Alcohol & Venue License - Do I Need One?

[Barney2201]

We are looking at taking on a country estate style property where we will hold weddings. The concept is to provide an 'all inclusive' style event, therefore one fee includes everything from the food to the flowers and most importantly the Alcohol (beer, wine & Champagne) If the alcohol is effectivly given away with the cost of the event do I need any type of license? We only plan a maximum of 12 weddings per year so not exactly big business!

Also do I need to license the venue as it is only for private events by invitation only?

Lastly if we are giving away the alcohol can we effectively bring in wine and champagne from France and not pay any duty

Any info would be most welcome

Thanks

 

[JADEMEDIA]

You still need a licence if you give alcohol away unless it is a private function and private in this context doesn't necessarily mean not open to the general public. Private Members Clubs require a licence. Those corporate events you see around golf courses and racecourses where the shampoo flows. Supplied by a licenced caterer and therin lies a point that you might have missed.

It is fairly easy to get a temp licence for this type of event especially if one member of the team has a personal alcohol licence. What isn't easy is getting good trade prices and reliable cooks and waiters etc for an occasional event and I am afraid to say that you don't seem to have got any idea on pricing yet which alone should be a major concern.

For a start. As already mentioned Yes - you would have to pay duty on imports even if you poured the wine straight down the drain and frankly importing on such a modest scale isn't worth it anyway when you add all the overall costs together because the margins are extremely small right across the board.

I still have 2 trade cards for major Cash & Carry warehouse from when my father had a wine bar for example. A case (6 bottles ) of fairly decent dry white wine costs around £14-£15 + VAT wholesale. That's about £16.50. For a well know brand you can expect to pay £20 a case plus the time spent buying a transport and wait till you try that.

Loading 50 cases of booze on a trolly ain't easy and it all takes time. Get to the checkout and it goes on another trolly - yet more time. Off to the cash desk and you find yourself at the end of 20 other customers puffing and gasping for breath. More time at the security check and then finally out to the van. Whoops did I really say finally.

Now the whole lots needs loading from a trolly that will not stay still and knowing that when you get back to your premises the whole lot will have to be unloaded yet again you start asking yourself - what am I doing all this for ? to save £10 quid on the cheapest wine. Worse still to pay more for the decent ones than at a supermarket and get free delivery.

Seriously. You can buy 6 bottles of decent of wine at Tesco - Iceland - Somefield for £20 quid with another 5 -10% off. Delivery is free at Iceland and Somerfield. Shop around and you can do even better. You will find some very good wines at Sainsbury and Somerfield at the moment with 50% off. That is 30% less than the wholesalers. As for spirits. A litre of Smirnoff - Teachers etc around £11. That is £2-£5 cheaper than the wholesalers. The mention of which I treated myself recently. A bottle of fanatastic Saphire blue Bombay gin at the wholesalers around £17 plus vat. I paid £9.95 at Somerfield. Half trade price.

All in all Barney I think that you ought at your business plan again bearing in mind >

(1) This ain't no easy money game. Many of the venues offering this service like golf clubs and hotels already have a core service to rely on for revenue which in itself brings in trade for weddings and other functions. You on the other hand are having to rely on cold promotion.

(2) These other venues also have all the logistics in place. They can buy right and of vital importance can call on reliable temp staff where you on the other hand will find it difficult to recruit reliable casual staff especially if you are only offering a shift once a month. I know none of our old barmains would wait around for that sort of deal.

(3) I rather suspect that you liked the idea of an 'all inclusive' price because it would save you the trouble of obtaining a licence. Short cuts however are bad news in any business and it is a bad mistake to run a free bar all day and evening. A lot of that booze will be wasted and the customer will end up paying for it and in a very short time you will be uncompetitive. Not only that it doesnt make any sort of business sense either.

The best solution for your customers and as it happens the most profitable for you would be to agree a budget with the bride & groom for free drinks and just like the wedding dinner there should be a bar menu detailing what is free and what isn't. Something like - Standard beers - sparking wines - house wines - mixers - juice etc free with a time set for free spirits.

Premium champaigne should be extra and I'll tell you this. The guests will not mind one little bit. It makes them feel better discreetly ordering a vintage wine or champaigne and the cap on spirits stops people getting drunk too.

(4) May sound a little odd at first but think about it. There is good money to be made in catering and booze if you can buy right and deliver. There is good money in the flowers & photography too as we are talking services which in most cases can be delivered more cost-effectively by professionals in their own field.

If I were to start a venture like this then I would see my role as sales and project manager and outsource each specialist service. Certainly to begin with anyway. The gross profit may not be as high but you just might find the bottom line isn't much different and without all the hassle.

To paraphrase James Caen from the DD. What is 75% of a disaster. Minus Zero where a grand in the back pocket will do quite nicely thank you.

Jade

 

[Barney2201]

Thanks for the info Jademedia

I am fully aware of the issues surrounding the catering industry (we have owned 2 gastro pubs in the past!), we now run a successful events company based in London. We already produce many private events including weddings and parties all tailored towards the top end of the market.

The venue we are proposing is not going to compete with the local golf club or country house hotel, the venue will appeal to 'society' style weddings. The bride and groom will still choose the church (although there is a private church on the estate) and photographer etc. What we offer is an all inclusive venue to host the reception, catering for small weddings in the house itself (up to 80 guests) or via a marquee in the grounds. There will be three different pricing structures each with three options plus a bespoke option should the bride & groom have special requests. The aim is to simplify the whole wedding process, for X amount you get these three options, for Y amount you get these three options. This will allow us to produce an event which would normally cost 30-40% more at the same time allowing us to increase our profit margins by tying suppliers down to fixed costs for specific services.

All of our events at the moment NEVER ask guests to pay for alcohol, the host simply picks up the bill at the end. What we would like to do is to take it a step further and give the host a fixed cost before the event starts, even affluent people are being more careful with the pennies at the moment so fixed costs we see as a distinct advantage.

Non of the catering services will be supplied in house, we will outsource (probably using our London caters) all services, however I know I can purchase wine in France cheaper than the UK. I am not talking about 10 cases at a time, I am thinking more by the truck load. I just wanted to know where we stood with import duty and a license if we were technically not selling the product buy the glass / bottle etc.

 

[JADEMEDIA]

Hi Barney.
I am surprised that as you already run events you do not know the licensing laws particularly as you have already owned pubs. I appreciate that you can't get everying down in a few posts and times do change.

20 years ago for instance the LVA were all powerful in objecting to new licences including temp ones and much supported by the police. Today they are very easy to obtain. One of the good things to come out of Europe. The problem with those guys however is they never know when to stop and if you owned your gastro pubs more than 5 years ago you will need to take account of the following.

Pre 2004/5 Pubs - Wines Bars - Venues were licenced and that was basically it. A new owner/mager would simply go along to the magistrates and have the licence transfered into their name. While their worships did question these applicants about experience etc the whole process was more of less a formality.

Today the situation is different. As well as the property needing to be licenced the manager/owner has to have a 'personal' licence too. This involves sitting an examination where the applicant has to get 90% of the questions right.

It is I gather easy to slip up but the questions are mostly tick which box and the course can always set again. There are lots of companies offering these 1 day courses cost about £125 - £200. You might find the personl managers licence worth looking into then.

The other area that you might want to look at which can hit the profit margins is Doorman for licenced premises. I am not sure how it works with marquees but in building you need just 1 but 2 on the main door and another on each other/exit. An expensive operation as doormen these days are far more professional than they used to be and again need a licence and fees reflect this.

Anyway. Hope the info helps and good luck with your venture. Jade

 

[JADEMEDIA]

Whoops. Forgot. Don't know where your venue is Barney. I do know some of these caters like C----n can be expensive so I let you in on a secret or at something that is not generally known and that is pop along to your nearest YMCA and have a chat with the Chefs (and that are that not just cooks.) about then doing the catering. Many do private functions either through the YMCA or in their spare time and these guys are fantastic. They can produce say 6 different main courses in volume and of a quality and presntation that would be the envy of many a top class hotel.

Despite all that you would be amazed what a tight budgets these guys work on during the week. Typically under £2 I believe and that is for a 3 course meal including cuts like Roast Beef . Sliced Pork and Turkey off the bone and a selection of half a dozen veg. Most of it farm fresh too.

Given their customer base they can also produce terrific Indo- China meals. In short. You name it. They can produce at an almost unbelievable cost including some fancy nibbles and sweets.

Jade.

 

[sscott]

im planning to put on art exhibitions that last 4 weeks at a time. they will have an opening night on the first 2 evenings (5 - 9pm) with free wine and beer for every guest. each show will take place in shops that are not being used and i will be renting for a short period of time. do i need a licence for this? i already have a personal licence.

and also what will i need to do if i want to have dj's playing too?

 

[Angeleyes34]

Hi

I am looking into purchasing the franchise of a online drinks company. The idea is people order online and you deliver anytime of the day within a map area of travel time no more than 20-40 mins. The company I am looking to buy the frnachise from are based on one part of london and I would cover a area they do not. I am yet to get their accounts etc and the specifics of buying the franchise. Just wanted to know if I am only selling and delivering drinks via a online website what type of licence do I need? Also do I need to have a offical premises even though the is a online business delivering to the customer? I have not been specific in details simply because until I have purchased this I dont want people to know names etc, as I feel there is a niche in this area and could be profitable...