5 Ways To Get Britain On Its Feet Again

[Scousejock]

Simple many of the largest earners pay the smallest amount of tax by clever planning. Having a lower rate often means you collect more.

I posted on this thread a couple of days ago to say how certain walks of life believe work is above them.

I was watching the news today and would like to shed light on something else and that is the news coming out that 'economists' are calling for the 50p tax rate to be scrapped.

Whilst I am no economist, I think that this temporary tax rate should stop in either it's current form, or changed slightly. George Osborne should not bow to pressure from his economist friends, who say that business will move abroad etc.

The 20 economists putting pressure on the Chancellor say that the 50p tax rate is 'damaging growth' and 'failing to generate significant revenues'. I cannot fathom how having a 50p tax band is 'failing to generate significant revenues', and I think that the economy is not about protecting 'big business', it is instead about backing small business and by generating permanent jobs in some form or another for those out of work, desperate to find work.

I fall somewhere in the higher rate of earnings, but have a chance to, and would love to earn in excess of £150k a year, and unlike these economists, I wouldn't mind paying the additional tax rate that comes with the figure, knowing that my good fortune is going towards helping those in society who have fallen into hardship because of mistakes made from forces way out of their control.

The government should strongly consider a lower rate of tax, or a scrap on tax for those earning lowly wages who feel the pinch from increasing energy prices, who struggle to put food on the table for their children, who it would not be viable for one person to go to work as childcare costs are sky high and for those people who it would be more beneficial to them to spend time on state benefits.

Helping this economy and society does not mean helping the priveliged who have worked to find themselves on £150,000 a year. It is about helping the hundreds of thousands of families stuck in what we call 'poverty' at the bottom end of the scale.

And that is why I don't like economists.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Why is it a big ask for someone to be expected to earn the money they receive rather than have it handed to them. As I have done exactly what you say is a big ask (and yes it was difficult. I was 14 when I moved and settling into a new school in england with a thick a broad accent from scotland is not easy) Thats the problem tho life is not always going to be easy and people have to accept that sometime we have to make sacrifices to achieve what we want.

What most people want is to be relatively comfortable with a roof over their head, food in their stomachs and a fit and healthy family close by.

Moving 200 miles away from family just to get the former simply doesn't work.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Indeed, it's only a big ask because the welfare system gives them an easier option. I've also moved hundreds of miles away from my family to live near to London for the simple reason that "that's where the jobs are".

If people really want to pull themselves out of poverty then they will have to work hard at it, and maybe make a few sacrifices along the way.

My family are my life and I would not be prepared to, and nor should anybody else have to move miles away to satisfy the right of every person to earn a living.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Totally agree. No one should get a pat on the back for doing what it takes to work it should be what everyone does.
I have one friend who is having to work overseas right now away from his wife and children because there is no work in his sector in the UK. He hates it but it pays the bills so it is a sacrifice he is willing to take.

So did a mate of mine, and it nearly cost him his marriage, certainly cost him an awful lot of lost moments with his kids and is a much regretted period of his life.

 

[JohnnyCash]

Going to see the accountant in Prague tomorrow as we set up another company out here to move another high earning website out of the grasp of the taxman...

6 figures a month profit the UK won't see a cent on due to red tape, tax and hassle.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Going to see the accountant in Prague tomorrow as we set up another company out here to move another high earning website out of the grasp of the taxman...

6 figures a month profit the UK won't see a cent on due to red tape, tax and hassle.

Quote from 31st August:

Even in the cities and towns a lot of the money being earned by these workers is immediately leaving the country - how can that be good for the UK as a whole?:

Johnny Cash

Pot Kettle Black

 

[Podge]

Going to see the accountant in Prague tomorrow as we set up another company out here to move another high earning website out of the grasp of the taxman...

6 figures a month profit the UK won't see a cent on due to greed.

Corrected your post for you.

 

[JohnnyCash]

Quote from 31st August:

Even in the cities and towns a lot of the money being earned by these workers is immediately leaving the country - how can that be good for the UK as a whole?:

Johnny Cash

Pot Kettle Black

Big difference there is the UK gov can't stop me being a tax tourist - they could force lazy natives into taking the jobs the Poles and Lithuanians are taking.

 

[JohnnyCash]

Corrected your post for you.

If the tax money wasn't wasted on the likes of you, maybe I wouldn't feel the need to take such actions.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Big difference there is the UK gov can't stop me being a tax tourist - they could force lazy natives into taking the jobs the Poles and Lithuanians are taking.

The moral obligation to one's conscience that should oversee that which you say or type seems to be lost on you.

 

[gezzagregz]

I can see why small business owners get frustrated. They want to re-invest and grow their business, but red tape on employment laws for example and the ridiculous tax they must pay prevents this.

The government did launch the Office of Tax Simplification (http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/ots.htm) who are reviewing the tax system and are looking to scrap some of the obscene tax laws - this should help smaller businesses.

Also small businesses can take advantage of an initiative called start up Britain http://www.startupbritain.org/ where you can receive support and access to a number of great offers when developing your business.

 

[scm5436]

My family are my life and I would not be prepared to, and nor should anybody else have to move miles away to satisfy the right of every person to earn a living.

Sure, fair enough. People shouldn't be forced to move - but on the other hand we shouldn't be forced to basically earn their living for them because they don't want to move away from their family.

It just comes down to a question of what is "right". Some people (probably the majority of people on benefits) think that they have the right to live of the taxpayer from cradle to grave if they choose to, or if the only jobs locally are "beneath them"; while other people (probably the majority of taxpayers) think that the unemployed should take any work they can, or take reasonable actions to find work (including moving to where the jobs are).

I'm pretty sure that these 2 sides are not going to agree anytime soon...

ps. and when I previously said 'family' I meant extended family - obviously I took my immediate family with me!

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Sure, fair enough. People shouldn't be forced to move - but on the other hand we shouldn't be forced to basically earn their living for them because they don't want to move away from their family.

It just comes down to a question of what is "right". Some people (probably the majority of people on benefits) think that they have the right to live of the taxpayer from cradle to grave if they choose to, or if the only jobs locally are "beneath them"; while other people (probably the majority of taxpayers) think that the unemployed should take any work they can, or take reasonable actions to find work (including moving to where the jobs are).

I'm pretty sure that these 2 sides are not going to agree anytime soon...

ps. and when I previously said 'family' I meant extended family - obviously I took my immediate family with me!

'Probably the majority of people on benefits'...........

Having been a user of the benefits system back in the early 90's and knowing somebody who works in the system now that is most definately not the case.

What exactly is a job that is 'beneath them'? Most people are 'what they do' in their work or hobby. When you suggest that a middle manager takes on a role as a toilet cleaner, you stand to create a huge problem that stems from the removal of their status. It is simply not socially practical.

Of course a middle manager should and would look for a lesser role but to imply that they are workshy because they won't do a basic job demonstrates a failure to understand what makes people tick.

 

[scm5436]

'Probably the majority of people on benefits'...........

ok, maybe I'm putting words in peoples mouths, but I find it hard to believe that a lot of benefit claimants don't think they have a "right" to benefits. I mean I find it hard to believe that the majority on benefits really really want to be in work rather than living off the tax payer.

What exactly is a job that is 'beneath them'?

Well, how about all of the low paid jobs out there that are unfilled, or have been filled by immigrants who don't seem to have too much trouble finding jobs?

Most people are 'what they do' in their work or hobby. When you suggest that a middle manager takes on a role as a toilet cleaner, you stand to create a huge problem that stems from the removal of their status. It is simply not socially practical.

Sure, but if you have no skills, and no qualifications, and no experience then "toilet cleaner" isn't an unreasonable suggestion. But given the choice between staying on benefits or getting work as a toilet cleaner, how many unskilled claimants would choose toilet cleaner?

Of course a middle manager should and would look for a lesser role but to imply that they are workshy because they won't do a basic job demonstrates a failure to understand what makes people tick.

Agreed. I'm not implying that all unemployed are scroungers who simply don't want to work, there are plenty of recently employed people who have been laid of and are finding it very difficult to find a new job. And someone whose just lost a professional job will have a hard time downgrading as they may have (hard to unwind) financial commitments such as a mortgage that wouldn't be covered by a much lower paying job (though nor will it be covered by benefits), so of course they can't just take any job - but nor should they hold out for a long period of time for an equal job to come along and refuse anything less.

Let's not forget that un-employment is not new - but welfare benefits are. And when they were introduced they were only intended to provide some financial assistance to keep you going when you "between jobs". Not permanent income from leaving school to death...

 

[Podge]

Once again we have the issue that if eastern europeans can get the jobs that means that the brits won't take them. Poppycock!

You only need to look at the threads on here to see that most employers would rather employ eastern europeans.
I find it rich that the brits are accused of not wanting the jobs when it's quite clear that employers would rather give the job to a foreigner, and do so.

I don't think you should be blaming people for not taking jobs that they are not offered in the first place.

 

[JohnnyCash]

What does that say about the quality of the job applicants if businesses would rather take someone who can't speak English as a native language over them?

 

[WebTrust]

You see seems everyone wants to hold the bottom of the ladder responsible for our woes,but its the top rungs that are weak.

Earl

Wow your posts are usually bad, but now to think the people who pay the most tax are the problem........vs the people who pay no tax and take the money paid in.

 

[WebTrust]

What does that say about the quality of the job applicants if businesses would rather take someone who can't speak English as a native language over them?

That's the problem, no one wants to hire scum bags, Marks and Spencer are having huge issue finding "suitable staff"

 

[WebTrust]

'Probably the majority of people on benefits'...........

Having been a user of the benefits system back in the early 90's and knowing somebody who works in the system now that is most definately not the case.

What exactly is a job that is 'beneath them'? Most people are 'what they do' in their work or hobby. When you suggest that a middle manager takes on a role as a toilet cleaner, you stand to create a huge problem that stems from the removal of their status. It is simply not socially practical.

Of course a middle manager should and would look for a lesser role but to imply that they are workshy because they won't do a basic job demonstrates a failure to understand what makes people tick.

Manager being a toilet cleaner? what are you on about.

I think we're more talking the dole scroungers who have sat on the dole for between 10-30 years never worked, but feel their too good to work in a Petrol Station, or fast food.

 

Wow your posts are usually bad, but now to think the people who pay the most tax are the problem........vs the people who pay no tax and take the money paid in.

So do you think you're local road sweeper runs the country?

http://entertainment.timesonline.co...tainment/books/non-fiction/article3276665.ece

Earl

 

[Scousejock]

Once again we have the issue that if eastern europeans can get the jobs that means that the brits won't take them. Poppycock!

You only need to look at the threads on here to see that most employers would rather employ eastern europeans.
I find it rich that the brits are accused of not wanting the jobs when it's quite clear that employers would rather give the job to a foreigner, and do so.

I don't think you should be blaming people for not taking jobs that they are not offered in the first place.

I know for a fact of many companies who can not get staff because they are low paid manual jobs. Yes they employ many overseas people but not thru choice but because that is the only people who apply and actually want that work.

 

[Podge]

I can only speak from personal experience. I have a good work ethic as is evidenced in my CV that can be backed up with references but I very rarely hear back from the companies that I apply to.

Now don't get me wrong, If I was employing I probably wouldn't employ me either. I'm just short of 60, been unemployed for nearly two years and this following a bout of illness that kept me out of work for four years.

That doesn't mean I'm not trying or that I'm lazy it's simply that for employers I pose to much of a risk.

 

[Scousejock]

I can only speak from personal experience. I have a good work ethic as is evidenced in my CV that can be backed up with references but I very rarely hear back from the companies that I apply to.

Now don't get me wrong, If I was employing I probably wouldn't employ me either. I'm just short of 60, been unemployed for nearly two years and this following a bout of illness that kept me out of work for four years.

That doesn't mean I'm not trying or that I'm lazy it's simply that for employers I pose to much of a risk.

Your situation is very different to the "norm" but that said there are a lot of people who are unfortunately in a similar position to you.

Your right in saying that many employers may not want to take on someone of 60 but there are some that actively encourage it. I know a family member worked at B&Q when he lost his job at a similar age.

What many of the people on here are talking about are the people in their 20s & 30s who have not worked for many years and dont even really try.

 

[WebTrust]

So do you think you're local road sweeper runs the country?

http://entertainment.timesonline.co...tainment/books/non-fiction/article3276665.ece

Earl

Why would someone making 10 million a year, pay more tax?

Do they use the police more? do they use the NHS more? Do they use the fire service more?

NO!

So punish people for working hardest of all, yeah great idea!

 

[matt seymour]

I can only speak from personal experience. I have a good work ethic as is evidenced in my CV that can be backed up with references but I very rarely hear back from the companies that I apply to.

Now don't get me wrong, If I was employing I probably wouldn't employ me either. I'm just short of 60, been unemployed for nearly two years and this following a bout of illness that kept me out of work for four years.

That doesn't mean I'm not trying or that I'm lazy it's simply that for employers I pose to much of a risk.

I was in a similar position to you Podge, although I am 20 years younger. I also had a longterm health problem, which kept me out of work and when I did start applying for jobs I didn't get a single interview. A lengthy period of unemployment on your CV doesn't look good and I can understand why employers don't look too kindly on it.

It was because of this that I took matters into my own hands and started a business myself as it appeared that I was the only person who would employ me!

 

Why would someone making 10 million a year, pay more tax?

Do they use the police more? do they use the NHS more? Do they use the fire service more?

NO!

So punish people for working hardest of all, yeah great idea!

Now you are being stupid ,once you get over the first few million.

Hard work becomes a thing of the past unless you are some kind of power mad masochist.

Earl
.

 

Afraid people over 50 do not fare well in the job stakes through no fault of there own.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/aug/11/older-workers-long-term-unemployment

Earl

 

[Podge]

I was in a similar position to you Podge, although I am 20 years younger. I also had a longterm health problem, which kept me out of work and when I did start applying for jobs I didn't get a single interview. A lengthy period of unemployment on your CV doesn't look good and I can understand why employers don't look too kindly on it.

It was because of this that I took matters into my own hands and started a business myself as it appeared that I was the only person who would employ me!

And if I was 20 years younger I would consider doing the same myself. Unfortunately I don't have the drive, the will or the finances to start a business that just might make a profit before I pop my clogs.

 

[gezzagregz]

I was in a similar position to you Podge, although I am 20 years younger. I also had a longterm health problem, which kept me out of work and when I did start applying for jobs I didn't get a single interview. A lengthy period of unemployment on your CV doesn't look good and I can understand why employers don't look too kindly on it.

It was because of this that I took matters into my own hands and started a business myself as it appeared that I was the only person who would employ me!

Every credit! - have you checked out startupbritain.org? There might be some good free resources for your business to take advantage of on there...

For those looking for work but hitting a brick wall... why not get recruitment firms doing the work for you in finding appropriate jobs? - they have the contacts and resources. There are thousands of them out there.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Manager being a toilet cleaner? what are you on about.

I think we're more talking the dole scroungers who have sat on the dole for between 10-30 years never worked, but feel their too good to work in a Petrol Station, or fast food.

When I was out of work in the early 90's I was told I had to go for a job as a toilet cleaner.

Some people don't want to work Fact of Life, get over it.

Some people will fire a dozen people, close down factories, and merge companies without so much as a pang of conscience when picking up their million pound salary. When you start shouting a little louder about the atrocities carried out by big business and the banks your anguish over a relative handful of people taking peanuts out of the system may be heard.

 

[MASSEY]

Some people will fire a dozen people, close down factories, and merge companies without so much as a pang of conscience when picking up their million pound salary. When you start shouting a little louder about the atrocities carried out by big business and the banks your anguish over a relative handful of people taking peanuts out of the system may be heard.

I saw a show about some of these guys who sat on their arses for years, "we want to work" is what they were saying, obviously they don't want it that much or they wouldnt be getting every benefit under the sun.

 

[internetspaceships]

When I was out of work in the early 90's I was told I had to go for a job as a toilet cleaner.

Some people don't want to work Fact of Life, get over it.

Some people will fire a dozen people, close down factories, and merge companies without so much as a pang of conscience when picking up their million pound salary. When you start shouting a little louder about the atrocities carried out by big business and the banks your anguish over a relative handful of people taking peanuts out of the system may be heard.

I don't get this. Really I don't. You're saying that the big business people are more of a problem than the people who just take everything for granted?

 

I don't get this. Really I don't. You're saying that the big business people are more of a problem than the people who just take everything for granted?

Of course they are:

http://entertainment.timesonline.co...tainment/books/non-fiction/article3276665.ece

Earl

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

I don't get this. Really I don't. You're saying that the big business people are more of a problem than the people who just take everything for granted?

No, i'm saying that in any aspect of life you will get all types of people.

There are people who simply don't want to work and those who are simply unemployable. Those who want to work for themselves and those who want to dominate the business world. At either end there are extremes of behaviour and attitudes and I believe that vitriolic attacks levelled at those who choose not to work should be balanced by the same on those who play the system at the other end.

I guess my view first changed when I attended the Executive Job Club in the early 90's where unemployed managers like myself could meet and were supplied with broadsheet newspapers carrying the latest recruitment pullouts. One chap who arrived in his Daimler was only signing on to get his stamp paid prior to retirement some months later. Another spoke of his share dealings with a third who was trading in sugar! These guys were milking the system but because they wore suits it was ok?

In contrast I attended a CV writing day where a 20 something married guy with a young baby spoke of his worries as he'd been moonlighting to pay for a birthday outing for his older daughter and been caught. He had some decorating work, just not enough to survive on but there was no midway point in the benefits system that allowed him to be honest, just as there wasn't for the men in suits.

 

Afraid the top end do far more damage than a few loafers at the bottom.

example:

When Debenhams was bought by private equity it was paying £40m a year in tax. For the two years that it was owned privately it actually received £8m from the Treasury. Likewise the AA/Saga consortium, valued at £6.1 billion, paid no tax at all when owned by private equity.
Peston navigates with ease the shark-infested waters of hedge funds, sub-prime borrowing, defined-benefit pensions and loans for honours. Some of his heroes are giants of corporate restructuring, such as Green, and Stuart Rose of Marks & Spencer, but most are money men, Brown's friend Ronnie Cohen, the shy billionaire, Damon Buffini of Permira and the civil servant, John Chisholm, of QinetiQ, who contrived to turn a stake of £130,000 into a profit of £21m from what should have been the public's money. These men persuaded Blair and Brown that their greed was in the public interest and that offshore private equity was the same as American "venture capital", when it was not.



Earl

 

[90DC]

90DC,

Are you living in lala land. The first paycheck/divident, sale of company that pushed you into the 50% and you held your tax bill I know exactly what you would do as I did it myself. You would look for ways to legally minimize your tax exposure.

There is tax avoidance which is illegal and tax minimization which is perfectly legal.

Look at Google for example. They have paid the princely sum of 8m in UK tax on circa 20bn GBP turnover. Or Microsoft who ship their own product into Dubai to a holding company who then sells their own products back to their American wing at slightly less than retail. Thus holding taxable profit well offshore. They only pay tax on what they bring back into the taxable region. Apple's recent acquisition had nothing to do with patents, it was a tax write off.

My point being that the 50p tax is useless. When, and I really hope you do, reach the 50p bracket the extra money you are paying out I 100% guarantee you will want to keep said money in your family and any half decent tax lawyer will tell you many ways you can do it.

Logic for why it is a useless tax rate is it costs the country exactly the same for me and you to live in this country. IE medical, using roads, rubbish disposal, education, etc as it costs anyone else. So why should I have to pay many multiple times more to live here because I bring home more money than the person next door?

I think the point of this thread is how to get rid of the scroungers and keep those of us actually building demand for gainful employment in the country by not taxing us to death.

Valid point.

 

[Dutchnick]

The property crisis, and it is that, has seriously distorted the economy and suborns what should be rational decisions. House prices in Germany are so much lower in comparison with the UK so that moving to a new job etc is easy and mobility is not a problem nor is finance. We need therefore to get house prices down (squeals from home owners!) The Government must embark on a massive building programme and increase the supply, if this can drift prices down 2/3/4% per year plus inflation at say 5% over the next few years we will get nearer to the traditional relationship between earnings anmd house prices. A really huge building programme would boost the economy massively. For tax I rather like (prefer would be a better word) VAT etc, I pay tax by choice, spend more on an expensive car etc I pay more tax. Simplify the tax system. How foolish to waste state employees time and effort giving child allowance, winter fuel payments etc at some huge cost when it is recovered as soon as I pay tax. Regulation, red tape etc? Well I gave up in the UK as environment agency, councils H&E etc were a nightmare. I am afraid I sold up, sacked 11 workers and moved overseas. I objected to the costs and incompetance of the non private sector who's basic remit was to say no. As one planning officer joked, if he said yes he would not have a job!

 

[rothwellm]

We add birth control drugs to cheap alcohol, fast forward to 2031 we are one of the richest nations on earth with zero unemployment. Off the top of my head.

 

[Scousejock]

We add birth control drugs to cheap alcohol, fast forward to 2031 we are one of the richest nations on earth with zero unemployment. Off the top of my head.

pmsl quality I might be stuck working in the office on my wedding anniversary but you just brightened up my day lol