Advice on Digital Printer for Printing Business

[sksservices]

Hi All

Part of my business is an online printing company. I get paid and sent the artwork and i outsource to a printer who delivers under plain label. As i already sort out all the artwork i am thinking of printing some of my orders by investing in a digital printer. The orders i get are for all sizes and thicknesses of leaflets, business cards, compliment slips etc. Some orders such as NCR pads and catalogues i will still outsource, but i am looking to invest in a machine for the rest and for quick jobs that are needed urgently. I currently get in several thousands of pounds worth of orders each month so feelit could be a good idea but i have no experience or knowledge of a digital printer. Can anyone reccomend a good machine or give any advice?

Thanks
Steve

 

[14Steve14]

I will watch this thread as I am in a similar position to the OP and am looking for a printer. I currently sub all the printing out, but now would like to change and do some in house to save costs. The whole printer thing is above me and I dont even understand half of the terminology used in high end printers.

 

[ethical PR]

Professional printers cost a decent wack and you have inks and maintenance on top.

Are you sure it will be cheaper than outsourcing?

 

[sksservices]

Professional printers cost a decent wack and you have inks and maintenance on top.

Are you sure it will be cheaper than outsourcing?

I am aware that the costs may be high but we are talking a lot of orders and i am sure that my ousourcer is making a profit on my orders, so why cant I?

 

[Socio South West]

No reason at all you can't make a profit.... but make sure you do your sums properly before you invest, as you can quite easily make a loss and a substantial one at that. Printing is a notoriously fickle trade where collapses are quite common if the sums are slightly wrong.

Your question on the most suitable machine is probably a bit broad as it stands - if you narrow it down with some size, volume and media specification someone will be able to guide you much better. A google of 'digital press' might be a good starting point?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

I would go into your local Staples and have a look at what they have in there customer printing area, I would assume they did a lot of research before they invested in all their shops and the machines must be of a good quality

You could also go into other printing shops and see whats the most common printer

Far better than buying the best review in a magazine and being the only person using it.

 

[The Byre]

1. What type of printer are we talking about here?

2. What type of order are we looking at first - posters, cards, leaflets, booklets, what?

3. How big does the order have to be, before you go to offset?

4. I suggest you go to one of the large computer fairs (e.g. CeBIT in Hannover) before making a decision - there are dozens and dozens of types and thousands of models out there!

 

[businessfunding]

I suggest you get things rolling by contacting your local Canon & Xerox dealers (they are highly trained salesmen so stick pins in your pen hand)

The discussion should guide you as to what variables and technologies you need to be considering.

From there, go to a dedicated print forum & start asking specific questions

As others have suggested, stocks and consumables are key considerations.

 

[Vectis]

I am aware that the costs may be high but we are talking a lot of orders and i am sure that my ousourcer is making a profit on my orders, so why cant I?

But are you actually talking about a lot of orders? You say the amount you put out to your printer is a couple of thousand Pounds each month? That could be just two or three jobs or lots of very small jobs. If it's lots of small jobs, how much profit do you think there is on each order?

You also need to keep in mind that if you're doing the printing yourself then anything that goes wrong, and things do tend to go wrong with print, that it's going to be you who has to sort it out and the cost is going to come off your bottom line. Whereas at the moment you can go back to your printer and tell them to sort it out and it needn't cost you anything.

I'm not saying don't do it but you'll have to increase the amount and value of the work you are currently getting in to cover the additional costs. After all, the printer who you are using at present isn't just doing your work, he's presumably doing lots of work for other customers too. Are you going to be able to find more print work to keep your new printer busy?

As to what digital printer to invest in, why not ask the printer you're using at the moment what equipment he has and, if you're happy with the results he gives you (which I assume you are), then why not go down the same route?

 

[sksservices]

Your question on the most suitable machine is probably a bit broad as it stands - if you narrow it down with some size, volume and media specification someone will be able to guide you much better. A google of 'digital press' might be a good starting point?

Funnily enough my first port of call was Google, but there is nothing advising some good startup digital printers or any non confusing information.
As for size/volume currently i receive around £2,000 per week in orders which are generally for flyers A6/A5/A4 and folded in thickness from 130gsm up to 300gsm and business cards which are 400gsm card. Quantities from 500 - 5000 in general. I also get orders for NCR pads,posters and UV stuff that i plan to continue to outsource.I currently get 3-8orders most days so i think that it is worth a shot to print some of this in-house along with the rush jobs people always want.

 

[Davek0974]

As a traditional offset printer of some 34 years, I can only say be careful, very careful.

Look at machines such as the HP Indigo and also offerings from Ricoh which are very capable machines, probably better than the indigo. However, they all come with click charges and contracts that are furiously protected - they get very pi**ed off if you try and get out early etc.

These machines are big, not a home-setup size idea - the last Rico unit we looked at was over 8m long!, I presume you have premises etc?? Then you have paper to source, some of these machines only handle specific papers so you can't simply chuck in a pack of cheapo letterhead paper and expect quality. As far as I know, and I follow this closely, NO digital press can give the quality of offset litho yet, i'm not sure if this matters as I have no idea how your current work is produced.

Qty wise, it generally switches to offset litho at around 1500 sheets of A3 sized work based on price per, this varies on the machine though.

personally, if I were your position I would stay as a middle-man - there are less headaches and possibly more profit to be had.

 

[sksservices]

how much profit do you think there is on each order?

The profit for me is between 30-40% of the sale price

You also need to keep in mind that if you're doing the printing yourself then anything that goes wrong, and things do tend to go wrong with print, that it's going to be you who has to sort it out and the cost is going to come off your bottom line. Whereas at the moment you can go back to your printer and tell them to sort it out and it needn't cost you anything.

I understand about technical problems and would obviously setup a service contract for the printer that i buy.

Are you going to be able to find more print work to keep your new printer busy?

The business i get at the moment is just from search engine traffic. If i start promoting the business i'm sure i can get much more.

why not ask the printer you're using at the moment what equipment he has and, if you're happy with the results he gives you (which I assume you are), then why not go down the same route?

I could try this, but they are a much bigger outfit with litho and digital printers, as he gets a lot of business from me, he might not want to divulge details.

 

[sksservices]

As a traditional offset printer of some 34 years, I can only say be careful, very careful.

Look at machines such as the HP Indigo and also offerings from Ricoh which are very capable machines, probably better than the indigo. However, they all come with click charges and contracts that are furiously protected - they get very pi**ed off if you try and get out early etc.

These machines are big, not a home-setup size idea - the last Rico unit we looked at was over 8m long!, I presume you have premises etc?? Then you have paper to source, some of these machines only handle specific papers so you can't simply chuck in a pack of cheapo letterhead paper and expect quality. As far as I know, and I follow this closely, NO digital press can give the quality of offset litho yet, i'm not sure if this matters as I have no idea how your current work is produced.

Qty wise, it generally switches to offset litho at around 1500 sheets of A3 sized work based on price per, this varies on the machine though.

personally, if I were your position I would stay as a middle-man - there are less headaches and possibly more profit to be had.

Thanks Dave. I was considering maybe buying a second hand digital press and see how things go, if it turns out to be too much hassle i can just move it on. The printer i use has both digital and litho printers but i just want to try a digital machine for 6 months and see if i can make it pay. I do have staff and premises to use. I must admit though i have never heard of click charges!!?

 

[Davek0974]

Thanks Dave. I was considering maybe buying a second hand digital press and see how things go, if it turns out to be too much hassle i can just move it on. The printer i use has both digital and litho printers but i just want to try a digital machine for 6 months and see if i can make it pay. I do have staff and premises to use. I must admit though i have never heard of click charges!!?

If you buy the machine yourself then you will not have a click charge, these machines are 99% of the time used on a lease system paid for by click charges which cover the cost of consumables etc. You would certainly need a service contract as these machines are not reliable and again, if leased then this is mostly covered so is not an issue, an inconvenience maybe.

 

[RelyOnIT]

A friend of ours owns a company that supplies reconditioned printers like you need. If you are interested let me know and I can put you in touch

 

[DavidWH]

We have a xerox press, as mentioned above.

Digital isn't any good for high quantities, due to the click charge. Click costs vary from machines, your volume, and usually you need to commit to X thousand clicks per quarter (which you pay for regardless if you use them or not)

If you don't go for a maintenance contract on your machine, expect expensive consumables/service call outs, they're full of sensors, and other electrickery.

You will also need a guillotine to make it even viable to print leaflets.

Then you'll start looking at folding machines, creasing machines, it takes a surprisingly long time to fold 1000+ tri fold leaflets by hand.

Our digital press will handle up to 350gsm, and it has to be manually duplexed (again time)

On older machines the registration when duplexing isn't that accurate 1-2mm so depending on the artwork it can be a nightmare.

If you're serious I would get some quotes on machines/click rates etc, and then over the next 3 months work out your cost digital vs outsourcing... you might find the margins just aren't worth the agro.

 

[TheBannerWarehouse]

We print large format and we also have a small department for our small format printing. If I was you starting out, I would lease some equipment and get a service contract, then you know if it breaks you can get an engineer to come out and fix quickly. This is really important if you do not know much about printers and your just starting out.

 

[RelyOnIT]

Thanks Dave. I was considering maybe buying a second hand digital press and see how things go, if it turns out to be too much hassle i can just move it on. The printer i use has both digital and litho printers but i just want to try a digital machine for 6 months and see if i can make it pay. I do have staff and premises to use. I must admit though i have never heard of click charges!!?

If you contact this guy nick@ repro-sales.com he would more than likely we able to help and probably save you a lot of money. Just tell him James gave you his email address.

I had to put a space in the email as it won't let me post email addresses