (seller profile)"
- Click "Seller Profile"
- In the "Seller Profile" screen select "Ask A Question" and follow the prompts

Does seem a little bit long winded but I'll go with that unless anyone knows a smoother/quicker way?!

Thanks again everyone for the clarification!

 

[AmazonGeek]

Does seem a little bit long winded but I'll go with that unless anyone knows a smoother/quicker way?!

That is pretty much it. Amazon should really be pointing customers back in that direction anyway

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

So - the plot thickens on this one! Or more to the point, I'm thick for not getting accurate info in the first place.

Our distributor is NOT selling using FBA, it is vendor central. Apparently they're very lucky that they got that relationship many years ago as now it's virtually impossible unless you're a highly prized brand that Amazon want to deal directly with? But there we are, that's how it's set up - and the distributor gives Amazon a warranty rebate to cover these kind of eventualities with returns. So I believe that my original thinking is now (inadvertently!) correct and we should be kicking these back to Amazon, except they seem to continue to try and push customers back to ourselves.

We're now in the slightly bizarre situation where I've just spent £20 ordering one of our own products off Amazon! I am going to try and go down the route our customers do of making a return after 30 days so I can see exactly what the procedure is and/or exactly what the Amazon response is.

 

[AmazonGeek]

Ah, that makes sense.

If you sell enough as a brand then Amazon can approach you to set up a Vendor account, but I wouldn't recommend it for smaller brands. It puts a lot of power in Amazon's hands and most of the benefits that used to be exclusive to vendors (Vine, A+, A+ premium, video, etc) are now available to everyone.

If your distributor is giving the warranty then it should go back to them and not you.

This actually opens up a whole other can of worms - what happens when third parties effectively register themselves as if they are the brand?

The process should be as follows:

1 - Your register your trademark and have your product manufactured with that trademark on the product/packaging (amazon now wants to see photos of a product first to prove you are a genuine brand)
2 - You sign up to Amazon's 'Brand Registry' so that any listings you create under that brand name are protected. No one can add an offer to those listings unless they are selling that identical branded product, which is unlikely unless you are selling to distributors/retailers. And even then, they are unlikely to be able to compete with your price

In the past, this has happened instead:
1 - Someone registers a generic trademark and applies to the brand registry using a dummied-up product to convince Amazon they are a genuine brand.
2 - They set up an account with GS1 to buy their own barcodes
3 - Once through the initial Brand Registry checks, they buy your branded product and create a listing under their brand name using their barcodes so that the listing is protected from other sellers adding their offers.
3 - Other retailers that you sell to do the same, so you now have multiple listings for the same product (which Amazon doesn't like)

It gets even more complicated if you then decide you want to start protecting your brand on Amazon. You would do this by registering your trademark with the Amazon Brand Registry.

The problem is that Amazon wants to see 5 things matching...

1 - The company name and address on the Amazon Seller Central account
2 - The company name/address on the bank account you have used on your Amazon account
3 - The company name/address on Companies House
4 - The company name/address on the GS1 account that has been used to buy the barcodes for creating the listing on Amazon
5 - The company name/address registered with the IPO on the account that owns the trademark

As long as these 5 things match you are fine. But in the above situation they won't match so Amazon will start suppressing those listings.

So not a simple situation but in your circumstances you should be expected to back up the sale - that is down to your distributor that has the vendor account so I would get in touch with them.