Advice - food vans?

[katesburgers]

Hello,

First post here! Just wondered if anyone had any experience of running a food van and I would like to get any opinions if possible.

I'm hoping to start a business creating handmade burgers from scratch - also offering options such as gluten free buns.

I think there is a severe shortage of burger vans supplying quality/tasty food at festivals and events - and while I know not everyone cares about the quality of the meat, some of it is vile, rubbery and so dry it would be better used laying a children's play area!

I've no doubt that most of the burger vans are bulk-buying pre-made burgers from the same suppliers but I think I could achieve a much better quality product from buying meat and making the burgers fresh on the day and the difference in taste would be a world apart from what other burger vans offer.

I'd also be looking to provide other food/drink to accompany but I just think the USP would be in providing quality food that tastes like it should.

Anyone have any opinions? Anyone tried this before? Any obvious pitfalls that I'm not seeing?

 

[Daugela]

Who is your target market?
Have considered offering vegan and/or vegetarian burgers? Vegan market is growing massively year on year.

 

[Mr D]

Have you experienced making burgers from scratch? They can be far superior to the mass produced stuff, not least with herbs, fruit or veg mixed into the burger itself. Perhaps a market for more than just plain burger.

However burgers take time to make - is prepared the day before good enough for a one day event?
How many burgers can you sell in a day at an event?
You don't want to get in the situation of trying to make the burgers while someone is waiting for their order because you had run out of prepared ones.

A decent burger that was good quality I'd be prepared to pay higher price for.

 

[katesburgers]

Who is your target market?
Have considered offering vegan and/or vegetarian burgers? Vegan market is growing massively year on year.

Definitely something we could look to include!

Have you experienced making burgers from scratch? They can be far superior to the mass produced stuff, not least with herbs, fruit or veg mixed into the burger itself. Perhaps a market for more than just plain burger.

However burgers take time to make - is prepared the day before good enough for a one day event?
How many burgers can you sell in a day at an event?
You don't want to get in the situation of trying to make the burgers while someone is waiting for their order because you had run out of prepared ones.

I have indeed and really enjoy making them which is always a bonus! I couldn't agree more, this idea has come from the disgust I felt when I tasted one of the burgers at a recent event I attended.

Prepared the day before is definitely good enough for a one day event and that was part of the plan, still much much fresher than the competition. Not sure how many burgers I could expect to sell in all honesty and wouldn't want to put a figure on it with my limited experience. Hopefully someone here with experience of this area would be able to help?

A decent burger that was good quality I'd be prepared to pay higher price for.

Me too!

 

[GTL]

I've some festival experience, albeit not selling burgers.

Firstly I would suggest looking at this on a long term basis. The top festivals are hugely expensive and often impossible to attend (waiting lists); Glastonbury is a good examples of this. I am aware of people who have had to re-mortgage to afford the pitch fees.

Second, you could look at 'lower scale' events such as country shows or point to points etc. My brother did this for a few years and made some nice cash. But it was irregular and very weather dependent.

Third, I am not so sure the market isn't already saturated with quality. Having been to places like carfest, the big feastival etc, the quality on offer was top notch.

I am not saying don't do it - but don't risk everything. Look at the weather for instance thus far this year - you'll be surprised how badly a bit of rain and lower temperatures negatively impact footfall.

The upside is of course that burgers can be high margin (and you really MUST focus on your margin) and as you say, dietary trends are changing. With good footfall and decent weather, you can make a killing. But, it will take time to develop a presence at events.

Finally, my bro and his wife re boiled their upmarket sausages the day before - thus they just had to be flash cooked on the grill.I think it was legal......

 

[Mr D]

I've some festival experience, albeit not selling burgers.

Firstly I would suggest looking at this on a long term basis. The top festivals are hugely expensive and often impossible to attend (waiting lists); Glastonbury is a good examples of this. I am aware of people who have had to re-mortgage to afford the pitch fees.

Second, you could look at 'lower scale' events such as country shows or point to points etc. My brother did this for a few years and made some nice cash. But it was irregular and very weather dependent.

Third, I am not so sure the market isn't already saturated with quality. Having been to places like carfest, the big feastival etc, the quality on offer was top notch.

I am not saying don't do it - but don't risk everything. Look at the weather for instance thus far this year - you'll be surprised how badly a bit of rain and lower temperatures negatively impact footfall.

The upside is of course that burgers can be high margin (and you really MUST focus on your margin) and as you say, dietary trends are changing. With good footfall and decent weather, you can make a killing. But, it will take time to develop a presence at events.

Finally, my bro and his wife re boiled their upmarket sausages the day before - thus they just had to be flash cooked on the grill.I think it was legal......

Oh yes, the weather.
There's a village event I've been to every year for the past 15 years its been on, even if I have to travel a distance to attend.
13 years out of 15 its had rain. It gets maybe a couple of hundred people.
The years it hasn't rained, better part of 2 thousand people attend.

A good place to trial that's not going to be too expensive - local village events, local market days - an old couple had a hot food trailer set up at a local market 3 days a week, often busy. Awful burgers but OK bacon.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Go to any show and you find outrages prices for take away food, not the fault of the store owner but required to earn a living after the ground rent and travel costs

Spit roast a whole cow, or do a Hog roast can get buyers paying over the normal, just paying even more for a hand made burger, is unlikely to sell many; and send most punters to the cheaper next burger stall

Normally the Hog Roasts are awful these days nothing like good ones at like weddings or private parties

Dont forget you need extra serving staff to match the customers demands and give staff a break

 

[SH247]

I have to disagree there,

just paying even more for a hand made burger, is unlikely to sell many; and send most punters to the cheaper next burger stall

I'd have to disagree there, you pay through the nose for any food at an event, captive audience n' all that. If I'm going to be ripped off I'd much rather be ripped off and enjoy it than being ripped off for something I don't even come close to enjoying. I've tasted some of the worst burgers in my life at events and I'd definitely pay a bit more for something of a good quality.

Also think there's a large and ever-growing market for animal welfare and I'm sure as hell your average burger van hasn't got that in mind! Locally sourced, high quality meat makes you attractive in more ways than one... taste and ethics!

 

[Chris Ashdown]

97.8765% of people asked would pay more for milk to support the farmers but then go and buy the cheapest

Only a tiny few will pay more for organic or free range meat, but will all tell you they would like to but dont follow their convictions

 

[SH247]

97.8765% of people asked would pay more for milk to support the farmers but then go and buy the cheapest

Only a tiny few will pay more for organic or free range meat, but will all tell you they would like to but dont follow their convictions

Ha ha I don't disagree with that. But I think the taste factor makes a lot of difference! Why pay for overpriced rubber when you can pay a quid more for overpriced good quality enjoyable food?

 

[Mr D]

97.8765% of people asked would pay more for milk to support the farmers but then go and buy the cheapest

Only a tiny few will pay more for organic or free range meat, but will all tell you they would like to but dont follow their convictions

A large percentage say they would pay more tax to support the NHS. The actual number who do pay more tax by choice can be single digit numbers (not percentages, just a few people) - and some of them pay pence.

Declared intent and actions taken can be VERY different.

 

[GTL]

i agree with @SH247 - at the decent events, a lot of people go for quality over price

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Buit the difference is that of having the company make a profit and not. Its a massive difference to most people who have been fleeced of over £20 entry to a event or maybe £50 per family to expect them to pay more for a perceived difference in value of say £4 per family

All I can suggest is go to some events and look who has the longest queue, there the ones who go home happy

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Friend of mine was at an American car show last year... the vendor who had the shortest queue was the happiest as they had sold out and were packing up... had no more wares to sell... two chaps smugly wrapping up there little trailer... happily discarding there bin area and seating area... walking away with what we reckoned on being about 4-5 grand for less than a days work...


Selling pot noodles for £3.00 a pop with a buttered bread roll....

When they trundled on the night before and parked up next to my mate they got chatting... they'd brought a huge water bowser around 2000 pot noodles and 2000 buns... obviously they didn' comment on how much they'd paid for the site or even the noodles and buns... but we reckon they'd made a decent wack.

Sometimes it's not always about what you think would work... it' about appealing to the masses... you may think the burgers are naff... but they'e still trading, they're still selling that same naff burger every day to the same customers that keep going back... they still have loyal customers otherwise they wouldn't be there... it's finding that other reason as to why those burgers are selling... Or not selling... there's burger vans out there that sell more bacon or sausage butties than burgers because they're crap but there's always someone who will come along and ask for the notorious burgers they do...

 

[Noah]

I think there is a severe shortage of burger vans supplying quality/tasty food at festivals and events

You've had some good advice here. Speaking from experience with many such events, you need to understand that the organisers don't necessarily care about quality - their primary concern is pitch/stand/stall fees, and related income ("sponsorship", "pouring rights", etc.) Those organisers stand between you and your customers. Want to get through them? Pay lots of money.

From what I have seen there is fierce competition among event food providers; the shortage you perceive is only in your own self-defined niche, which may well be irrelevant to event organisers.

Good luck.

 

[Noah]

Sometimes it's not always about what you think would work... it' about appealing to the masses... you may think the burgers are naff... but they'e still trading, they're still selling that same naff burger every day to the same customers that keep going back

Food and drink "quality" is very subjective. Price is not.

Value? Well, that is subjective too. But you have to sell that to the event before you can try to sell it to event attendees.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

I could count the many many greasy spoons I've visited over the years and the many many burger vans I've visited... all gave me the same style food and service, to be fair some of the vans had a better service than the cafes - but it's all boiled down to one thing and one thing only...

What was I prepared to spend.

A burger at a cafe cost me £3.50 with chips... Or £3.00 without... yet a van offered the same at £4.00 with no optional chips... they where extra... so I bought a cheese & bacon muffin for £2.50...

I still bought from them irrelevant of the quality - you can't tell quality until you've purchased... a queue doesn't always mean you're getting a better deal... it just means you have to wait for the let down in some cases...

With regards to the event... but sorry... all the people that run the event are bothered about is selling pitches and getting attendees through the entrance.

 

[ethical PR]

All of the festivals I have gone to in recent years have had a large range of food stalls offering quality products including a range of burgers - as good street food is what people attending them expect. So quality burgers wouldn't really be much of a USP.

However if you can develop a strong brand and provide decent, quality food, I am sure people will buy from you.

Do your market research and start by selling at local street and farmers market to trial your burgers before trying the bigger events.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

A food van sells maybe Hundreds a week, McDonalds and Burger King sell Millions

Worth a thought

 

[Mr D]

Buit the difference is that of having the company make a profit and not. Its a massive difference to most people who have been fleeced of over £20 entry to a event or maybe £50 per family to expect them to pay more for a perceived difference in value of say £4 per family

All I can suggest is go to some events and look who has the longest queue, there the ones who go home happy

Or the place with the longest queue is the most popular. Not necessarily cheapest or best. Location can make it most popular too.

 

[Mr D]

A food van sells maybe Hundreds a week, McDonalds and Burger King sell Millions

Worth a thought

How many will a single place sell and how cheap is it to get established with Mcdonalds or burger king?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

People are talking quality and poor quality, I wonder how they rate the cheeseburger at McDonalds as so many seem to buy them and they state the burger is all meat from the front end of the cow

 

[Mr D]

People are talking quality and poor quality, I wonder how they rate the cheeseburger at McDonalds as so many seem to buy them and they state the burger is all meat from the front end of the cow

Mcdonalds don't make the best burgers. They merely sell the most burgers.
I've never eaten a burger at Mcdonalds, don't intend to. I do like their chicken nuggets.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

So what do you base this judgement on, your top restaurant may sell the same burger at £15.00 is it better or just more profitable. At the end of the day they have spent millions to make what they consider the best they can at the price they want and as its only meet from cows the variations cannot be that great

My point is the OP was or Is going to sell top range Beefburgers but whats that judged on, few just eat a burger they have various additions to them and the way they are cooked, you get one from a greasy spoon and the burger could be the best, but ruined by cooking or covering is crap ketchup or poor quality cheese / roll. so many variables

Just stating the obvious that if you copy the leader your chances of failure are much improved

 

[Mr D]

So what do you base this judgement on, your top restaurant may sell the same burger at £15.00 is it better or just more profitable. At the end of the day they have spent millions to make what they consider the best they can at the price they want and as its only meet from cows the variations cannot be that great

My point is the OP was or Is going to sell top range Beefburgers but whats that judged on, few just eat a burger they have various additions to them and the way they are cooked, you get one from a greasy spoon and the burger could be the best, but ruined by cooking or covering is crap ketchup or poor quality cheese / roll. so many variables

Just stating the obvious that if you copy the leader your chances of failure are much improved

And I can make and serve a burger.
To friends and family who will eat Mcdonalds burgers. Mine are far superior and I'll eat my own burgers.

To say the serving of a burger is simply down to the meat is to miss so much.
The bun, the burger, the topping, the sauce, the vegetable, how the burger is cooked - all relevant.
Did you hear about James Martin's place at Glasgow airport recently?
http://metro.co.uk/2018/04/08/james...utrage-par-burger-just-one-complaint-7450107/

How is a place in a high rent area able to serve a burger (OK, this does look substandard) at so much higher price than mcdonalds? Or how about in a pub - a burger in a bun isn't uncommon on pub menus and is higher price than mcdonalds by a considerable amount.

Better ingredients (yes that is a multiple) do come into it.

 

[GTL]

Well Burger me if this thread isn't getting a little bit saucy!

Actually the selection of the ingredients/meat is very important @Chris Ashdown - not least the cut of the meat, content percentage of fat, inclusion of seasoning (and the way it is cooked). these things have a huge impact on taste.

As is the type of roll in which it is served (brioche or a plain bun) which makes a big difference to texture and taste. Plus the bacon (streaky or back/smoked or unsmoked / etc), etc etc.

There are a lot of folk who will pay an extra few quid now and again for a top range burger. It's the now and again which is important, and many festivals are wonderful places to sell to an engaged audience (if you can afford a ticket to Jamie's Festival, you're in the market for gourmet food).

There is something beautifully slutty and downright deliciously filthy about a cheap burger and onions, maybe a cheese square and seafood sauce drizzle (if it's not run out), in a bap. But sometimes, a high end 'Burger a La Maserati' is just what the doctor ordered. But the more niche, the harder it is to get a pitch; because everybody's at it.

 

[katesburgers]

Thank you all for your feedback.

I agree, it will be the venues that are the pricey part of this venture.
I also agree with vegan/gluten free options - these seem to be rising trends and offering a simple selection of, i.e burgers, done well with these as options can be done a lot better and actually taste great. I think it is worth a shot.
I don't think lots options and all this "gourmet" malarkey is actually necessary, I think it actually puts people off.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but simplicity is usually best? If you go to a burger stall you want a burger, and when it tastes like an actual burger with some substance then surely, win win?

A decent well seasoned burger and crunchy fluffy chips anyone?

 

[SH247]

Well seasoned burger with crunchy fluffy chips sounds good to me... I really do think there are a proportion of people who know they're getting stuffed over no matter what they buy for food so may as well get stuffed over and eat something nice! Also acknowledge there's a large group of people who don't care and would opt for a thin bit of rubber for a quid less.

Burger A (cheap rubbery meat, overcooked, reared in a Thai sweat farm) vs Burger B (handmade, perfectly seasoned, chunky burgers, reared on a local farm). Surely theres a huge amount of people in their right mind that would choose burger B ? Surely.... even for a couple of quid more

 

[Mr D]

Well seasoned burger with crunchy fluffy chips sounds good to me... I really do think there are a proportion of people who know they're getting stuffed over no matter what they buy for food so may as well get stuffed over and eat something nice! Also acknowledge there's a large group of people who don't care and would opt for a thin bit of rubber for a quid less.

Burger A (cheap rubbery meat, overcooked, reared in a Thai sweat farm) vs Burger B (handmade, perfectly seasoned, chunky burgers, reared on a local farm). Surely theres a huge amount of people in their right mind that would choose burger B ? Surely.... even for a couple of quid more

Yes there are those of us who choose option B.

 

[Jack Samuels]

Hello,

First post here! Just wondered if anyone had any experience of running a food van and I would like to get any opinions if possible.

I'm hoping to start a business creating handmade burgers from scratch - also offering options such as gluten free buns.

I think there is a severe shortage of burger vans supplying quality/tasty food at festivals and events - and while I know not everyone cares about the quality of the meat, some of it is vile, rubbery and so dry it would be better used laying a children's play area!

I've no doubt that most of the burger vans are bulk-buying pre-made burgers from the same suppliers but I think I could achieve a much better quality product from buying meat and making the burgers fresh on the day and the difference in taste would be a world apart from what other burger vans offer.

I'd also be looking to provide other food/drink to accompany but I just think the USP would be in providing quality food that tastes like it should.

Anyone have any opinions? Anyone tried this before? Any obvious pitfalls that I'm not seeing?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Many items are sold after giving a small taster, think of buying Honey, Cheese, Olive Oil,Salami, wine and so on, its not unusual to ask for a small sample to taste before buying especially at say country fairs. what this does is prove the quality is not just bullshite

With a burger van on a busy day how do you prove that your super burger is what it says and worth extra dosh

 

[Mr D]

Many items are sold after giving a small taster, think of buying Honey, Cheese, Olive Oil,Salami, wine and so on, its not unusual to ask for a small sample to taste before buying especially at say country fairs. what this does is prove the quality is not just ********e

With a burger van on a busy day how do you prove that your super burger is what it says and worth extra dosh

Small piece of burger, small piece of bun, held together with cocktail stick. Similar way the supermarkets display a new pork pie or scotch egg for eating at the deli counter.

 

[GTL]

I have never seen a gourmet burger stand offering samples, indeed have never seen a cheap burger stand offering samples. I don't think this is required if you have a good looking stand, professional looking staff and a hungry audience.

really, I think we have overthought this thread. there is a market for good and not so good burgers. Some people will buy gourmet, others won't.

For the vendor it is offering the right product to the right market at the right price; and hopefully making a decent turn at the same time.

But really, do we need to carry on the thread?!

 

[Toby Willows]

I have never seen a gourmet burger stand offering samples, indeed have never seen a cheap burger stand offering samples. I don't think this is required if you have a good looking stand, professional looking staff and a hungry audience.

really, I think we have overthought this thread. there is a market for good and not so good burgers. Some people will buy gourmet, others won't.

For the vendor it is offering the right product to the right market at the right price; and hopefully making a decent turn at the same time.

But really, do we need to carry on the thread?!

I agree, I’ll always chose a gourmet burger over a cheap one at a event (I’m there for a good time with money to spend so cost isn’t a issue). There’s a place for both and you’ll usually find both at most events. People are happy to spend on eating out (be that mobile, take-away or sit down) these days, more so than ever in fact.

Hell, just go to the dogs and you’ll find a upmarket restaurant upstairs and cheap crap downstairs. There’s markets for both at most events.