Accepting debit/credit cards - please advise

[BenJacobs]

Hi all,

I need to set up an account for accepting debit and credit card payments. I have seen lots of recommendations on this site, but some of the posts are dated, so wanted an up-to-date verdict (might be some special offers floating around as well?)

We will need to accept both debit and credit cards - average transaction will be ~£500 and will be processing approximately £5,000 - £7,000 per month to begin with.

I have heard good things about Cardstream, Adyen, and Worldpay Zinc but am not biased towards these in any way - just put them out there in case anybody can vouch for them.

This is a start-up business, so would prefer a PAYG without the hefty long contracts or high fixed monthly payments if possible. Cardstream seem to be in the lead at the moment with £18 pcm, 350 free transactions per month then 9.9p per transaction thereafter.

Your thoughts/opinions would be massively appreciated.

Thank you
Ben

 

[japancool]

The price you're quoting for Cardstream would appear to just be for their payment gateway, and not for the merchant account as well.

Do you already have an internet merchant account? With the amount that you're putting through, that's where your biggest cost will be.

For example, if your merchant account provider charges you 20p per debit card transaction, you put through 10 x £500 debit card transactions, the additional cost on top of the gateway charges is just £2.

If they're charging you 1.5% per credit card transaction and you're putting through 10 x £500 credit card transactions, your additional cost is £75.

 

[BenJacobs]

I don't have a merchant account at the moment, no - do these Cardstream fees look like a good deal without factoring in merchant fees?

 

[japancool]

I don't have a merchant account at the moment, no - do these Cardstream fees look like a good deal without factoring in merchant fees?

They're much of a muchness with other gateways.

Worldpay charge £20 pcm with 350 transactions, 10p thereafter, Sagepay are £25 a month with 1000 transactions per quarter etc.

See my edited post above re merchant account gateways, because I suspect the charges raised by the account provider could be a lot more expensive than the gateway fee if you get the wrong deal.

 

[BenJacobs]

Thank you japancool.

This is where marrying the two up gets confusing for someone who hasn't done it before. It's shopping around one merchant vs. the other which seems complex! Places like FSB offer good rates (I think on both processing and merchant) as part of their joining fee. Just looking to see who people recommend for one or the other (or both if you personally have a very good deal?) to get a rough figure in my head as to what we will be paying per transaction based on £500

 

[japancool]

Thank you japancool.

This is where marrying the two up gets confusing for someone who hasn't done it before. It's shopping around one merchant vs. the other which seems complex! Places like FSB offer good rates (I think on both processing and merchant) as part of their joining fee. Just looking to see who people recommend for one or the other (or both if you personally have a very good deal?) to get a rough figure in my head as to what we will be paying per transaction based on £500

Usually, merchant account providers charge differently for debit cards vs credit cards. It's common to charge a fixed price per transaction for debit cards, perhaps 15-25p, and a % charge for credit cards, perhaps 1.5%-3%.

The exact charges will depend on how your business is risk assessed by the provider, which will depend on your business model, business sector, trading history etc. You can try getting quotes from www.cardswitcher.co.uk - this will give you quotes with various providers through different companies.

Note though - some providers offer a flat rate % "deal". For example, Barclaycard were offering a 1.6% flat rate processing charge for people who took their gateway and merchant account. These are a bad deal IMHO. In your case, that would cost you £112 a month, based on £7000 of transactions, and it needn't be that high.

 

[BenJacobs]

I did look at Barclaycard but as you rightly said, they seemed very expensive. Thank you for all of the great information, very helpful.

Have you had any experiences with any of the providers listed above? Adyen, Zinc, etc.?

 

[japancool]

I did look at Barclaycard but as you rightly said, they seemed very expensive. Thank you for all of the great information, very helpful.

Have you had any experiences with any of the providers listed above? Adyen, Zinc, etc.?

No, I'm afraid not. My merchant account is with Lloyds (which I got through cardswitcher) and I use Worldpay as my gateway.

My experience with Worldpay though is that their customer service leaves a lot to be desired. As long as you don't have to contact them, everything is fine, and I only really had to use their CS while I was getting things set up - but they sometimes took 3 days to respond to an e-mail query.

 

[BenJacobs]

Lloyds came up pretty well on the cardswitcher site for me too actually - surprised by that! Thank you again for your help japancool

 

[jdwebmanagement]

I would actually say that Paypal Pro is a decent way of accepting card transactions. Either that or Sagepay, those are the two that I would recommend and have used.

 

[BenJacobs]

Do you not find that Paypal is very expensive jd? Sagepay seem to do some good deals through FSB - will be calling them to find out more information this evening

 

[jdwebmanagement]

Hi Ben, yes paypal can be a bit expensive at 3.4% of transactions but I always found it very easy to work with so I guess that was worth the extra hit for me.

Sagepay are very good so calling will be worth it for sure

 

[AmazingGiftBoxes]

If you chose paypal than you need to remember that they are going to keep a chunk of your money as a deposit for days, weeks or even months.

Jerry

 

[BenJacobs]

Absolutely agree Jerry. To be honest, I wouldn't go with Paypal if they offered 100% cashback. Just not a company I like or trust. Had an experience of them randomly freezing an account for 90 days before releasing the funds - a law unto themselves.

What are your [collective] thoughts on a Streamline or Cardsave service?

 

[RedBobs]

Hi Ben, Streamline are the market leader but not the best imo!
I always think it's best to go for a one stop shop and get the gateway with the merchant all in one, such as elavon.
Real minefield though, esp if your product (furniture) is perceived as high risk

 

[BenJacobs]

Such a difficult decision to make because you hear so many negative views on so many of them - to be expected I guess. I agree with you RedBobs - a one stop shop would be nice. One of the reasons I am pulled towards something like Streamline (with the FSB discount) and/or Cardsave...

 

[japancool]

I always think it's best to go for a one stop shop and get the gateway with the merchant all in one, such as elavon.

I disagree with this.

As most gateways charge more or less the same price, get the best deal you can on a merchant account, because that's where most of your costs will come from, and then pick any gateway that your e-commerce software can handle, preferably one that it already has a plugin to integrate with.

Most gateway providers can handle most merchant accounts, especially if it's from one of the major banks, or from Streamline, Elevon, Cardsave etc. but it pays to double check first.

 

[BenJacobs]

Still watching this thread carefully - thank you all for your responses so far. Have had a couple of quotes, and have a couple more to come in, then I'll be making a final decision. The two things I'll be looking at are monthly tie-in's/contract and price-per-transaction (overall). I have a meeting with Streamline tomorrow. I'll keep you posted on who I go with when we've made our final decision. Everybody's input has been very helpful and appreciated.

 

[GraemeL]

Do you not find that Paypal is very expensive jd? Sagepay seem to do some good deals through FSB - will be calling them to find out more information this evening

We are FSB members. The deal gives access to both Worldpay and Streamline in one hit. Joining fee is waived. Payment time between customer card payment and going into our bank is always less than 5 days - often 3.

G

 

[websnail]

For what it's worth I've just discovered that, despite being a long term member of FSB and user of Streamline I've been taken for a chump..

More than 5+ years of transactions with just one chargeback and the rates I've been getting just don't add up compared to Elavon and Sagepay.
2.98% on visa, 3.5% on MC, etc... and even after review 2.5% / 3.1% just doesn't add up against the flat rate 2.5% offered by Elavon through SagePay.

As to the payment gateway Paypoint.net has sorely tested my patience with lack of sensible CVS/AVS transaction checking that constantly rejects company registered cards because it can't provide address information properly and frequently suffers communication drop-outs with foreign bank systems resulting in yet more lost sales.

I quit Sagepay some years back when they were going through a hellish time upgrading systems, suffering downtime, etc... so it's something of a bittersweet moment of chagrin and it will cost a little more but it's something I should have done a year or more ago.


All that said though I'm still exploring Stripe as a backup/alternative option as single solutions tend to bite on the behind if/when things go wrong.

 

[japancool]

It's always worth shopping around for a merchant account. You don't have to get a merchant account with the gateway provider - most gateways are compatible with most merchant accounts, and because the merchant account will account for most of the cost, they're the part you have to pay most attention to. The gateway cost is similar across the board, about £20 a month with around 350 inclusive transactions, and 10p per transaction after that.

I found that the rates offered by the gateway provider's own merchant account weren't terribly competitive (that's Elevon with Sagepay, Streamline with Worldpay etc.) and I got a far better rate through cardswitcher. It does seem that going through an agent can get you a far better rate than if you go directly to the merchant provider.

Global Payments didn't even want to know about me, as I had no trading history.

 

[websnail]

For what it's worth I've just discovered that, despite being a long term member of FSB and user of Streamline I've been taken for a chump..

More than 5+ years of transactions with just one chargeback and the rates I've been getting just don't add up compared to Elavon and Sagepay.
2.98% on visa, 3.5% on MC, etc... and even after review 2.5% / 3.1% just doesn't add up against the flat rate 2.5% offered by Elavon through SagePay.

Sometimes you have to avoid making assumptions as the old saying "Ass-u-me" applies more frequently than most would like.

Seems the review I got from Streamline was for my foreign currency merchant accounts rather than the GBP internet one. Chasing that now...

Interesting about Cardswitcher but a lot of names that don't ring any bells and that appear to have feedback that is nearly a year out of date.

 

[LMDServicesUK]

Hi Websnail

We would definitely be able to offer you a more competitive package than you are currently on and with no contract tie in if you would like to discuss further please PM me.

Re your issues over CVV/AVS, this will be in part a function of how you set your gateway security up and how "loose" you choose to set it. I have had other Merchants with PayPoint having similar issues whom we have switched over to ourselves.

With our platform you can have it set between very strict to semi strict or switched off, however be aware if you set it to light or off, you will potentially incur NQ charges on the transactions affected.


We also support 3D Secure as standard for all cards that are registered on one of the 3D Secure programmes.

Happy to discuss your requirements if you so wish.

Kind regards

Mark

 

[japancool]

Interesting about Cardswitcher but a lot of names that don't ring any bells and that appear to have feedback that is nearly a year out of date.

I wouldn't worry too much about the unknown names - if they're offering accounts through the major providers, you'll be dealing with the provider anyway. I sent the application form to the agent, who then passed it on to the provider (in my case Lloyds Cardnet), and an account manager from Cardnet then contacted me to confirm details and proceed with the application.

 

[websnail]

Thanks for the input but I've opted to stay with Streamline for now.

The initial confusion regarding foreign currency accounts was resolved and the GBP handling rates I'm being offered now are considerably better so it's an ill wind n'all that.