Accepting Paypal - Worth the hassle

[Clicky Leap]

Guys,

I'm thinking of implementing Paypal on one of the e-commerce sites that we control.

We currently use Sage Pay and that is fine but I'm looking into Paypal as an alternative method as quite a few customers see it as more convenient.

I want to hear from people and users who have implemented Paypal on their e-commerce site in addition to another payment source.

Please do not comment if you do not have an e-commerce site and just commenting generally as would like to hear from actual e-commerce owners whether they seen an increase in the conversion rate or just the same conversion but with users now using PP.

 

[ablative]

We only use PayPal as a last resort for customers who can't pay using a credit card and through our IMA (via PayPoint).

Basically PayPal is seen as

a) amateurish - it's not perceived as a "professional" way to collect money by people; it's for hobbyists

b) it's crap - their customer service is appalling and it's impossible to speak to anyone if there's a problem

You are better off getting an IMA and a 3rd party processor or even using something like Worldpay who process CCs on your behalf.

 

[JamieM]

We only use PayPal as a last resort for customers who can't pay using a credit card and through our IMA (via PayPoint).

Basically PayPal is seen as

a) amateurish - it's not perceived as a "professional" way to collect money by people; it's for hobbyists

b) it's crap - their customer service is appalling and it's impossible to speak to anyone if there's a problem

You are better off getting an IMA and a 3rd party processor or even using something like Worldpay who process CCs on your behalf.

I don't agree with any of that.

Customers like to use Paypal and they have 110m+ users. Our payments are approximately 65% via SagePay and 35% Paypal.

 

[ablative]

I don't agree with any of that.

Customers like to use Paypal and they have 110m+ users. Our payments are approximately 65% via SagePay and 35% Paypal.

Fair enough. We have 99% PayPoint cc payments, 1% PayPal. And for a good reason.

JamieM - have you ever managed to speak/email with a real person at PayPal?

 

[JamieM]

Fair enough. We have 99% PayPoint cc payments, 1% PayPal. And for a good reason.

JamieM - have you ever managed to speak/email with a real person at PayPal?

Yes. I have only needed to speak to them once and the guy was pretty helpful.

 

[ablative]

Yes. I have only needed to speak to them once and the guy was pretty helpful.

Excellent. Would you mind sending me his email & name so I can contact him. I've never managed to get that far! (I'm being serious by the way, I really need to speak to someone real there as oppose to their stupid auto-answer system which doesn't work!)

 

[JamieM]

Excellent. Would you mind sending me his email & name so I can contact him. I've never managed to get that far! (I'm being serious by the way, I really need to speak to someone real there as oppose to their stupid auto-answer system which doesn't work!)

Sorry I don't know his name or email.

 

[andygambles]

We only use PayPal as a last resort for customers who can't pay using a credit card and through our IMA (via PayPoint).

Basically PayPal is seen as

a) amateurish - it's not perceived as a "professional" way to collect money by people; it's for hobbyists

b) it's crap - their customer service is appalling and it's impossible to speak to anyone if there's a problem

You are better off getting an IMA and a 3rd party processor or even using something like Worldpay who process CCs on your behalf.

If given the choice customers will pay via PayPal as they know it gives them extra protection when purchasing. If I had two websites with the same item I wanted. I would buy from the one who accepted PayPal.

 

[andygambles]

Excellent. Would you mind sending me his email & name so I can contact him. I've never managed to get that far! (I'm being serious by the way, I really need to speak to someone real there as oppose to their stupid auto-answer system which doesn't work!)

Log in to PayPal click Contact Us. You get a phone number and an access code. Call this and the phone is answered in less than a minute by a person. Well that is my experience.

 

[SuffolkDesigns]

Log in to PayPal click Contact Us. You get a phone number and an access code. Call this and the phone is answered in less than a minute by a person. Well that is my experience.

Same here, they always been quick to answer and very helpful.

 

[TotallySport]

I agree with JamieM, Paypal is a good buyers choice, setup can be very simple, and as long as you follow the rules as a seller you'll have no problems.

Paypal can be a decision maker from a buyers point of view, I site that that doesn't have paypal means they have to move away from the computer and find a card and enter lots of details and get them right and pass 3D secure, a site with paypal can enter a username and password and all is done.

We have contact Paypal a few times by phone and have been very good to sort out the issue, although it was one that shouldn't have arrose, but we were happy with the outcome and the time it took to sort.

 

[ablative]

Log in to PayPal click Contact Us. You get a phone number and an access code. Call this and the phone is answered in less than a minute by a person. Well that is my experience.

And if one can't use the phone? Has anyone managed to get a useful email address out of them? :|

 

[Chris34]

I think you need to stop being an anti Paypal snob and look at the potential customers you are losing.

Paypal has vastly improved over the last few years from a sellers point of view and from a buyers point of view there are lots of big companies that accept Paypal as payment. Does this mean that these big companies are downgrading themselves to 'Amateur' status?




Chris.

 

[ablative]

I think you need to stop being an anti Paypal snob and look at the potential customers you are losing.

Paypal has vastly improved over the last few years from a sellers point of view and from a buyers point of view there are lots of big companies that accept Paypal as payment. Does this mean that these big companies are downgrading themselves to 'Amateur' status?

Chris.

Snob? Ha, I just want to talk to them. We have an account with limited access which we cannot talk to them about. No matter what, they will not let us contact them via email to talk about it.

Their customer service does, indeed, suck as witnessed by the number of anti-paypal sites out there.

If everything is fine with a company then all well and good. But the moment something goes wrong is when a company shows what it is really like. The moment there is a problem with PayPal they couldn't care less about their customers.

This translates into losses for businesses.

 

[andygambles]

Snob? Ha, I just want to talk to them. We have an account with limited access which we cannot talk to them about. No matter what, they will not let us contact them via email to talk about it.

Their customer service does, indeed, suck as witnessed by the number of anti-paypal sites out there.

If everything is fine with a company then all well and good. But the moment something goes wrong is when a company shows what it is really like. The moment there is a problem with PayPal they couldn't care less about their customers.

This translates into losses for businesses.

I've had a limited account before. when it is you just follow the process they ask you. Or click the Contact Us link and submit the contact form.

I've used the contact form before for general queries.

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/helpscr?cmd=_help&t=escalateTab

Just click Email Us. Always had a fairly timely response.

When a company has over 100m customers there are going to be problems. Complainers usually are the ones who shout loudest.

 

[ablative]

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/helpscr?cmd=_help&t=escalateTab

Just click Email Us. Always had a fairly timely response.

When a company has over 100m customers there are going to be problems. Complainers usually are the ones who shout loudest.

Ha ha, god help anyone who has a problem with them. So I use the link you suggested (thanks) and sent an email. Back comes an automated email of no help at all telling me I must telephone them.

But I can't use the telephone!

So what now? As I said before, if it all goes well PayPal might be fine but if something goes wrong they are crap at customer service.

 

[JamieM]

Ha ha, god help anyone who has a problem with them. So I use the link you suggested (thanks) and sent an email. Back comes an automated email of no help at all telling me I must telephone them.

But I can't use the telephone!

So what now? As I said before, if it all goes well PayPal might be fine but if something goes wrong they are crap at customer service.

Why can't you use the telephone?

 

[ablative]

Why can't you use the telephone?

Two reasons. First I like everything to be in writing. Second, my hearing is shot to pieces.

 

[JamieM]

Two reasons. First I like everything to be in writing. Second, my hearing is shot to pieces.

Isn't there something you can do to let someone speak on the phone on your behalf?

 

[ablative]

Isn't there something you can do to let someone speak on the phone on your behalf?

By the same argument if someone is in a wheelchair they should get someone else to go shopping for them I suppose.

Did you read the BF article in the newsletter (I think it was a couple of days ago) about customer service and brands? Essentially, the more you offer your customers the better. In our (small) business customers and enquirers can phone, email, use the online form and fax us. They can contact us via Facebook and Twitter as well and we're sorting out real-time messaging and Skype as well.

PayPal (and others) eschew most of these. Why? Because they can't be bothered about their customers really.

Plus, of course, phone calls can be forgotten. Don't tell me that it's cheaper and more efficient than emails; no, if PP screw up there's no paper trail leading back to them. You'll notice most financial institutions use phone calls as much as possible and it's clear to see why.

Or if you're blind you could get someone else to see for you.

 

[andygambles]

Ha ha, god help anyone who has a problem with them. So I use the link you suggested (thanks) and sent an email. Back comes an automated email of no help at all telling me I must telephone them.

But I can't use the telephone!

So what now? As I said before, if it all goes well PayPal might be fine but if something goes wrong they are crap at customer service.

So have you responded saying you are unable to use the telephone due to hearing problems?

 

[JamieM]

Personally my goal would be to resolve my problem rather than challenge Paypal's whole customer service model. If you want to do that, do it after you resolve your problem, although I suspect they can run their business how they see fit.

For the record, if a wheelchair user wants to buy something in a shop with no wheelchair access, then yes I think they should try and get someone to do it for them.

 

[ablative]

So have you responded saying you are unable to use the telephone due to hearing problems?

Yes. But this can't be done through the email channels because those emails aren't read, one receives just an automated reply.

Instead I made a complaint through that channel.

As I - and many others - have said, PayPal is fine until something goes wrong.

 

[andygambles]

Yes. But this can't be done through the email channels because those emails aren't read, one receives just an automated reply.

Instead I made a complaint through that channel.

As I - and many others - have said, PayPal is fine until something goes wrong.

Not sure that is accurate as I have previously replied via email and get a response. Does it specifically say you can not respond?

 

[ablative]

Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored, and you will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account and click Help in the top right corner of any PayPal page.

That's what I got. Perhaps they only bother to respond to certain types of queries sent through certain channels.

 

[Chris34]

Have you got a business account or a personal account?

 

[ablative]

Have you got a business account or a personal account?

Business.

(PS sorry to the OP for this thread going off on a tangent!)

 

[Ian Spielman]

Sorry to disagree, but paypal's extra protection only applies to ebay sales not to 3rd party websites.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using UK Business Forums

 

[Ian Spielman]

Its worth noting that paypal are also quite expensive...... 3.4% plus 20p for all transactions unless your turnover is 55k a month EVERY month, there are cheaper options around.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using UK Business Forums

 

[ITsoldUK]

We only use PayPal as a last resort for customers who can't pay using a credit card and through our IMA (via PayPoint).

Basically PayPal is seen as

a) amateurish - it's not perceived as a "professional" way to collect money by people; it's for hobbyists

b) it's crap - their customer service is appalling and it's impossible to speak to anyone if there's a problem

You are better off getting an IMA and a 3rd party processor or even using something like Worldpay who process CCs on your behalf.

A) wrong on so many levels...a lot of the big etailers now accept it.

B) You can please some of the people some of the time etc. I have NEVER had an issue with them since 2000!

Now here is my tc.

As a buyer I much prefer to use PP as I can keep my card details private and indeed it is one of the first things I look for. As a customer I want to be safe.

As a retailer...why would I not listen to my customers who invariably think like me? ...

 

[andygambles]

Sorry to disagree, but paypal's extra protection only applies to ebay sales not to 3rd party websites.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using UK Business Forums

Extra protection for who?

 

[ITsoldUK]

Sorry to disagree, but paypal's extra protection only applies to ebay sales not to 3rd party websites.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using UK Business Forums

Nope. Buyer protection applies to any website not just Ebay.

 

[FoneFactoryLtd]

We use both PayPal & SagePage -

PayPal in my view is a must - but PayPal can be so difficult at times, holding cash, locking accounts, not following protocol - but they can do all of this because they are not regulated. Even when you have delivered something, can prove it the customer still gets their cash back. Annoying.

We stopped taking sales and found our sales went down from a couple hundred a day to 130 ish.

I wouldn't accept it, unless we have to but it looks like we have to.

We also started accepting Nochex - works well.

 

[Ian Spielman]

Not as far as i understand. I wi however check up.on.that. The extra protection is a kind.of guarantee that if sale goes wrong.they will refund.money or at least ensure you get money back.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using UK Business Forums

 

[ITsoldUK]

Not as far as i understand. I wi however check up.on.that. The extra protection is a kind.of guarantee that if sale goes wrong.they will refund.money or at least ensure you get money back.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using UK Business Forums

It is not EXTRA PROTECTION at all.

Buyer and seller protection is standard practise for verified buyers and sellers as long as pp terms are adhered to and applies to any website.

 

[zherry]

yeh,we also use the paypal ,and it really conveniece and safe,easy to paid.

 

[jago25_98]

It's important to see things from the buyers point of view.

The advantage Paypal has is that you have one password - it's quicker to type.
The other thing is that if I give you my card details, this can technically be used for reoccuring payments and there's nothing I can do to dtop it even after cancelling the card. It's madness and it rarely happens but it can.

The clued up buyer also knows that Paypal tries to strong-arm them into (pretty much) carte-blanche and giving access to thier bank account.

You have to recognise paypal dominance. That 200-120 orders/month anecdote is useful.

I really don't like Paypal because I don't like the idea of seemingly having cash... and then finding that the cash isnb't available - be that through chargebacks, frozen accounts or taking funds back. The expense is another subject.

Is it possible to encourage another payment processor on ebay UK over paypal somehow? I want customers to be directed to my own payment processor (probably skrill or netteller for small turnovers), and then click an extra click to see Paypal. I know this is possible in the US because ebay was forced to in order to have fair competition but I think we still don't have this in the UK do we?

I hope I can make some savings as I find selling buy it now through ebay works out at >15% very generally. But getting customers to a website I find too difficult... SEO and this kind of thing is further than I'd like to go.


For my private account sales (selling home items) I would prefer to avoid Paypal on principle with ebay... but how?

 

[Lynne Baker]

Really interesting points of view here!
We're just having a new ecommerce website built which will be both retail and trade facing (behind a login).
It's not commonplace in our industry for trade customers to be able to pay with PayPal so we have so far told them no thanks, but for the retail side of things we might have to consider it.
What bugs me the most are the utterly punitive charges. Contrary to popular belief there's not a massive markup on beauty products and it will cut me to the quick to lose so much of it to PayPal.

Lynne, probably just needs to get overself!

 

[14Steve14]

On my wesite when I started I offered Paypal, Nochex, cheques and bank transfer. 90% of people use paypal.

To save a bit of money, mainly on Paypal charges I looked at using sagepay. It meant I could save hundreds of pounds a year just on charges. I happened to mention this in a newsletter, and the response I had back from customers was truely mindboggling. So many said they would not shop with us if we stopped using paypal as it is a secure method of payment. Sagepay is more secure from a customers point of view as it offers visa and mastercard secure. The customers could not see this as a benefit to them.

We did also get a few comments about how people had been treated by Paypal and that they never use them, so changing would be a good move.

 

[andygambles]

On my wesite when I started I offered Paypal, Nochex, cheques and bank transfer. 90% of people use paypal.

To save a bit of money, mainly on Paypal charges I looked at using sagepay. It meant I could save hundreds of pounds a year just on charges. I happened to mention this in a newsletter, and the response I had back from customers was truely mindboggling. So many said they would not shop with us if we stopped using paypal as it is a secure method of payment. Sagepay is more secure from a customers point of view as it offers visa and mastercard secure. The customers could not see this as a benefit to them.

We did also get a few comments about how people had been treated by Paypal and that they never use them, so changing would be a good move.

MasterCard Secured and Verified by Vida are not a security for customers they are more for the merchant benefit. The PayPal fees reduce quickly as you increase turnover.