5 Ways To Get Britain On Its Feet Again

[Mustaka]

I agree with everything you say Anne. I think if people are on benefits they should be put to work. Even in aprentiships where they can learn a decent trade to make a decent income.

 

I agree with everything you say Anne. I think if people are on benefits they should be put to work. Even in aprentiships where they can learn a decent trade to make a decent income.

Does that include the royal family and all the public service workers?

Earl

 

[Scousejock]

benefits are to top up the income of low earners. Not give an income to those who dont want to work.

If they want to make the choice to not work they should receive NOTHING.

It doesnt help tho that low earners can be as well of with no job. Some incentive should be given to get people to work. For me all the incentive I have ever needed is that I would never sign on. Even when I was younger I always worked even in low income jobs. Including bar work, labouring and even dish washer in a kitchen. A friend once asked if I had no pride doing these jobs which he considered beneath me. I said obviously he had no pride in asking that question.

 

[gezzagregz]

The problem is that our benefits culture has lulled people into thinking that they have a right to an income. No effort needed. People have been able to make lifestyle choices to only work part-time or not at all and the state will supplement that choice.
I once watched a program about emigrating to Australia and the contestant was a part-time teacher who had loads of kids and a stay-at-home wife. He opted to only work part-time in this country because the state picked up the bill - he was dissapointed to learn that he would have to work full time in Oz because they had no supplements. He was aghast at the thought of a full working week!
There are businesses in the UK with jobs on offer but the quality of candidate is poor. I recently advertised for bar staff and was hit with about 50 applications. I offered interviews and almost half didn't respond to my offer - they simply were not interested in the job just following procedure to keep their benefits.
One of the suggestions bounced around by this government was that benefit claimants would be required to carry out some form of community work for their benefits. A local television news station interviewed a single mum claimant who was an IT graduate. She had been unable to secure a job as she expected to command such a high salary to cover her benefit loss. She moaned about the possibility of being forced to sweep a road in return for her benefits. Whats wrong with cleaning in return for money? I own my own company but still have to do it? Why is she allowed to make a lifestyle choice to remain on benefits until a job which she deems suitable comes along?

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I also remember David Cameron vowing to implement this...I’m not surprised it hasn’t happened...just think about how many votes they would lose.[/FONT]

 

[Podge]

I don't go on to the work programme until january next year which is a bit of a disappointment as I was hoping it was going to be this month.

I have no problem with working for my benefits in charitable institutions or social projects in fact I can't wait, but thats not what a lot on here want to hear, they would rather label all the unemployed as idle scroungers.

Vauluntary work, I've lost track of the amount of positions I've applied for and never heard back.

But again that's not something lot's on here want to hear.

 

[AnneLou]

I don't think all unemployed people are scroungers - thats just a label! Over the last couple of years, huge swathes of people who were previously in employment found themselves redundant and needing support from the state. They had worked - contributed to the system. But then they found themselves needing the system to help them but the system couldn't help in the way it should of. It couldn't provide the right kind of support financially and morally because it was so used to dealing with long term unemployed who expected the state to pick up the bill until just the right kind of job which suited them came along.
It was no wonder that in the past employers looked to the European countries to supply labour. Staff with no mental blocks about why a job was beneath them. Staff who simply needed the money.
If employers weren't propping up the benefit system - if we got the Tax Credits paid to us instead of the employee - we would have the cash to offer more. Higher pay and more jobs.
Vote for me for Prime Minister!

 

[gezzagregz]

I don't go on to the work programme until january next year which is a bit of a disappointment as I was hoping it was going to be this month.

I have no problem with working for my benefits in charitable institutions or social projects in fact I can't wait, but thats not what a lot on here want to hear, they would rather label all the unemployed as idle scroungers.

Vauluntary work, I've lost track of the amount of positions I've applied for and never heard back.

But again that's not something lot's on here want to hear.

I don't think anyone here would/can label all the unemployed as 'idle scroungers' at all.

There have been many cut backs e.g. public sector - the people that were made redundant & now are receiving support are not scroungers. They have paid their taxes and have every right to financial support.

However let's not get all politically correct on this point...there are millions of scroungers who abuse the system and the worse thing about it is; if the government wanted to actually weed these persistent offenders out they could. They won't because of the uproar it would cause (just think back to the recent riots!). If you spoon feed someone long enough they will become dependent on you for life!

I do however believe that there are other things like education that also need to be reviewed as a priority.

 

[Podge]

I don't think anyone here would/can label all the unemployed as 'idle scroungers' at all.

There have been many cut backs e.g. public sector - the people that were made redundant & now are receiving support are not scroungers. They have paid their taxes and have every right to financial support.

However let's not get all politically correct on this point...there are millions of scroungers who abuse the system and the worse thing about it is; if the government wanted to actually weed these persistent offenders out they could. They won't because of the uproar it would cause (just think back to the recent riots!). If you spoon feed someone long enough they will become dependent on you for life!

I do however believe that there are other things like education that also need to be reviewed as a priority.

Of course the system is abused but it's abused no more so than any of the other systems that are open to abuse and your claim of millions is simply an over exaggeration to give substance to your point of view.

It's completely nonsensical to threaten the withdrawl of benefits for not working when there is no work to be had for the vast majority of the unemployed.

Just out of interest how would you weed out the fraudsters?

I know what would do it but the country can't afford it.

 

[Dymo King]

Getting back to the original post for a moment - ie. what can be done to sort the country out - I've created a new, similar, post here:

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=224576

Instead of making theoretical suggestions that will probably never be implemented, I'm asking for practical suggestions of what we can do.

Now it might turn out that the answer is "nothing at all", but let's at least have a think about it and see if we can come up with some sensible suggestions.

 

[gezzagregz]

Of course the system is abused but it's abused no more so than any of the other systems that are open to abuse and your claim of millions is simply an over exaggeration to give substance to your point of view.

It's completely nonsensical to threaten the withdrawl of benefits for not working when there is no work to be had for the vast majority of the unemployed.

Just out of interest how would you weed out the fraudsters?

I know what would do it but the country can't afford it.

I never suggested withdrawing benefits for all the unemployed (maybe at some point of my life ill be unemployed and you better believe ill be claiming my absolute right to benefits whilst looking for a job). HOWEVER, I think identifying those who abuse the system (which is one of the reasons why everyone has to pay so much tax in this country) should be given a list of jobs - If they dont take a job they dont get the luxury of falling back on all their benefits...what is wrong with that?

I believe there are jobs out there. Yes some do not fit peoples ideal spec, but they're jobs all the same.

This thread was about more than just the benefits system (albeit an important issue). There are other areas that the government really need to address...I think a biggy is employability skills of school/college/uni leavers AND also making it easier for small businesses to develop without worrying about so much red tape!

 

I believe there are jobs out there. Yes some do not fit peoples ideal spec, but they're jobs all the same.

There may well Be Martians out there also,not sure which you may find first.

you're beliefs and facts should get together sometime.

Earl

 

[gezzagregz]

There may well Be Martians out there also,not sure which you may find first.

you're beliefs and facts should get together sometime.

Earl

ill point you in the right direction. it took all of 10 seconds for me to get to this: http://jobseekers.direct.gov.uk/homepage.aspx?sessionid=0206c207-f661-4eca-8baa-7169cdfd67da&pid=1

 

[internetspaceships]

There may well Be Martians out there also,not sure which you may find first.

you're beliefs and facts should get together sometime.

Earl

Notwithstanding the fact that your spelling and grammar should come together some time....

Back in the 80s people went to where the jobs were. They didn't sit at home so much waiting for work to turn up in their town. There are a lot of jobs around but I'll grant you the fact that some few parts of the country are really suffering.

The North East for example. However a lot of folk from up there can be found working all over the UK to BE employed. I think that people should do some kind of community work for their benefits, even a couple of days per week.

I even believe that we should change the benefits system to cap benefits at no more net income than the families were receiviing whilst they were employed, or minimum wage if they have never worked. Regardless of kids.

This might make more people THINK before breeding uncontrollably, and get rid of the "I can't afford to get off benefits" culture.

How people can sit on their asses gettign fat and breeding, whilst taking home more money than hard working couples is beyond me.

Most of these people wouldn't be CAPABLE of more than minimum wage jobs so why are they entitled to double or three times that for not working.

 

[Podge]

ill point you in the right direction. it took all of 10 seconds for me to get to this: http://jobseekers.direct.gov.uk/homepage.aspx?sessionid=0206c207-f661-4eca-8baa-7169cdfd67da&pid=1

I'm afaraid you're very naive if you believe jobs at the jobcentre means there is work for all.

New jobs bring down unemployment not recycled ones.

 

[Podge]

Inter

Tell me how much you think I recieve in benefits?

 

[internetspaceships]

Mate it doesn't matter how much you receive in benefits for the purposes of this discussion. You probably get very little. That's because as you've posted before you have worked all your life and paid your way.

Hence you don't have an upbringing that schools you in leeching off the system. As such you don't know HOW to get a good living from benefits.

Sadly we have a complete sub class of society that does, and can, and milks it.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

It's funny how the many people who pontificate about the need for those on benefits or low incomes to work, shake in there boots when you suggest that they give up part of their £100k salaries to employ somebody.

Work is not simply about money. It's about self worth, maintaining the family unit, hope, prospects and achievement. Of course when somebody is out of work they have none of the above but those feelings will not be greatly enhanced if doing a crap job for crap money working 200 miles from home.

The benefits system is wrong as is the unscrupulous behaviour of bankers and MP's.

I asked the question the other day but had no takers.

Hands up who's never knocked off VAT for cash or paid cash to avoid paying it?

 

[gezzagregz]

Notwithstanding the fact that your spelling and grammar should come together some time....

Back in the 80s people went to where the jobs were. They didn't sit at home so much waiting for work to turn up in their town. There are a lot of jobs around but I'll grant you the fact that some few parts of the country are really suffering.

The North East for example. However a lot of folk from up there can be found working all over the UK to BE employed. I think that people should do some kind of community work for their benefits, even a couple of days per week.

I even believe that we should change the benefits system to cap benefits at no more net income than the families were receiviing whilst they were employed, or minimum wage if they have never worked. Regardless of kids.

This might make more people THINK before breeding uncontrollably, and get rid of the "I can't afford to get off benefits" culture.

How people can sit on their asses gettign fat and breeding, whilst taking home more money than hard working couples is beyond me.

Most of these people wouldn't be CAPABLE of more than minimum wage jobs so why are they entitled to double or three times that for not working.

I actually agree with what you are saying (minus the first sentence)

 

[Scousejock]

It's completely nonsensical to threaten the withdrawl of benefits for not working when there is no work to be had for the vast majority of the unemployed.

I know of one local company who has had staff shortages for months and has been advertising constantly. They are struggling to fill the positions and even when they invite people for interviews they dont turn up.

Of course there are areas that are not like this but there are jobs if your willing to roll up your sleeves and do something that you might normally consider beneath you. I would rather do that, than receive benefits while sat at home doing nothing. I am not saying that all the unemployed are lazy like this but the percentage is higher than most would think. I would prefer that the true people who need the help got more than those who can hep themselves continued to get supported for contributing nothing.

 

[GortonBorn]

Lol at Luxury items - Myself and 8K others who worked in the Infrastructure (IT) of the Banking business in Yorkshire were made redundant in 2007! We had no notice and no rights as we were Contractors! Have you ever looked seriously at what the Government gives you as a married man with a mortgage, kids and a Wife that works! A big fat ZERO!! We lost everything as a result of a year without me working - thankfully I have pulled myself and my Family back into the real world as a result of retraining and hard work setting up a renewables business. Dont think its a life of Riley out there Folks because you are mistaken - Luxury Goods? Dont be stupid!

Totally agree. The government has made it too easy not to work and actually have a good standard of living.

In America they have food and clothes stamps. Those on benefits can only use them for that purpose. In the UK, they are given money to spend on what they choose (usually luxury items).

I'm just in the middle of reading Alan Sugars Biography...If you could sell the ambition he had in a tin the country would be sorted in a day!

 

[Scousejock]

Lol at Luxury items - Myself and 8K others who worked in the Infrastructure (IT) of the Banking business in Yorkshire were made redundant in 2007! We had no notice and no rights as we were Contractors! Have you ever looked seriously at what the Government gives you as a married man with a mortgage, kids and a Wife that works! A big fat ZERO!! We lost everything as a result of a year without me working - thankfully I have pulled myself and my Family back into the real world as a result of retraining and hard work setting up a renewables business. Dont think its a life of Riley out there Folks because you are mistaken - Luxury Goods? Dont be stupid!

I dont think anyone is talking about people that were put into your position. The reference was regarding the many people who dont work and do not want to work.

 

[Podge]

Stop talking sense Gortonborn people don't want to hear it.

 

Yup its the life of riley on benefits:

http://www.poverty.org.uk/summary/key facts.shtml

Earl

 

[Scousejock]

I must be in the minority. I could name more people that I know who are on benefits by choice and who could work but chose not to than I could people who are on benefits who are actually looking for employment.

I am not in any way putting down those people who are in a bad position due to the economy and yes there are a lot of them. I have a family member in that position myself. BUT there are lots of people who are not working simply because they can have as much income by not working. If you think that they are not a massive drain on our economy and taking benefits away from those who actually need help and are more deserving so be it.

As for a previous comment I am from scotland but moved to england with family when younger because of the lack of employment in the highlands. I know not everyone can do that but if it is to improve your lifestyle it is a choice that we as a family made. I was not alone in doing this many people HAD to move to areas of more opportunity.

Despite me thinking I could do better I have in the past done work from dishwasher and labouring to bar work if I have found myself out of work. That was a choice I made as I would rather work for a living. I also found that it helped me get work more in my field as employers seen it as a positive that I was prepared to roll up my sleeves and do some dirty work to bring in a wage rather than sit at home.

 

[Podge]

Interesting earl, thanks for the link.

Although I could be classed as living in poverty I don't see it that way. I've always been a "relatively" low earner so things like meals out, trips around the world or even around the country, visits to big events "olympics" and such have always been above my radar.

This isn't a moan, I'm happy with my lot in life and don't miss what I've never had. I've never expected to have more than food in my belly and a roof over my head.

 

[Podge]

Scousejock I agree with your sentiments but times have changed. It's a big ask to move yourself and family across the country for a minimum wage job with no job security and still need to claim benefits to survive. How exactly have you improved your lot in life? Yes you may have gained little self respect but at what cost.

I would agree that somebody with no ties could do this but for a family it's just not practical. Another thing to bear in mind is the cost implication. Genuine claimants by and large have absolutely no disposable income, where do they find the money to travel halfway across the country for an interview. I don't doubt some on here will see this as a negative attitude, I'm just looking at the reality of the people in this situation.

 

Interesting earl, thanks for the link.

Although I could be classed as living in poverty I don't see it that way. I've always been a "relatively" low earner so things like meals out, trips around the world or even around the country, visits to big events "olympics" and such have always been above my radar.

This isn't a moan, I'm happy with my lot in life and don't miss what I've never had. I've never expected to have more than food in my belly and a roof over my head.

Quite one of the secrets to being happy is being content with what you have.

Man works to live,not lives to work.

Most people it seems to me live in a future when they have obtained all that they want.

Well that never happens,believe me.

carpe diem.

Earl

 

[Scousejock]

Scousejock I agree with your sentiments but times have changed. It's a big ask to move yourself and family across the country for a minimum wage job with no job security and still need to claim benefits to survive. How exactly have you improved your lot in life? Yes you may have gained little self respect but at what cost.

I would agree that somebody with no ties could do this but for a family it's just not practical. Another thing to bear in mind is the cost implication. Genuine claimants by and large have absolutely no disposable income, where do they find the money to travel halfway across the country for an interview. I don't doubt some on here will see this as a negative attitude, I'm just looking at the reality of the people in this situation.

I was still at school when we moved from Inverness to somerset. So we were a family and we moved. We had no income to pay for the move but I believe there was some assistance with removal costs and we borrowed money which my father then repaid from his new income. My father was a tradesman and not on high wages so even by moving down we were not exactly flush but what did we gain. Self Respect. That is worth more than most things in life. As I said I am obviously in the minority and dont think things should just be handed out. I would much rather give more to the deserving.

 

[Scousejock]

It's a big ask to move yourself and family across the country for a minimum wage job with no job security and still need to claim benefits to survive.

Why is it a big ask for someone to be expected to earn the money they receive rather than have it handed to them. As I have done exactly what you say is a big ask (and yes it was difficult. I was 14 when I moved and settling into a new school in england with a thick a broad accent from scotland is not easy) Thats the problem tho life is not always going to be easy and people have to accept that sometime we have to make sacrifices to achieve what we want.

 

[scm5436]

Why is it a big ask for someone to be expected to earn the money they receive rather than have it handed to them.

Indeed, it's only a big ask because the welfare system gives them an easier option. I've also moved hundreds of miles away from my family to live near to London for the simple reason that "that's where the jobs are".

If people really want to pull themselves out of poverty then they will have to work hard at it, and maybe make a few sacrifices along the way.

 

[Scousejock]

Indeed, it's only a big ask because the welfare system gives them an easier option. I've also moved hundreds of miles away from my family to live near to London for the simple reason that "that's where the jobs are".

If people really want to pull themselves out of poverty then they will have to work hard at it, and maybe make a few sacrifices along the way.

Totally agree. No one should get a pat on the back for doing what it takes to work it should be what everyone does.
I have one friend who is having to work overseas right now away from his wife and children because there is no work in his sector in the UK. He hates it but it pays the bills so it is a sacrifice he is willing to take.

 

[Podge]

Totally agree. No one should get a pat on the back for doing what it takes to work it should be what everyone does.
I have one friend who is having to work overseas right now away from his wife and children because there is no work in his sector in the UK. He hates it but it pays the bills so it is a sacrifice he is willing to take.

I bet he's not working for minimum wage.

You mentioned in an earlier post that you move to improve your lot in life. How does somebody moving across the country to a minimum wage job with no prospects and still needing to claim benefits to survive have their lot in life improved?

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Maybe I see the people behind the statistics rather than looking at them as a drain on the countries resources. If we had full or near as damn it employment I would give give your viewpoint more credence.

 

[Scousejock]

It depends on if you are happy to be a drain on our economy and are not really bothered if you put anything into it.

We moved the length of the country because my father was not happy to live off benefits while he wasnt working. So although we moved and still had to claim a degree of benefits he could then be happy in the knowledge that he was doing his best and not just being a sponge off the system.

No my friend does not work overseas for minimum wage but that is not why he has done it. He would rather be providing for his family himself that rely on others to do it for him.

you will NEVER have 0 unemployment for the very reason we are discussing. Because there are lots of people that dont want to work. As I said before I know someone who is desperate for staff but struggling to find people. Yes it is a relatively low paid job but surely that must be better than no job at all unless you have no self respect.

If he is struggling for staff how can there justifiably be any unemployed people living in his area?????

 

[Podge]

It depends on if you are happy to be a drain on our economy and are not really bothered if you put anything into it.

We moved the length of the country because my father was not happy to live off benefits while he wasnt working. So although we moved and still had to claim a degree of benefits he could then be happy in the knowledge that he was doing his best and not just being a sponge off the system.

No my friend does not work overseas for minimum wage but that is not why he has done it. He would rather be providing for his family himself that rely on others to do it for him.

you will NEVER have 0 unemployment for the very reason we are discussing. Because there are lots of people that dont want to work. As I said before I know someone who is desperate for staff but struggling to find people. Yes it is a relatively low paid job but surely that must be better than no job at all unless you have no self respect.

If he is struggling for staff how can there justifiably be any unemployed people living in his area?????

How about your unemployed relative ?

 

[Scousejock]

How about your unemployed relative ?

What about him?

I have 2. One that receives benefits never done a days work in his life and in my opinion should not receive any benefits. What he needs is a kick up the ass so HE can sort his life out because he is the only one that can make it happen.

Another who does not work so he can look after his seriously disabled partner. He has worked in the past. BUT he has not claimed any benefits thinking that it will effect the small amount of disablity his partner gets. hence they have been living on no real income eating badly and run up debt. We only just become aware of their situation and have given them some advice and help and they are meeting with the CAB. Should they receive more help YES.

 

[Podge]

"I am not in any way putting down those people who are in a bad position due to the economy and yes there are a lot of them. I have a family member in that position myself."

My appologies I took it from this that your relative was looking for work.

 

[Scousejock]

"I am not in any way putting down those people who are in a bad position due to the economy and yes there are a lot of them. I have a family member in that position myself."

My appologies I took it from this that your relative was looking for work.

Sorry yes I do have another relative currently looking for work, I wasnt thinking about him as he does not live in my area.

Do you mean he should move to obtain one of the jobs that I know of in my area. Yes this is something he should think of doing and in fact he is looking at jobs in a very wide area and will relocate if he needs to. He has not expanded his search fiend this far just yet but if he does not find work soon he will indeed do this.

 

[Click2Post.co.uk]

I DISAGREE: At present it is actually more financially beneficial to have a mortgage than it is to rent. MortgageStrategy.co.uk estimates that it is actually £100 cheaper per month to buy a house rather than renting one. For more information click here

Sadly, I strongly disagree with you.

Staggering house price inflation has created an asset and credit bubble which has destroyed this country. Does society benefit from house price inflation? NO!

Buying is not cheap, and certainly not cheaper when you factor in future events....
negative equity, interest rate rises (300 year low), saving for a deposit, house repairs and portability.

I urge anybody, especially young people not to buy into this ponzi scheme. Wait 3-5 years, prices are only going south

 

[90DC]

I posted on this thread a couple of days ago to say how certain walks of life believe work is above them.

I was watching the news today and would like to shed light on something else and that is the news coming out that 'economists' are calling for the 50p tax rate to be scrapped.

Whilst I am no economist, I think that this temporary tax rate should stop in either it's current form, or changed slightly. George Osborne should not bow to pressure from his economist friends, who say that business will move abroad etc.

The 20 economists putting pressure on the Chancellor say that the 50p tax rate is 'damaging growth' and 'failing to generate significant revenues'. I cannot fathom how having a 50p tax band is 'failing to generate significant revenues', and I think that the economy is not about protecting 'big business', it is instead about backing small business and by generating permanent jobs in some form or another for those out of work, desperate to find work.

I fall somewhere in the higher rate of earnings, but have a chance to, and would love to earn in excess of £150k a year, and unlike these economists, I wouldn't mind paying the additional tax rate that comes with the figure, knowing that my good fortune is going towards helping those in society who have fallen into hardship because of mistakes made from forces way out of their control.

The government should strongly consider a lower rate of tax, or a scrap on tax for those earning lowly wages who feel the pinch from increasing energy prices, who struggle to put food on the table for their children, who it would not be viable for one person to go to work as childcare costs are sky high and for those people who it would be more beneficial to them to spend time on state benefits.

Helping this economy and society does not mean helping the priveliged who have worked to find themselves on £150,000 a year. It is about helping the hundreds of thousands of families stuck in what we call 'poverty' at the bottom end of the scale.

And that is why I don't like economists.

 

[Mustaka]

90DC,

Are you living in lala land. The first paycheck/divident, sale of company that pushed you into the 50% and you held your tax bill I know exactly what you would do as I did it myself. You would look for ways to legally minimize your tax exposure.

There is tax avoidance which is illegal and tax minimization which is perfectly legal.

Look at Google for example. They have paid the princely sum of 8m in UK tax on circa 20bn GBP turnover. Or Microsoft who ship their own product into Dubai to a holding company who then sells their own products back to their American wing at slightly less than retail. Thus holding taxable profit well offshore. They only pay tax on what they bring back into the taxable region. Apple's recent acquisition had nothing to do with patents, it was a tax write off.

My point being that the 50p tax is useless. When, and I really hope you do, reach the 50p bracket the extra money you are paying out I 100% guarantee you will want to keep said money in your family and any half decent tax lawyer will tell you many ways you can do it.

Logic for why it is a useless tax rate is it costs the country exactly the same for me and you to live in this country. IE medical, using roads, rubbish disposal, education, etc as it costs anyone else. So why should I have to pay many multiple times more to live here because I bring home more money than the person next door?

I think the point of this thread is how to get rid of the scroungers and keep those of us actually building demand for gainful employment in the country by not taxing us to death.