Action Against Banks

mindatrisk

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Aug 8, 2007
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Most of us are well aware of the problems caused by the banks, bankers and banking system, and most of us have experienced the consequences to our own lives and communities. Some more than others. As things stand, most human beings struggle just to survive and to feed and shelter their families. This generally means that time and energy that could be spent in personal development, spiritual growth, community development is spent on survival. Is this necessary? Of course not. We now have the means, the resources and the will to have material security for everyone. The problem seems to be with our financial structures and the people who run them.

I want to take action. I want to start a civil disobedience campaign to raise awareness and provoke discussion about the banks with a view to enforcing real change. I want to create a platform where this horrendous financial corruption can be exposed, dissected and ended forever.

Here is an outline of what I have in mind and in development, let me know what you think:

I will publicly go overdrawn on my bank overdraft limit and then refuse - publicly - to pay the charges.

By 'publicly' I mean through social media. For example, I will set up a Facebook page that outlines my intentions, get as many followers as possible (hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, given the subject matter) and then openly go over my overdraft limit and openly refuse to pay the charges.

That this be done so publicly is vital, as it forces the bank to push for action against me so as to discourage others doing the same if, for example, they simply ignored my account or wrote it off. However, the flip-side for the banks is that in pushing for action against me more publicity arises. In other words, we would have them caught between a rock and a hard place.

It would be vital that I push for and receive a prison sentence. Why? Because this publicly strips the banks of their power. If someone shows they are quite willing to go to prison then what threat do the banks have left? This move disempowers them publicly. It shows that I / we are not afraid of them, and that I / we are willing to sacrifice our own freedom for the cause. Gandhi and MLK both succeeded for this exact same reason. It also makes a bit of a martyr of the campaigner (in this case me) which engenders public sympathy and attention.

The act of civil disobedience - in this case, going overdrawn and refusing to pay the charges - is very important. It must be a simple act that most people can repeat. The act itself is minor, but the power is in the potential for repeat action. How can you lock up 100,000 people all committing the same 'crime'? And how could you lock up some but not others when everyone is doing it publicly? You can't, and so it is at this point where your campaign gains leverage, i.e. we can begin to push forward our agenda. However, it must be made clear that any campaigner must be willing to accept any legal punishment. We are breaking the law, and as such we should be willing to accept our punishment. But this is good, and only serves to highlight the injustices prevailing in the situation.

The hope is that in time we can transform our financial institutes and create societies where we are free and able to develop ourselves, our communities, and our planet in beautiful, creative, inspired ways, free from the shackles of material struggle.

So, what does everyone think so far?
 
I will publicly go overdrawn on my bank overdraft limit and then refuse - publicly - to pay the charges.

How exactly are you planning on refusing to pay the charges - they will automatically be taken from the account so you have no mechanism to stop them from being paid.

That, of course, leads you further overdrawn so more charges. The bank then remove your overdraft facility making it impossible for you to get any money out until you are back in credit...

John
 
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mindatrisk

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Aug 8, 2007
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Nothing will change.Your futile efforts will be written off,as your gesture will be seen for the publicity seeking exercise that it is.
All the protests in London and New York? no-one talks about those anymore.
Apathy will overcome.

I think it just depends on your perspective. Some changes simply occur slowly. We are trying to uproot and unstitch institutions and ideas that have been carefully and skilfully woven into our society over many generations, and they're not going to fall easily. It was the same with slavery, civil rights, death penalty, torture... lots of massive issues. The reality is that as well instituted as all of these things were, they all came tumbling down because they were recognised to be morally wrong - it took time, yes, but they came down, and so too will the banks. But it requires patience and perseverance. The Occupy movement wasn't a failure by any means. It put a whole load of new ideas into minds that had never thought that way before. It empowered people to take action. It mobilised thousands of people. These are encouraging signs. I am living proof that apathy has not overcome. We just have to be patient. The war will not be won in one battle.
 
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mindatrisk

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Aug 8, 2007
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How exactly are you planning on refusing to pay the charges - they will automatically be taken from the account so you have no mechanism to stop them from being paid.

That, of course, leads you further overdrawn so more charges. The bank then remove your overdraft facility making it impossible for you to get any money out until you are back in credit...

John

I will go 1p over my £1500 overdraft limit which will incur an £8 and then i'll simply stop putting funds into the account. I'll continue to be charged and continue to refuse to pay the charges for the reasons outlined above. This will all be done publicly so as to force the bank to take action. After all, can they afford to let thousands (hopefully more) see someone defy them and gain encouragement to do the same? Nope! They will need to make a public statement.
 
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I commend your willingness but have you really thought this one through.

The banks will not bring charges against you, they will simply set the dogs on you (bailiffs) and then what are you going to do? I assume you don't have a home to lose?

and that's exactly were governments and institutions want us - this is what Thatcher wanted! de-politicise the working man, get them working like slaves to put a roof over the heads, they won't dare rise up against the establishment. Osbournes dangling a carrot to get even more of us hooked - one day, when your too old to enjoy it, you too might be rich. None of this was an accident, it's all carefully designed to manipulate us into slavery and conformity.

Give a man a gun, he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, he can rob the world (and get away with it)
 
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mindatrisk

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Aug 8, 2007
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and that's exactly were governments and institutions want us - this is what Thatcher wanted! de-politicise the working man, get them working like slaves to put a roof over the heads, they won't dare rise up against the establishment. Osbournes dangling a carrot to get even more of us hooked - one day, when your too old to enjoy it, you too might be rich. None of this was an accident, it's all carefully designed to manipulate us into slavery and conformity.

Give a man a gun, he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, he can rob the world (and get away with it)

And here you have articulated well the exact reasons for such action. Unfortunately for the system, there will always be people like me who, contrary and rebellious in nature, are not afraid of their laws nor will buckle before their supposed power. And when one rises up without fear then many more are given permission to liberate themselves too. I want to strip away the fear of the banks. I want to empower the public to stand up against them. I can only do this through example. And i'm more than up to the task.
 
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mindatrisk

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Aug 8, 2007
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I commend your willingness but have you really thought this one through.

The banks will not bring charges against you, they will simply set the dogs on you (bailiffs) and then what are you going to do? I assume you don't have a home to lose?

I'm thinking it through.

Can the bank simply set the bailiffs on me when there are hundreds of thousands of followers watching the action unfold? That's not going to discourage anyone. They'll need to make a stand and a statement against my actions. Conversely, that will bring more attention and sympathy to the campaign. Such is the beauty of civil disobedience.
 
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I'm thinking it through.

Can the bank simply set the bailiffs on me when there are hundreds of thousands of followers watching the action unfold? That's not going to discourage anyone. They'll need to make a stand and a statement against my actions. Conversely, that will bring more attention and sympathy to the campaign. Such is the beauty of civil disobedience.

Millions of us have been watching this happening for years but fair enough if you can set the wheels in motion.
Removing the fear factor though, may prove to be the biggest hurdle.

facebook link?
 
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mindatrisk

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Aug 8, 2007
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Millions of us have been watching this happening for years but fair enough if you can set the wheels in motion.
Removing the fear factor though, may prove to be the biggest hurdle.

facebook link?

No Facebook page yet! I'm still thinking this through.

Watching generally doesn't set the wheels in motion. Action does. I am willing to take action because I have no fear of the consequences, and I hope that when others see that I have no fear that they too will realise that they have nothing to fear.
 
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Jeff FV

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Jan 10, 2009
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... but you have £1,500 of someone else's money. Is it not reasonable for someone to pursue you for money you owe? If your campaign does gain any traction (which i very much doubt) then how are you going to answer Paxman on that one?

I think you have made the mistake of laying the blame with retail banking which, whilst not in the Mother Teresa league of philanthropy, is not actually that bad. Your bank has allowed you to borrow £1,500 - albeit at a price - but you are effectively complaining about fees the bank charges you for borrowing (without asking) more than that amount. Given that Wonga will charge you over £6 to borrow £1 for a day, the retail banks don't look quite so bad. Given some slick PR, the banks will crush your campaign in an instant.

I applaud your desire to 'do something', however in this instance I suggest you re-visit your ideas and plans, they will not work.

J

p.s. never thought I'd find myself sat here defending "The Banks"!
 
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mindatrisk

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Aug 8, 2007
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... but you have £1,500 of someone else's money. Is it not reasonable for someone to pursue you for money you owe? If your campaign does gain any traction (which i very much doubt) then how are you going to answer Paxman on that one?

I think you have made the mistake of laying the blame with retail banking which, whilst not in the Mother Teresa league of philanthropy, is not actually that bad. Your bank has allowed you to borrow £1,500 - albeit at a price - but you are effectively complaining about fees the bank charges you for borrowing (without asking) more than that amount. Given that Wonga will charge you over £6 to borrow £1 for a day, the retail banks don't look quite so bad. Given some slick PR, the banks will crush your campaign in an instant.

I applaud your desire to 'do something', however in this instance I suggest you re-visit your ideas and plans, they will not work.

J

p.s. never thought I'd find myself sat here defending "The Banks"!

Good points! Thank you for contributing.

The point of civil disobedience is to break the law to highlight an injustice. The role of the civil disobeyer is not just to break that law to highlight an injustice, but to accept their due punishment willingly. So yes, I will have done 'wrong' and i'll accept my punishment, but i've done the 'wrong' to highlight a greater 'wrong'. This is civil disobedience. I'm not complaining about the bank at all. I have no personal problems with my bank. I do have a social and humanitarian problem with the banks though, and that is what I wish to highlight.
 
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Nuno

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Do you really think you are going to generate more publicity than the whole 'Occupy' phenomenon did? And they didn't change the face of banking one iota.

Instead of these grandiose dreams of been the Ghandi or MLK of overdraft fees why not volunteer to help at your local credit union?

I know mine is crying out for more volunteers to help guide people away from feeling hopeless about their debt, and towards getting out of debt.

You don't have to be a specialist. People I know go as reassurance friends when the debtor sees a (free) accountant, or even just look after kids whilst the person tries to sort themselves out with help from the credit union. And when crises occur, as they do, they provide a shoulder and someone to talk to for people who are frightened and alone.

You won't be a hero but you will make a real difference to people who desperately need it.
 
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mindatrisk

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Aug 8, 2007
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Do you really think you are going to generate more publicity than the whole 'Occupy' phenomenon did? And they didn't change the face of banking one iota.

Instead of these grandiose dreams of been the Ghandi or MLK of overdraft fees why not volunteer to help at your local credit union?

I know mine is crying out for more volunteers to help guide people away from feeling hopeless about their debt, and towards getting out of debt.

You don't have to be a specialist. People I know go as reassurance friends when the debtor sees a (free) accountant, or even just look after kids whilst the person tries to sort themselves out with help from the credit union. And when crises occur, as they do, they provide a shoulder and someone to talk to for people who are frightened and alone.

You won't be a hero but you will make a real difference to people who desperately need it.

The thing is, I am capable and willing to take this action. I am capable and willing to be as much of a servant of society as Gandhi was. Your advice is good, but it's good for those who wish to help at that level. I want to help as many as possible, and I am capable of doing so, so why not do it? It is the same in the business world. Some want to reach the top and believe they will do, whereas others are happy to put in a shift, take the pay and remain at that level. I want to be a CEO, and I will be!
 
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The thing is, I am capable and willing to take this action. I am capable and willing to be as much of a servant of society as Gandhi was. Your advice is good, but it's good for those who wish to help at that level. I want to help as many as possible, and I am capable of doing so, so why not do it? It is the same in the business world. Some want to reach the top and believe they will do, whereas others are happy to put in a shift, take the pay and remain at that level. I want to be a CEO, and I will be!

Then is that because of your ego?
 
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mindatrisk

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Aug 8, 2007
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Then is that because of your ego?

Nope, I want to help as many people as possible, and if that means being a prominent figure or a leader then I will do it - not for me, but for the benefit of others. Of course, distinguishing between the two when they are just words on a screen can be difficult, but give me the benefit of the doubt, be patient, and judge me on my actions. :)
 
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mindatrisk

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Aug 8, 2007
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Afraid nothing will change untill the masses realise what mugs they are to participate in the system.

This is true, and the action I am taking is intended to create a platform for increased awareness and education. Change will only occur when the public is on board, and that means they must be informed and understanding of how the financial institutes operate.
 
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B

Beachcomber

I'm afraid the op is a little naive and uninformed.

If you go overdrawn you would be liable for charges under the agreement that you have signed when opening the account / accepting the overdraft facillity.

They will be more than entitled to come after you for charges - going all the way to County Court if necessary.

So, lets look at these evil banks.

Those nasty, greedy institutions who:

- Provide you with a free bank account (unless you choose an upgraded one with benifits)
An account where you can safely keep your money, receive payments, receive wages etc.

- A free cheque book

- A free debit card enabling you to make purchases in most shops without the need to make sure you have cash on you.

- A free Direct Debit system enabling you to pay all of your regular bills automatically

- A free Standing order facility allowing you to make one off / irregular / personal payments

- Free online banking

- Free fully itemised statements

- Free overdraft facillity (most have a limit free of charges or interest)

- Free branch banking on almost every high street where you can get free advice about accounts, mortgages, insurances, investments, shares, savings schemes etc.

- Free telephone banking

- Free fraud protection including a dedicated department who can resolve any issues you may have

....to name just the main facilities you enjoy for FREE. What other industry offers this many free seervices that have such an impact on your day to day life?

Try going a month without these facilities and see how you get on.


Sure - the investment arms of many banks (need to differentiate between retail and investment banking) did play casino's with lots of our money and made a dirty great mess.

BUT - it was all done in plain view, with the full knowledge of the government and media and we all allowed it to happen while the gambling was paying off - but as soon as they put it all on red and it came up black everyone pretended to be shocked, all clamoured to get on telly to whinge and moan about how very immoral it all is - all the time the general (uninformed) public lap it all up like sheep. Thy believe the opinions handed to them by the medai totally unaware of all the vested interests, back-hand deals and corruption that are used to make sure you never have acces to the whole truth.


What you should be doing is coming up with a way to attack the power of major corperations and the media to control our supposed democratic government. If that doesn't change, nothing else will.
 
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I'm afraid the op is a little naive and uninformed.

If you go overdrawn you would be liable for charges under the agreement that you have signed when opening the account / accepting the overdraft facillity.

They will be more than entitled to come after you for charges - going all the way to County Court if necessary.

So, lets look at these evil banks.

Those nasty, greedy institutions who:

- Provide you with a free bank account (unless you choose an upgraded one with benifits)
An account where you can safely keep your money, receive payments, receive wages etc.

- A free cheque book

- A free debit card enabling you to make purchases in most shops without the need to make sure you have cash on you.

- A free Direct Debit system enabling you to pay all of your regular bills automatically

- A free Standing order facility allowing you to make one off / irregular / personal payments

- Free online banking

- Free fully itemised statements

- Free overdraft facillity (most have a limit free of charges or interest)

- Free branch banking on almost every high street where you can get free advice about accounts, mortgages, insurances, investments, shares, savings schemes etc.

- Free telephone banking

- Free fraud protection including a dedicated department who can resolve any issues you may have

....to name just the main facilities you enjoy for FREE. What other industry offers this many free seervices that have such an impact on your day to day life?

Try going a month without these facilities and see how you get on.


Sure - the investment arms of many banks (need to differentiate between retail and investment banking) did play casino's with lots of our money and made a dirty great mess.

BUT - it was all done in plain view, with the full knowledge of the government and media and we all allowed it to happen while the gambling was paying off - but as soon as they put it all on red and it came up black everyone pretended to be shocked, all clamoured to get on telly to whinge and moan about how very immoral it all is - all the time the general (uninformed) public lap it all up like sheep. Thy believe the opinions handed to them by the medai totally unaware of all the vested interests, back-hand deals and corruption that are used to make sure you never have acces to the whole truth.


What you should be doing is coming up with a way to attack the power of major corperations and the media to control our supposed democratic government. If that doesn't change, nothing else will.

what utter rubbish the only free thing I have ever had from financial services was a brolly and that was plastered in advertising.

The only way the banks can recover is to charge the population more.

So not only has the great british public lost billions bailing them out,but they will have to pay more for their services.

loose loose for TGBP.:)
 
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mindatrisk

Free Member
Aug 8, 2007
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I'm afraid the op is a little naive and uninformed.

If you go overdrawn you would be liable for charges under the agreement that you have signed when opening the account / accepting the overdraft facillity.

They will be more than entitled to come after you for charges - going all the way to County Court if necessary.

This is what I want! Was that not clear? I'm talking about civil disobedience.

So, lets look at these evil banks.

Those nasty, greedy institutions who:

- Provide you with a free bank account (unless you choose an upgraded one with benifits)
An account where you can safely keep your money, receive payments, receive wages etc.

- A free cheque book

- A free debit card enabling you to make purchases in most shops without the need to make sure you have cash on you.

- A free Direct Debit system enabling you to pay all of your regular bills automatically

- A free Standing order facility allowing you to make one off / irregular / personal payments

- Free online banking

- Free fully itemised statements

- Free overdraft facillity (most have a limit free of charges or interest)

- Free branch banking on almost every high street where you can get free advice about accounts, mortgages, insurances, investments, shares, savings schemes etc.

- Free telephone banking

- Free fraud protection including a dedicated department who can resolve any issues you may have

....to name just the main facilities you enjoy for FREE. What other industry offers this many free seervices that have such an impact on your day to day life?

Try going a month without these facilities and see how you get on.

And dropping bombs on other countries turns the soil saving the farmers a job. Valiant effort and all, but i'm not sure the above balances out the other stuff.
 
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B

Beachcomber

what utter rubbish the only free thing I have ever had from financial services was a brolly and that was plastered in advertising.

Really? How much does your bank charge you for direct debits? To use cash machines 24/7? For your itemised statements etc, etc, etc.

Rubbish, or an inconvenient truth?


And dropping bombs on other countries turns the soil saving the farmers a job. Valiant effort and all, but i'm not sure the above balances out the other stuff.

Oh dear, you are confused aren't you.
Not a fan of infowars.com are we? :D
 
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owas

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Jan 3, 2010
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As much as I hate the whole banking system and and applaud anyone who takes on the banks, surely its common sense that when you open a bank account or take out a credit card, you and the bank are entering a contract. This contract ensures that your money is kept safe by the bank and in return if your actions occur cost to the bank, then you are penalized for this.
In the past these charges have been excessive, in my student days I was charged almost £100 in overdraft fees in one go. But I am sure as of around 2010 the banks are only allowed to charge actual cost incurred, and you can dispute this and in some cases get your money back.
Would it not be more beneficial/worthy to use your time helping/advising those who have been charged on how they can manage their money better, or claim back from the bank?
 
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mindatrisk

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Aug 8, 2007
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As much as I hate the whole banking system and and applaud anyone who takes on the banks, surely its common sense that when you open a bank account or take out a credit card, you and the bank are entering a contract. This contract ensures that your money is kept safe by the bank and in return if your actions occur cost to the bank, then you are penalized for this.
In the past these charges have been excessive, in my student days I was charged almost £100 in overdraft fees in one go. But I am sure as of around 2010 the banks are only allowed to charge actual cost incurred, and you can dispute this and in some cases get your money back.
Would it not be more beneficial/worthy to use your time helping/advising those who have been charged on how they can manage their money better, or claim back from the bank?

The point is that I will be purposefully breaking this contract as an act of civil disobedience. The act in and of itself is not important, what is important is the platform it can provide to raise awareness, as well the empowering effect it will have on the public, and the disempowering effect it will have on the banks.
 
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mindatrisk

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Aug 8, 2007
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I bank with Barclays, so that's essentially my money you're intending to steal.

Obviously, the fact that this makes me angry is my fault.

You have learnt! My efforts here have not been in vain. How wonderful.

Alas, you misunderstand how the banks work. Also, i'll be giving the money to charity. You'll be okay, don't worry.
 
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Subbynet

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Aug 1, 2005
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Yeah great plan, lets bring down the banks by bankrupting the system and returning to bartering chickens and eggs. Honestly, the stupidity of this plan is astounding and shows you don't have a clue how the financial system works. It can only be a wind up surely?

You think you're a trailblazer who will change the world by getting in debt? Have a word. To just pay back the existing debt each man, woman and child in this country already owes thousands of pounds - were talking £30,000-45,000 each easy.. You think adding another £1,500 is going to make a huge difference? You must be joking. It's a fraction of our current debt, and your actions only make things worse. The rich bankers won't feel a thing, they'll still be rich, and the public will be worse off than they are now.

Take the £1,500, blow it on beer and drugs, then put yourself all over the media. I'm in need of a good laugh.
 
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mindatrisk

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Aug 8, 2007
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Yeah great plan, lets bring down the banks by bankrupting the system and returning to bartering chickens and eggs. Honestly, the stupidity of this plan is astounding and shows you don't have a clue how the financial system works. It can only be a wind up surely?

You think you're a trailblazer who will change the world by getting in debt? Have a word. To just pay back the existing debt each man, woman and child in this country already owes thousands of pounds - were talking £30,000-45,000 each easy.. You think adding another £1,500 is going to make a huge difference? You must be joking. It's a fraction of our current debt, and your actions only make things worse. The rich bankers won't feel a thing, they'll still be rich, and the public will be worse off than they are now.

Take the £1,500, blow it on beer and drugs, then put yourself all over the media. I'm in need of a good laugh.

I don't think you have understood what i'm suggesting. If i've not explained myself properly then I apologise.

The power in an act of civil disobedience is not in the act itself but in its potential to be repeated en masse. My act alone is nothing, but my act supported by, say, 100,000 (a small example number given the international disgruntlement with banks) others is very, very powerful, and easily enough to gain sufficient leverage to accomplish our aims and objectives. Which, by the way, are not to 'bring down the banks', but to increase public awareness and education about the financial systems and to encourage a global discussion and, ultimately, vote on the future of the financial systems.
 
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mindatrisk

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Oh, I know I'll be ok. It's a fraction of my wealth, so I'm hardly going to starve. However, I'd quite like to choose how and when I give to charity, rather than have someone steal money to do it on my behalf.

No matter how you dress it up, you're a thief.

Indeed, I will be a thief, and as such will happily take my punishment.
 
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