A Look into the snake pit

[Dilbert66]

Just a thought for a friend. For all you business men and women on the forum your comments would be welcome.

A friend of mine has, as I see it, a very good internet based cash generating idea. This idea would help solve a problem that affects most people, however, my friend has a trust problem, and it would need involvement from 4 parties not including the customer.

The problem is that these 4 parties could well be perceived as some of the most untrustworthy in any society.
-The first party is like a retailer, (who could make up their own prices)
-The second is the financier (who can trust them, high prices higher profit)
-The third could well be the worst, they make some of the rules that help you buy the product
-The fourth is the party that helps you look after the product but they only have a vested interest of up to 4 years.

What they would want to know is, how not to make a mistake dealing with any of these parties, and what they should not do in setting up the business.

Oh almost forgot! the other thing that’s a bit tricky, is this idea may (or may not) upset in the short term all of the above including some speculative customers. Any help would be appreciated. The other thing you should know is my friend is very very ethically minded.

I would so like to give more information, but my friend is very fearful that someone will run off with their idea, and appreciate that people can only
answer in general terms.

Regards
Roger

 

[vvaannmmaann]

I don't see his problem.
Trust no-one.
Very good advice that was given to me almost 30 years ago.

 

[becker]

There are only two rules in business, especially business start-up....


1. Do not reveal everything you know.

2. See 1.

 

[becker]

Now for something a little less flippant……………..

Would it be possible to seek some sort of contractual agreement with each of the parties, without revealing the entire business model to each of the parties?

 

[Cornish Steve]

I fail to understand the rationale behind these comments. Without trust, you'll never grow a business. It's OK to use discretion, especially regarding financial aspects of your business, but you won't get far without partnerships and strong personal networks. This is as true within a company as it is between them. This means you should work primarily with trustworthy people. Can you attest to the trustworthiness of all four partners?

As for encouraging parties to work together, you have to come up with a win-win scenario. Craft an approach in which each party sees the potential reward. Structure those rewards in such a way that everyone pulls together instead of pulling apart. It may not be easy, but it's probably the key to your success.

 

[Dawg]

I fail to understand the rationale behind these comments. Without trust, you'll never grow a business. It's OK to use discretion, especially regarding financial aspects of your business, but you won't get far without partnerships and strong personal networks. This is as true within a company as it is between them. This means you should work primarily with trustworthy people. Can you attest to the trustworthiness of all four partners?

As for encouraging parties to work together, you have to come up with a win-win scenario. Craft an approach in which each party sees the potential reward. Structure those rewards in such a way that everyone pulls together instead of pulling apart. It may not be easy, but it's probably the key to your success.

I totally agree. Starting from a point of mistrust is self limiting; admitting that you can't read people, a vital business skill. Yes, you will make mistakes, everyone does, but you have a greater chance of success if you have partners rather than adversaries.
It's a mindset: do you see yourself as a potential world beater, who people work with, or are you potentially a victim who people work against?

 

[An Oasis]

...Without trust, you'll never grow a business. It's OK to use discretion, especially regarding financial aspects of your business, but you won't get far without partnerships and strong personal networks...

Fully support Steve's comments trust becomes a necessity for any aspect that you cannot provide, it just takes time to find the right company(s) to work with.

We are finally linking up with a company from Manchester who are excellent florists and our working partnership over the last 12 months has blossomed to the point that we will be putting all aspects of the floral side of the business their way.

 

[vvaannmmaann]

Richard,
Forgive me,but trusting a florist with a dozen buches of roses is quite different from trusting people that you don't know with ( potentially ) hundreds of thousands of pounds.
Steve,
You say "This means you should work primarily with trustworthy people" and how do you find them?.All the best con artists/thieves appear trustworthy.

Trust has to be earned and respect gained.I still maintain that you should trust no one.Everything I have ever done with my bank has been written down,in both directions.

 

[Dawg]

Richard,
Forgive me,but trusting a florist with a dozen buches of roses is quite different from trusting people that you don't know with ( potentially ) hundreds of thousands of pounds.
Steve,
You say "This means you should work primarily with trustworthy people" and how do you find them?.All the best con artists/thieves appear trustworthy.

Trust has to be earned and respect gained.I still maintain that you should trust no one.Everything I have ever done with my bank has been written down,in both directions.

Well that's you in your place then Richard 'twelve roses' Boyd.
I obviously shan't comment, being a lowly supplier to dogs, mutts and curs...

Vvannie, we'll just have to disagree: I've done 5 figure deals on a handshake, and will again. If I had asked for it all in writing the deals would have gone elsewhere, and the people I dealt with, insulted, would have moved on.
Different worlds, obviously.

 

[becker]

I fail to understand the rationale behind these comments.

The rationale behind these comments was: I was trying to offer some possible strategy for making a business proposition work where none of the parties trust each other.

Business is a tough world, in fact the world in general can be tough. A great many people/businesses are out to screw you over if they think they can get away with it. This is especially true of people/businesses trying to steal a great idea from someone without the mechanisms/infrastructure to move quickly enough to make a success of a great idea.

I/we pride ourselves on operating with complete integrity and honesty, however, as mature adults we recognise that not everyone shares our values or moral compass.

We have built a successful business based on trust between the various partners and demostrating to them a win-win-win scenario (us-them-customer), however, this trust was backed-up with NDAs, Heads-of-agreements, Referal agreements, Contracts, T&Cs, etc, etc. and only revealling enough of the business/operating model to gain the stakeholder buy in we required. For example, explaining that we could bring them additonal business, but not giving details about the strategy for achieving that.

 

[becker]

I've done 5 figure deals on a handshake, and will again......

....... and (in my corporate life) I've seen a couple of multi-hundred million pound deals go south because one of the corporate parties involved had a hidden agenda to take the deal away from the main company that 'owned' the customer. People thought that they had a 'trusted partner' - apparently not.

 

[vvaannmmaann]

Well that's you in your place then Richard 'twelve roses' Boyd.
I obviously shan't comment, being a lowly supplier to dogs, mutts and curs...

Vvannie, we'll just have to disagree: I've done 5 figure deals on a handshake, and will again. If I had asked for it all in writing the deals would have gone elsewhere, and the people I dealt with, insulted, would have moved on.
Different worlds, obviously.

Not trying to put anyone in their place,or belittle what they do.
These deals that you have done have come about from your developing a relationship,which was my point.

 

[Cornish Steve]

The rationale behind these comments was: I was trying to offer some possible strategy for making a business proposition work where none of the parties trust each other.

It's one thing to not trust someone, for example, in a one-off deal; maybe it's a pragmatic decision that won't hurt you in the long term. It's very different to enter into a startup partnership with 3-4 others in that way. If you don't trust them, don't enter the partnership. Find partners you can trust.

A great many people/businesses are out to screw you over if they think they can get away with it. This is especially true of people/businesses trying to steal a great idea from someone without the mechanisms/infrastructure to move quickly enough to make a success of a great idea.

I/we pride ourselves on operating with complete integrity and honesty, however, as mature adults we recognise that not everyone shares our values or moral compass.

You can take reasonable precautions, as you note later in your message, but you can never have a rock-solid guarantee that someone won't be out to get you. Personally, though, I find this rather sad. You claim that you operate with complete integrity and honesty, yet you act as if you're the only one in the world who does. (If I'm wrong, find the others and partner with them. Work only with people who do share your moral compass.)

this trust was backed-up with NDAs, Heads-of-agreements, Referal agreements, Contracts, T&Cs, etc, etc. and only revealling enough of the business/operating model to gain the stakeholder buy in we required. For example, explaining that we could bring them additonal business, but not giving details about the strategy for achieving that.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Indeed, you'd be foolhardy not to do so. This is very different, though, from an attitude that assumes everyone is out to get you.