Admin roles - Nightmare?

[hargreaves56]

I don't know if it's just me or everyone else at the moment, but we are really struggling to find good admin people to do well... admin! By admin I mean anything that the business needs doing on a day-to-day basis. For example:

> Approving applications to our website.
> Checking blog comments and reviews on our site.
> Copying and pasting.
> Monthly report tasks.
> Arranging webinars and making sure attendees have been sent all the info.

The sort of work I wouldn't want to do as it's going to be repetitive and a bit tedious at times. There also isn't much job progression, maybe managing some other admins roles a bit in the future. But it is what it is, and that's perfect for the right type of person. I am sure they could do it a lot better than I could too.

I thought there would be an abundance of people at the moment looking for work that was flexible and can be done from home or anywhere really.

We started with Indeed and got about 100 applications down to about 5 that looked alright. One of the first tests we do is send them a typical email we might receive and ask them to reply. This is to test their spelling/grammar and just check they can write emails professionally. They all failed. I'm not the best at spelling but I was amazed at how many people don't use full stops or paragraphs or use txt talk abbreviations.

We then tried a local recruitment guy. He charges about £3000 a go and the people he put to interview also couldn't write very well.

This would be an ideal job for a part-time Mum or Dad or anyone that doesn't want much stress but happy to do the hours.

We are a friendly bunch too and nice to work with.

Any tips?

 

[Mr D]

Up the pay you are offering or rewrite the advert and re advertise.

Yes there are people capable of doing such a job. Whether what you are offering is good enough to get the right applicants is open to question. So far it appears not.

Perhaps a different test could work? I've had to do multiple tests as part of job application processes over the years, often a maths and english test done at the same time. Those not meeting minimum criteria don't get considered to go to interview stage - and sometimes the bar is pretty high. So some sort of different test? Or present the test differently and keep the test itself.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Had a conversation the other week about the good old days of regional newspapers which were better for filling some jobs as potential employees, who may not have been looking for change, would fall upon adverts when browsing the paper. These days more proactive web searching or going through the process of registering with or respond to agencies etc., is the norm.

Might be worth casting your net via local magazines and Facebook pages?

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

Just a thought, how many hours is it over how many?

Is it possible that you're not offering enough for someone, e.g. if it's only 8 hours a week / 1.5-2 hours a day, is it enough for someone to be interested with having to think about work every day but only getting paid for 8 hours at the end of the week? Conversely if it's not full time but, say 25 hours, is it slightly too many for people especially taking into account benefits etc - we have had people working 16 hours a week in the past and offered them 22 or 25 but it was more beneficial for them to stay on 16 and keep their benefits. The only way they'd have done better would be if we could have jumped them from 16 to a full 36/40 hour week, somewhere in the middle they didn't want.

 

[IanSuth]

I am selling pre recruitment assessments tests as a job - although for call handlers to determine ability to take information in through ears and then type into a computer swiftly and accurately. Amazed how many employers see no value in it at all, being more willing to just look for people who have done the job before than pay £25.

Prior to that i did 27.5yrs in recruitment, Indeed is good for what it is but you are sacrificing quality for quantity. £3k for an agency sounds like you are paying £20k and have been offered a 15% deal. Have you considered a temp to perm deal through an agency with a written agreement they discount any perm fee by margin already paid during temp phase ?

If not I would go back to Indeed again or use Reed (the free ad site part not the agency) and state in the advert "Due to the need for accuracy in this role, part of the interview process will include a grammar and spelling assessment" to put off wanabees, also ask around on your local facebook gossip type sites, you may find a parent/grandparent who sees they can fit this around school hours.

I know my mother was looking for a small accounts role now she has retired and as she is only half looking and more as something to do rather than for £ she wont sign up to a jobsite and just keeps an eye on the local free paper that comes through her door, hard to access those type of people who would likely actually be what would suit you best unless it is via word of mouth so get it out around your circle of contacts and somebody likely knows somebody who be interested

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Get a VA?

 

[AstEver]

Is your Employer Value Proposition, or put simply what you offer, attractive to quality candidates? 'Spray and Prey' strategies (in this case posting a random job ad at random places) rarely work and usually produce more work.

It may help if you think about recruiting in similar way as customer acqusition.

 

[Newchodge]

Is your Employer Value Proposition, or put simply what you offer, attractive to quality candidates? 'Spray and Prey' strategies (in this case posting a random job ad at random places) rarely work and usually produce more work.

It may help if you think about recruiting in similar way as customer acqusition.

Could you cut the jargon and put that in English, please?

 

[AstEver]

Could you cut the jargon and put that in English, please?

I don't think you can imagine how much I would like to be able to do it.

 

[Mr D]

Could you cut the jargon and put that in English, please?

The post looks fairly OK english apart from spelling. Explains the terms.

 

[WendyThompson]

Reading in today's news about a shortage of suitable job candidates in the hospitality sector. Hotels and restaurants may have to restrict hours because they can't recruit enough staff, probably because the people in those roles before have had to find other types of work. Maybe the lack of admin staff is connected?

 

[japancool]

Prey

Pray, not prey.

 

[Interestedobserver]

Reading in today's news about a shortage of suitable job candidates in the hospitality sector. Hotels and restaurants may have to restrict hours because they can't recruit enough staff, probably because the people in those roles before have had to find other types of work. Maybe the lack of admin staff is connected?

Hospitality relies on European and Other overseas staff that have great work ethic and want the work (many very happy just being able to visit the UK country and get work experience themselves and learn the language etc)

That's a huge problem both for the resorts and the cities to have to deal with

These guys just aren't there at the moment to employ

 

[Darren_Ssc]

Maybe the lack of admin staff is connected?

I am not so sure. I think describing a role as 'random admin work' is a bit vague and would require a bit of inside knowledge of the specifics?

I am not surprised the quality of candidates is not as the OP expected. Or, then again, is it just another Brit Bashing opportunity?

 

[AstEver]

According to Eric Weinstein, "Long term labor shortages do not happen naturally in market economies. That is not to say that they don't exist. They are created when employers or government agencies tamper with the natural functioning of the wage mechanism." (His paper is available online for free).

Nevertheless, it is easy for employers and HR professionals to complain about labour shortages, skills shortages, low quality candidates, high demands from candidates, etc. but if we have a closer look at what they offer and how they recruit it should not come as a surprise that they cannot fill a position.

I don't believe there is a shortage of good administrators on the labour market in the UK.

Pray, not prey.

Thank you.

 

[IanSuth]

According to Eric Weinstein, "Long term labor shortages do not happen naturally in market economies. That is not to say that they don't exist. They are created when employers or government agencies tamper with the natural functioning of the wage mechanism." (His paper is available online for free).

Nevertheless, it is easy for employers and HR professionals to complain about labour shortages, skills shortages, low quality candidates, high demands from candidates, etc. but if we have a closer look at what they offer and how they recruit it should not come as a surprise that they cannot fill a position.

I don't believe there is a shortage of good administrators on the labour market in the UK.


Thank you.

Nobody said there were, BUT for the same reason that the best horticultural land in SE England has Heathrow rowing on it those good administrators may be doing other better paid roles.
Being a good administrator also means you can be good at other things, you can have a Marketing manager who is a great administrator or a logistics supervisor.

Being organised and methodical with a good grasp of spelling and grammar is not just a prerequisite for administration jobs but that is what you actually mean when you say "a good administrator".

There is a general skilled labour shortage in the UK, there are many roles that struggle to be filled as the people with the skills that companies want don't exist in their locality at the salary they can afford to pay and they don't have time to wait until people skill up/cross train.

A lot of that is because the salary people seek is tied to their perceived outgoings, a lot of that is property cost (mortgage, deposit saving and rent). 40+ year old homeowners with children can afford to work for far less than a 25 yo which is perverse position for a country to be in.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

40+ year old homeowners with children can afford to work for far less than a 25 yo which is perverse position for a country to be in.

Sadly, not a problem isolated to the UK either. In some cultures it is considered normal for all members of the same family to live together and pool their resources, it may be that we are headed that way too - whether we like it or not?

 

[japancool]

Sadly, not a problem isolated to the UK either. In some cultures it is considered normal for all members of the same family to live together and pool their resources, it may be that we are headed that way too - whether we like it or not?

What's wrong with that?

 

[Newchodge]

Hospitality relies on European and Other overseas staff that have great work ethic and want the work (many very happy just being able to visit the UK country and get work experience themselves and learn the language etc)

That's a huge problem both for the resorts and the cities to have to deal with

These guys just aren't there at the moment to employ

And won't be as they will not be able to get visas

 

[japancool]

And won't be as they will not be able to get visas

I still don't see why our unemployed young can't fill those roles.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

What's wrong with that?

In theory, nothing. It is traditional in the UK, however, to do the opposite and leave home at the first opportunity.

 

[IanSuth]

What's wrong with that?

Nothing if we had houses that would work that way.

In the 70's i was in a 3 bed semi with 3 brothers and a sister, but children sharing bedrooms and definitely inter sex sharing of bedrooms tends to be looked down on now. What kind of house do you think would be needed for a pair of grandparents, 2 sets of adult offspring and 3 grandchildren, that is 6 adults 3 children ?

 

[Darren_Ssc]

I still don't see why our unemployed young can't fill those roles.

A lot of hospitality jobs and other similar low skilled roles used to attract students, people looking for short term casual work and so on. So, traditionally, these were low paid, low status jobs. Freedom of movement allowed some businesses to exploit this by expanding rapidly in the expectation that they could always tap into a pool of people willing to work for low pay and accept very poor conditions. Jamie Oliver, I'm looking at you!

Minimum wage legislation and Brexit have re-shaped this landscape somewhat. Our unemployed young will be taking-up the slack but there will be far less of these so-called jobs available in the future.

 

[IanSuth]

I still don't see why our unemployed young can't fill those roles.

Those NEETs (Not in Education, Employment or training) youngsters are now all over 18, 50% of them are persuaded to go to uni and so other than part time work around studies (which restricts their hours) they are then graduating with £50k+ of debt ( 3x9k tuition Loan and up to £3x12.5k of maintenance loan just in .gov debt) and are thus looking to service it., if they dont start paying it back the country has other issues to worry about

Those under 18 even if they want to work will find it hard, my daughter now 19 spent 2 months trawling around all the local establishments looking for bar or catering work, nobody wanted her until she was 18 due to the restrictions on hours of work and over alcohol serving. She was eventually taken on in a local Stonegate pub the week after her 18th on the grounds of being a 6'2" leggy blond who would drive sales (luckily she also plays rugby and rides a motorbike so can handle any unwanted attention)

Schools are measured on the number of students who go into FE, it does not matter if a student might be better going into work, they will try and get them to apply to uni if they think there is a hope of them getting a place.

The country is overdue a massive reset of how we think about employment, pay, education and young persons debt levels

 

[Mr D]

Hospitality relies on European and Other overseas staff that have great work ethic and want the work (many very happy just being able to visit the UK country and get work experience themselves and learn the language etc)

That's a huge problem both for the resorts and the cities to have to deal with

These guys just aren't there at the moment to employ

Strangely trouble recruiting while we apparently have a lot of businesses shut in the past several months.
You'd almost think the unemployment situation was not what the media seem to present to everyone.

 

[IanSuth]

Strangely trouble recruiting while we apparently have a lot of businesses shut in the past several months.
You'd almost think the unemployment situation was not what the media seem to present to everyone.

It is a mismatch of those available vs the roles available

 

[Mr D]

Those NEETs (Not in Education, Employment or training) youngsters are now all over 18, 50% of them are persuaded to go to uni and so other than part time work around studies (which restricts their hours) they are then graduating with £50k+ of debt ( 3x9k tuition Loan and up to £3x12.5k of maintenance loan just in .gov debt) and are thus looking to service it., if they dont start paying it back the country has other issues to worry about

Those under 18 even if they want to work will find it hard, my daughter now 19 spent 2 months trawling around all the local establishments looking for bar or catering work, nobody wanted her until she was 18 due to the restrictions on hours of work and over alcohol serving. She was eventually taken on in a local Stonegate pub the week after her 18th on the grounds of being a 6'2" leggy blond who would drive sales (luckily she also plays rugby and rides a motorbike so can handle any unwanted attention)

Schools are measured on the number of students who go into FE, it does not matter if a student might be better going into work, they will try and get them to apply to uni if they think there is a hope of them getting a place.

The country is overdue a massive reset of how we think about employment, pay, education and young persons debt levels

Sorry, what other issues does the country have to worry about if students don't start repaying their debt?
Is this some new thing that hasn't been encountered in the almost 2 decades of student debt? Some new problem that did not exist for the class of 2019, 2018, 2017 etc?

Some students don't need to go to uni. But its a heck of a lot easier at age 18 than later when you have childcare, mortgage, commitments.
While there has been a massive increase in numbers attending uni, so employers are more and more looking for at least a degree before taking someone on. Would schools be better off telling more young people to wait till later life?
One of my friends at school went to uni at age 18, he graduated with a grand in debt (common in those days from overdraft and credit card debt). That was it. I graduated 18 years after him with £28k in student loans that have never been paid off. Was it better to attend uni at 18 or wait until it is far more expensive and far harder to cope?

 

[japancool]

Nothing if we had houses that would work that way.

In the 70's i was in a 3 bed semi with 3 brothers and a sister, but children sharing bedrooms and definitely inter sex sharing of bedrooms tends to be looked down on now. What kind of house do you think would be needed for a pair of grandparents, 2 sets of adult offspring and 3 grandchildren, that is 6 adults 3 children ?

A big one. And with several incomes available, it should be possible.

If the demand for such houses are there, they'll be built (probably).

 

[Mr D]

It is a mismatch of those available vs the roles available

What is the mismatch? The fact they are unemployed and need a job? Or the fact they cannot learn the skills? Or the hours? Or the location?

 

[Newchodge]

I still don't see why our unemployed young can't fill those roles.

Neither do I, but I was answering the point about the jobs having been filled by European and other overseas staff.

 

[Mr D]

A big one. And with several incomes available, it should be possible.

If the demand for such houses are there, they'll be built (probably).

The demand is there. Affordability is not always worth it.

 

[japancool]

Those NEETs (Not in Education, Employment or training) youngsters are now all over 18, 50% of them are persuaded to go to uni and so other than part time work around studies (which restricts their hours) they are then graduating with £50k+ of debt ( 3x9k tuition Loan and up to £3x12.5k of maintenance loan just in .gov debt) and are thus looking to service it., if they dont start paying it back the country has other issues to worry about

Student loans are going to blow up. A large proportion of those loans will never be paid back. It's already hitting a crisis point in the US.

Those under 18 even if they want to work will find it hard, my daughter now 19 spent 2 months trawling around all the local establishments looking for bar or catering work, nobody wanted her until she was 18 due to the restrictions on hours of work and over alcohol serving. She was eventually taken on in a local Stonegate pub the week after her 18th on the grounds of being a 6'2" leggy blond who would drive sales (luckily she also plays rugby and rides a motorbike so can handle any unwanted attention)

But that restriction applies whether the person is a UK national or otherwise, so the locals aren't disadvantaged in that respect.

Schools are measured on the number of students who go into FE, it does not matter if a student might be better going into work, they will try and get them to apply to uni if they think there is a hope of them getting a place.

That's a failing of our system. But there are all these vocational courses now that they could do.

The country is overdue a massive reset of how we think about employment, pay, education and young persons debt levels

Agreed.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

I still don't see why our unemployed young can't fill those roles.

Can't? WON'T more like

benefits are too good a ride if they can get on pip. Amazing how many suddenly have fibromyalgia these days

 

[Financial-Modeller]

Good admin people can be hard to find, because good ones become valued office managers and don't move, whilst those available tend to be in admin because they're not qualified to do much else, and may be unreliable etc, and constantly moving.

As @AstEver suggests, if you're getting 100 applicants that do not meet your criteria, you may need to change your approach, your messaging and/or the role profile.

It sounds like you want your social media looked after, and some basic admin. Might this be better served by more than one person on a part-time basis? Perhaps with the media side handled by a freelancer or agency?

You value language skills @hargreaves56 , and it seems that those for whom English is not their first language often have a far better understanding of English than those for whom it is.

 

[IanSuth]

Can't? WON'T more like

benefits are too good a ride if they can get on pip. Amazing how many suddenly have fibromyalgia these days

Benefits are not as easy to get as people think - definitely not as a new claimant

 

[Darren_Ssc]

benefits are too good a ride if they can get on pip.

As a part-time carer for someone on PIP, this kind of talk is best suited to the golf club.

 

[IanSuth]

Student loans are going to blow up. A large proportion of those loans will never be paid back. It's already hitting a crisis point in the US.

It has already led to internal westminster arguments over how the gov accounts for it her, treasury wanted to class as an asset (loans due to government) someone else wanted them as a liability due to % that will never be repaid

But that restriction applies whether the person is a UK national or otherwise, so the locals aren't disadvantaged in that respect.

Only in terms of the fact that if you are on a working holiday you are usually willing to work for less than if it is a job - the employment is incidental to the trip to reduce cost not a way of saving for a deposit/car etc

That's a failing of our system. But there are all these vocational courses now that they could do.

There are but those are not counted the same way in school success tables so the schools are very good at not mentioning those routes into work - I sit/sat on a local taskforce which includes people from the jobcentre+, various careers type organisations and also the FE/vocational providers, one of the biggest issues is that academies still have to provide careers guidance but can do it themselves, which in a bid to save money they do, they have teachers giving kids advise on what is out there, even those those teachers are all from a uni/degree background and not with any experience of vocational pathways

Agreed.

 

[Mr D]

Good admin people can be hard to find, because good ones become valued office managers and don't move, whilst those available tend to be in admin because they're not qualified to do much else, and may be unreliable etc, and constantly moving.

As @AstEver suggests, if you're getting 100 applicants that do not meet your criteria, you may need to change your approach, your messaging and/or the role profile.

It sounds like you want your social media looked after, and some basic admin. Might this be better served by more than one person on a part-time basis? Perhaps with the media side handled by a freelancer or agency?

You value language skills @hargreaves56 , and it seems that those for whom English is not their first language often have a far better understanding of English than those for whom it is.

Lol - some of us go into admin because its indoor work with usually no heavy lifting.
And covers a massive range of careers and routes into management.

Some of us can be pretty reliable, effectively running the place. Directors get to make policy, knowing where the photcopier paper is stored or how to order toner is down to admin staff. May well end up in a small office with one person who is critical in the admin - and stays there many years.
As I'm sure @The Byre can tell us about his office manager lady.

 

[Mr D]

Can't? WON'T more like

benefits are too good a ride if they can get on pip. Amazing how many suddenly have fibromyalgia these days

And some people do develop Fibro. What should they do? Not claim benefits?
People have been fiddling the benefits system for years. Various methods of finding fraud including people reporting the smug git who crows about the extra money they have coming in / the new car every 3 years for free while also able to have an active life / take part in sports etc.

 

[japancool]

Can't? WON'T more like

benefits are too good a ride if they can get on pip. Amazing how many suddenly have fibromyalgia these days

Hey, I'm on PIP. But then again, I have kidney failure and only one foot, so I have a good case!