Accountants - How to find good ones for cheap?

[Shauntan]

I'm barely getting by on my business and can't afford an expensive accountant. At the same time I can't manage the accounts myself. I want someone reliable.

How can I know if an accountant is good? What should I look out for? And what price can I expect? I hear they are pretty cheap for small businesses.

Any insights would be appreciated

 

[lumencreative]

Are you a limited company or a sole trader? That will be the main deciding factor.

It also depends what you're expecting/needing an accountant to do. We used to use an online accountant and all she did was ask us for our vat figures, etc, and submit the returns for us (which any decent accounts software can do), and we felt we needed someone we could sit down with and that'd check up on what we're reclaiming vat for, advise us on salaries, etc, so we went to a local accountant, and never looked back (the local accountant is 2 - 3 times the price of the online accountant but worth every penny.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Accounting is one of those industries where good is not cheap, and cheap is not good.
Suck it up and pay the extra for someone who, as mentioned above, can sit down with you and talk about what is going on. They may even be able to help you turn your (potentially failing) business around. They will also let you pay monthly.
Getting someone cheap who does the bare minimum leaves you open to the risk of missing something complex, through no fault of theirs or your own, and that can end up costing you more money than you've saved.
Like is said before, I can't stress enough that good is not cheap and cheap is not good generally when it comes to Accounting.

 

[AllUpHere]

If you generally write with the same style as the one used when you wrote the title of this thread, you may find it difficult getting any accountant at all to respond to your enquiry ('for cheap' or otherwise).

 

[MartinCivil]

A good accountant will be able to save you more in tax than their fees add up to. A cheap accountant will simply to the bare minimum and submit what you give them

There have been plenty of threads on here recently regarding this, costs will vary depending on the amount of work that is involved for them and how good your book keeping is. We carry out all our own book keeping and pay approx £1000 pa for our accountants.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

I'm barely getting by on my business and can't afford an expensive accountant. At the same time I can't manage the accounts myself. I want someone reliable.

How can I know if an accountant is good? What should I look out for? And what price can I expect? I hear they are pretty cheap for small businesses.

Any insights would be appreciated

A good start is to check what qualifications an accountant has, bear in mind any one can call themselves an accountant. Typically accountants who work with small businesses will be members of one of the Chartered accountancy bodies which include the ACCA and ICAEW.

Ask potential accountants what experience they have in addition to qualifications - do they have clients in the same industry or profession as you. Many professions have special accounting and tax requirements and as such some accountants will specialise in looking after certain clients.

Look on accountants websites and don't be afraid to ask what they charge if fees aren't shown on a website. Most accountants now work on a fixed fee basis but some still charge based on time engaged. Also ask what you can do to minimise the fees.

You may find online firms, such as mine, are cheaper than high street accountants as quite simply our overheads are less; we dont need to pay for fancy offices, or a receptionist etc.

 

[STDFR33]

Whilst anyone can hold themselves out to be an accountant, qualification is no guarantee to competence. The internet is a wonderful resource and you should quickly be able to see if a firm has been around for a good length of time, if there are any reviews etc.


Ensure that the accountants you speak to have adequate professional indemnity insurance. If they do mess up, at least you have something to fall back on – the professional bodies rarely get involved and tell you to escalate it through the firms complaints procedure.


I would start by looking for recommendations from family and friends.


You can help reduce your accountancy bill by maintaining accurate bookkeeping records. Any good accountant will be able to help you with a system, and give you help along the way.


If you agree to pay an accountant on an hourly basis, I highly recommend that you negotiate a cap on the fee. Otherwise you are essentially giving them a blank cheque and it will be an uphill battle to get them to budge on the fee. So where possible, get a fixed fee rather than pay hourly. It will save you lots of heartache.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

.....

Ensure that the accountants you speak to have adequate professional indemnity insurance. If they do mess up, at least you have something to fall back on
......

All professionally qualified accountants in practice have to hold adequate professional indemnity insurance, its a condition of membership which also includes undertaking regular updating of the skills and knowledge they gained when they qualified.

 

[STDFR33]

All professionally qualified accountants in practice have to hold adequate professional indemnity insurance, its a condition of membership which also includes undertaking regular updating of the skills and knowledge they gained when they qualified.

I'm well aware.

But there are accountants (and there are lots of them) that qualified but saw no benefit for their membership and resigned from their professional body. They are not bound by the rules of a professional body that they no longer belong to. Nor are the odd cowboys knocking about.

There are also those that are qualified and belong to a professional body, but do not follow the rules of their professional body. I've just been dealing with such a case.

I therefore think asking about insurance is a valid question to ask.

Accountancy is not a clear cut industry when looking for professional services.

 

[KAC]

There are professionally qualified accountants who are disciplined by their professional bodies because they are in practice without a practising certificate, PI insurance, a continuity alternate and who have not maintained their CPD.
The professional bodies only normally find out when there is a complaint about sloppy work

 

[ldjames]

Rather than trying to find a cheap accountant, I'd focus on what you can do yourself to keep the amount of time you need from them down. If your bookkeeping is perfect then you probably wouldn't need much of their time.

Saying that, I recalled all of the questions mine asked me the year before and produced worked calculations for him with near-perfect bookkeeping and my bill was still higher than last year

Good accountants do pay for themselves in general but if you're doing almost no volume then the same can't really be said.

There's a lady in a neighbouring office who does EOY accounts and certain other accountancy tasks as a hobby. She's an "accounting technician" or something along those lines. If you can afford a fully qualified accountant with insurance etc. then I would definitely do that but if you can't, happy to put you in touch.

 

[Shauntan]

Thanks for your responses guys. My business is quite simple. I work on upwork as a freelancer online. That's my sole source of income. I'm yet to register it. I don't even know whether I should register as a sole trader or ltd. company.

I've made roughly 9,000 GBP the last tax year.

Book-keeping is very easy, unless I'm missing something. All my revenue enters my bank account as "upwork". My only cost is a laptop.

Do I even need an accountant given the nature of my business? If I were to do it myself, what kind of trouble might I have for which I might need an accountant?

 

[Shauntan]

If you generally write with the same style as the one used when you wrote the title of this thread, you may find it difficult getting any accountant at all to respond to your enquiry ('for cheap' or otherwise).

Fair enough. How would you have phrased the same query for a forum like this?

 

[The Byre]

Do I even need an accountant given the nature of my business? If I were to do it myself, what kind of trouble might I have for which I might need an accountant?

You'll find out soon enough!

 

[STDFR33]

I'm yet to register it.

I've made roughly 9,000 GBP the last tax year.

I’d start to get a move on if I were you.

 

[Ian J]

I work on upwork as a freelancer online. That's my sole source of income. I'm yet to register it. I don't even know whether I should register as a sole trader or ltd. company.

I would suggest sole trader would be more cost effective until you are significantly larger but you should have already registered with HMRC by now

 

[Ian J]

A good accountant will be able to save you more in tax than their fees add up to. A cheap accountant will simply to the bare minimum and submit what you give them

I here that quote quite frequently but certainly in my own case I'm not sure that is true as I fail to see where any extra tax has been saved

 

[MartinCivil]

I here that quote quite frequently but certainly in my own case I'm not sure that is true as I fail to see where any extra tax has been saved

Maybe you need a new accountant?

I could pay my accountant twice as much as I do and still feel I was getting good value.

Obviously depends on each individual business and the size of tax bills we are talking about. Now that the OP has declared their income, this wont apply, self employed probably the right route to go.

 

[STDFR33]

I here that quote quite frequently but certainly in my own case I'm not sure that is true as I fail to see where any extra tax has been saved

Most of the time it's just b0ll0cks.

Tax will probably be saved. But it is exaggerated by some accountants.

I think the focus should be on compliance; doing things right and avoiding the risk of investigations and penalties.
There's a lot to be said for a easy nights' sleep.

 

[Ian J]

I think the focus should be on compliance; doing things right and avoiding the risk of investigations and penalties.
There's a lot to be said for a easy nights' sleep.

Now that I do agree with

 

[ffox]

You may find this useful - http://taxguide.co.uk/content/declaring-second-income

Fair enough. How would you have phrased the same query for a forum like this?

Two things wrong in your post header. The words 'cheap' and 'good'.
Search for 'cheap' and that's what you will get - search for 'good value' or 'cost effective' and you will get better results.

Good is relative. What may be good for you will rarely suit another.

Follow the above link, register for self assessment, fill in the online forms on the HMRC site and see what you are liable to pay in taxes and NI. Then go looking around the accountants for an improvement on that. You can't measure what you don't know.
your self assessment can be updated right up until the due date.

 

[Shauntan]

Business registered for self assessment as sole trader. Now HMRC is verifying details which should take a week.

How long does it typically take to complete self assessments? And what sort of hassles are there typically in the process?

 

[STDFR33]

How long does it typically take to complete self assessments

Completing the relevant sections on the tax return can take two minutes.


Arriving at the correct figures to complete the return can, and often is, significantly longer.

And what exactly is the hassle in the process?

You will need to maintain accurate records.


You need to be aware of what is allowable for tax and what isn’t. The profits in your accounts often differ from your taxable profits.


You must enter all sources of taxable income onto the return.

 

[The Byre]

We have an accountant in Germany. They are good and they are (compared to any UK accountant) very cheap. That is because there is a single tax code - a book you can buy that has all the tax laws. I have (an out-of-date) copy somewhere on a shelf. In Germany, there is a rule for everything and everything has a rule - and taxes are no exception. You may not like every rule, but at least they make sense and you know where to find each and every rule.

The UK is different.

The UK tax code is now some 10 million words, according to the accountancy body Icas and no single human being understands more than a small fraction of it. The 2015-16 edition of Tolley’s yellow and orange handbooks (the accountant's bible) comes in at a record 21,602 pages.

There are special rules for rented, leased and borrowed hairdressers' chairs. There are special rules for equestrian businesses. There are special rules for fuel-tax for heating a boat and they are very different to the rules for putting fuel into a tractor, which are different again to the rules governing fuel tax for a digger. And if you are in the creative industries, the number of exceptions, rules and other tax implications are staggering. It’s a hopeless, dreadful situation.

There are a whole series of tax rules that gives tax deductions to films deemed culturally British. Films that would like to claim this deduction have to register their production where it is rated through a mathematical culture test calculated as follows: Cultural content (up to 16 points). Cultural contribution (up to 4 points). Cultural location (up to 3 points). Culturally active people (up to 8 points).

Films must score at least 16 out of 31 points to get up to a 25 percent tax break. Here are some examples of film characteristics that qualify: film set in the UK (you score four points), film reflects a diverse British culture, British heritage or British creativity (you score four points) and original dialogue recorded mainly in English language (you score another four points).

By linking your film to other business activities, it is possible to make a movie and then show it to nobody and just throw the damn thing in the bin (or delete its files) and still make a profit!

Anyone trying to run a business without an accountant or five, is begging for trouble in the UK.

 

[TCK1]

We have an accountant in Germany. They are good and they are (compared to any UK accountant) very cheap. That is because there is a single tax code - a book you can buy that has all the tax laws. I have (an out-of-date) copy somewhere on a shelf. In Germany, there is a rule for everything and everything has a rule - and taxes are no exception. You may not like every rule, but at least they make sense and you know where to find each and every rule.

The UK is different.

The UK tax code is now some 10 million words, according to the accountancy body Icas and no single human being understands more than a small fraction of it. The 2015-16 edition of Tolley’s yellow and orange handbooks (the accountant's bible) comes in at a record 21,602 pages.

There are special rules for rented, leased and borrowed hairdressers' chairs. There are special rules for equestrian businesses. There are special rules for fuel-tax for heating a boat and they are very different to the rules for putting fuel into a tractor, which are different again to the rules governing fuel tax for a digger. And if you are in the creative industries, the number of exceptions, rules and other tax implications are staggering. It’s a hopeless, dreadful situation.

There are a whole series of tax rules that gives tax deductions to films deemed culturally British. Films that would like to claim this deduction have to register their production where it is rated through a mathematical culture test calculated as follows: Cultural content (up to 16 points). Cultural contribution (up to 4 points). Cultural location (up to 3 points). Culturally active people (up to 8 points).

Films must score at least 16 out of 31 points to get up to a 25 percent tax break. Here are some examples of film characteristics that qualify: film set in the UK (you score four points), film reflects a diverse British culture, British heritage or British creativity (you score four points) and original dialogue recorded mainly in English language (you score another four points).

By linking your film to other business activities, it is possible to make a movie and then show it to nobody and just throw the damn thing in the bin (or delete its files) and still make a profit!

Anyone trying to run a business without an accountant or five, is begging for trouble in the UK.

Wow. I was thinking about starting w/o an accountant, to save money but this has put the fear of god in me.
Off to look for a good accountant

 

[Scott@KarmaContent]

Anyone trying to run a business without an accountant or five, is begging for trouble in the UK.

Very true. When I started out, I thought I'd save money by doing without an accountant. Luckily I soon realised that I needed one. Yes they'll save you more money than you pay them but it's the peace of mind I find best, knowing that they'll do what's needed when it's needed to be done. I can get on with my business and other more fun stuff!

 

[jimfoxy]

Our accountant charges us about £1750 a year and the only pro-action or update information we get from them is a fear mongering letter (they remind me of the 1980s AIDS Don't Die of Ignorance adverts) every 6 months telling us that we should pay another £400 or so to them for 'insurance' for when HMRC investigates us. Interestingly I mentioned my distaste for these to him and we haven't received one in a while.

We shall ditch them when HMRC makes it inefficient for us not to adopt an online book keeping system due to MTD. Some of the newer age accountancy firms look interesting such as TAP; a comparative quote will reduce our accountancy bill by £500 and includes online book keeping software. As to how good they are, who knows, until you get into bed with them?

 

[Mr D]

Our accountant charges us about £1750 a year and the only pro-action or update information we get from them is a fear mongering letter (they remind me of the 1980s AIDS Don't Die of Ignorance adverts) every 6 months telling us that we should pay another £400 or so to them for 'insurance' for when HMRC investigates us. Interestingly I mentioned my distaste for these to him and we haven't received one in a while.

We shall ditch them when HMRC makes it inefficient for us not to adopt an online book keeping system due to MTD. Some of the newer age accountancy firms look interesting such as TAP; a comparative quote will reduce our accountancy bill by £500 and includes online book keeping software. As to how good they are, who knows, until you get into bed with them?

£1750?
That's quite a lot. Pretty sure there are good ones around who are cheaper. Though as in anything the devil is in the details - you may be getting service others are not choosing.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

£400 or so to them for 'insurance' for when HMRC investigates us

Join the FSB £172.50 in the first year I believe and you get Tax Protection Insurance together with a whole load of other benefits e.g legal protection scheme & employment law advice & Tribunal insurance.

It's one of the reasons my firm does not go down the route of trying to flog insurance to clients.

 

[jimfoxy]

With FSB already, thanks. That is why we can comfortably ignore fear mongering from our accountant.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

With FSB already, thanks. That is why we can comfortably ignore fear mongering from our accountant.

Oh fantastic ....... and free everyday business banking with the CO-OP!

 

[STDFR33]

Oh fantastic ....... and free everyday business banking with the CO-OP!

Free?

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

Yes free within limits for everyday banking. They even give you a £25 loyalty bonus back if you stick with them.

Would need another high street bank account open as well if you need anything more than everyday banking e.g international services.

 

[STDFR33]

Yes free within limits for everyday banking. They even give you a £25 loyalty bonus back if you stick with them.

Would need another high street bank account open as well if you need anything more than everyday banking e.g international services.

Join the FSB £172.50

 

[Mr D]

Probably gets a bit more from them than 'free' banking.

 

[jimfoxy]

We are still with the FSB almost purely because of the HMRC investigation cover. Unfortunately, the Co-op banking account has recently become unsuitable for us because they have withdrawn the facility to process foreign currency cheques.

 

[TCK1]

Evening guys, went off to look for a suitable accountant.
Found a few but want to know whats a reasonable price to pay?

Spoke to a good one (going off their reviews) but they're asking for nearly £200

• Annual accounts/Directors tax return/accounting software, tax planning, VAT return & tax fee protection & "unlimited" support = £187.5p/m (They're AAT approved & part of IFA, i believe.)
• ChartAccountancy is offering a similar package for £125p/m
• CheapAccounting is offer something similar for £70 (a lot of extra fees though)
• Called a few Brick & Mortars & they're all saying the same thing... Expensive

Naturally, i'm drawn to CheapAcounting but (with the help of this post & forum) i understand that cheap & good don't really mix. Especially when it comes to an accountant

This is worse than shopping w/ the missus... No offence

Am i missing something? Any pointers? Tips? Referrals?.. Anything!

Thanks