82-year-old minority shareholder

[ECSWalker]

I have just bought a business (65%) and the minority shareholder is 82 years old. He wants to continue working but I'm concerned about the coronavirus.

Am I legally obligated to furlough (or something similar) him with him being 82 years old? He's falling asleep in meetings and really needs to retire, but wants to remain as long as possible. He drive long distances as he'll probably fall asleep at the wheel. I'm concerned that as the majority shareholder I'm liable if anything happens to him?

Any thoughts would be really appreciated.

 

[billybob99]

He's falling asleep in meetings

Time to call it a day gramps.

 

[dotcomdude]

I have just bought a business (65%) and the minority shareholder is 82 years old.

I don't think one shareholder has a duty to another shareholder just because of their perceived health risk. Might be different if you actually employ him.

 

[Mr D]

Discuss it with him. Bear in mind that as an adult he can make his own decisions, don't try and make them for him.

He's not an employee of yours?

 

[ECSWalker]

He's a director and will be stepping down as that shortly. He is on paye.

 

[Financial-Modeller]

Its not uncommon to offer aged owners of businesses some kind of consultancy role following the sale of their businesses.

Its more common to negotiate that before buying the company though!

As an employee, you either have to tempt him to reduce his hours or manage him out of the business, both of which are less desirable.

 

[Newchodge]

Am I legally obligated to furlough (or something similar) him

Absolutely NOT. You have a duty of care to him as an employee and to the wider public. If you have genuine concerns that his driving is potentially dangerous you must tell him he can no longer drive as an employee. You might wish to get an occ health opinion first. If his driving is not part of his employment role, you may wish to shop him to DVLA.

 

[ECSWalker]

We negotiated 2-6 months on a pro-rata basis. My main concern was whether I had a legal obligation to act with him being 82 years old and falling asleep throughout the day.

 

[Alison Moore]

My main concern was whether I had a legal obligation to act with him being 82 years old and falling asleep throughout the day.

I wouldn't have thought you couldn't prejudice against him because of this age, so the issue should be that he is falling asleep (not that he's 82). As long as he's not a danger when he's falling asleep, I would't have thought you need to do anything, other than gain as much knowledge from him before he steps down.

 

[MBE2017]

You could take a vote on his retirement next time he falls asleep.

 

[billybob99]

You could take a vote on his retirement next time he falls asleep.

Only logical solution.

 

[DontAsk]

It rather depends on what his duties are *as an employee* and his ability to perform those duties. Are the meetings where he falls asleep shareholder meetings or part of his duties as an employee?

As a shareholder, in shareholder meetings, he could be 105. It's irrelevant to your responsibilities.

 

[ECSWalker]

He fell asleep in a contracts meeting this morning. I've got a lot of time for the guy and he's an absolute gent, but he's not contributing at all. I'm afraid his wife is going to phone me one day to say he's fallen asleep at the wheel and had an accident.

 

[DontAsk]

He fell asleep in a contracts meeting this morning.

So set your disciplinary process in motion.

 

[SillyBill]

He fell asleep in a contracts meeting this morning. I've got a lot of time for the guy and he's an absolute gent, but he's not contributing at all. I'm afraid his wife is going to phone me one day to say he's fallen asleep at the wheel and had an accident.

I feel for you. It is a difficult one to navigate but surprisingly common IME. I've been there. I agree with another poster that offering a total buy out and a consultancy role is a potential option, I've done it. Zero need for the consultant in my case and cost another wage effectively for a few years but critically it allows somebody (who may have dedicated their life to the business) to feel important, have somewhere to "pop in" from time-to-time yet gets them out of the day-to-day.

I've seen a family firm or two crippled by inertia because grandpa can't let go. And in my case someone who was instrumental to the firm for 3-4 decades but an increasing liability in the latter years. It did look like the only way out for mine was in a box. It got to the point I was having to protect him from the rest of the staff who were perpetually frustrated with him. Ultimately puts a permanent block for progression for another person in a business too who may have the skills and appetite to kick the business onto new heights. I've always maintained I'd not be that guy that doesn't recognise the world has moved on and to recognise (when and if the time comes) that perhaps I ought to stand down from my own business for the good of the business. It can really taint your view when someone who has achieved so much doesn't recognise when they aren't as good as they used to be. I think an owner/employee of a business has a duty to be self-critical. To separate our shareholder from employee. It isn't fair to put another owner in that position. No different to a footballer whoring himself out in the lower leagues after a illustrious career. Best to go out at the top, certainly my aim.

 

[Mr D]

He fell asleep in a contracts meeting this morning. I've got a lot of time for the guy and he's an absolute gent, but he's not contributing at all. I'm afraid his wife is going to phone me one day to say he's fallen asleep at the wheel and had an accident.

If he hasn't done it in the last 60 odd years then you can't say he'll do it now.
Lots of old drivers on the road who don't fall asleep at the wheel. He's younger than my dad who has never fallen asleep at the wheel - and still driving at 86.
Then again there have been instances of people under the age of 40 who have fallen asleep at the wheel. But would not suggest all young drivers stop driving to work.

 

[SillyBill]

If he hasn't done it in the last 60 odd years.

It tends to be the sort of activity you only do once. Prior experience isn't a requirement...

 

[Mr D]

It tends to be the sort of activity you only do once. Prior experience isn't a requirement...

Also doesn't mean its going to happen.
Must be thousands of old people who drive who don't sleep while driving.

 

[SillyBill]

Must be thousands of old people who drive who don't sleep while driving.

Yeah, all of them that are still alive I guess. You don't half post for the sake of it.

 

[Mr D]

Yeah, all of them that are still alive I guess. You don't half post for the sake of it.

You appear to think this guy will fall asleep while driving. Without any evidence or indeed anything other than he falls asleep elsewhere.

So do you and I. But will we get banned from driving? No.


People don't automatically die from falling asleep at the wheel. Its scary when it happens but it is also survivable.

 

[Aniela]

You appear to think this guy will fall asleep while driving. Without any evidence or indeed anything other than he falls asleep elsewhere.

So do you and I. But will we get banned from driving? No.


People don't automatically die from falling asleep at the wheel. Its scary when it happens but it is also survivable.

That's the problem with certain things like this. It's not technically a problem, until it is and then it's too late.

 

[Aniela]

You could take a vote on his retirement next time he falls asleep.

This reply deserves a medal.

 

[Mr D]

That's the problem with certain things like this. It's not technically a problem, until it is and then it's too late.

Bit like the owner of a one man business dying of a heart attack. Business runs fine right up until it cannot.

Come to think of it, lots of ways of dying that are sudden - what if a 45 year old driver of a vehicle dies at the wheel while driving???

 

[Alan]

He's falling asleep in meetings

Falling asleep in meetings has nothing to do with age. I have been fighting off falling asleep in meetings since my 20's.

Some top tips
1) don't hold meetings immediately after lunch
2) don't have heating too high - keep it down at about 18/19 oC
3) set short meetings e.g. 15 or 25 minutes so they are brisk
4) if you can, have a 'standing up' meetings
5) only invite people to the meeting that absolutely need to be there
6) keep it interesting

Now many people I have worked for have not followed that list and so I often end up fighting off the urge to sleep, so much so I developed a technique, fold my arms across my chest so my fingers are under the inside of my biceps, and then with my finger nails pinch the skin on the underside of my arms, this creates enough pain to stay awake.

 

[Alpha Helica Peptides]

I think you have to support him, in the old age he wants to work and as you mentioned he does long driving, this is really hard to do in old age. According to me at the age of 82, we would need only bed or we are in the grave. LOL

Enjoy the days with him and learn how he is dealing with it. Nobody knows how long we live?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Could the company afford to either send someone to pick him up using maybe a company car, or pay for a taxi, if he limited his visits to may be just two days a week, he could then snooze on the way and be more active when he arrived

As MD you do have a Duty of Care for all employees