High Finance

[Fagin2021]

With apologies to Harry Belafonte - I'm at a loose end tonight...

There's a hole in my budget dear Boris, dear Boris,

There’s a hole in my budget dear Boris , a hole.

So fix it dear Rishi, dear Rishi, dear Rishi,

So fix it dear Rishi, dear Rishi, fix it.

With what should I fix it, dear Boris, dear Boris,

With what should I fix it dear Boris, with what ?

With money, dear Rishi, dear Rishi, dear Rishi,

With money dear Rishi, dear Rishi, with money.

We ain't got none, dear Boris, dear Boris, dear Boris,

We ain't got none, dear Boris, dear Boris, no dosh.

Then print some dear Rishi, dear Rishi, dear Rishi,

Then print some dear Rishi, dear Rishi, print some.

We’ve done that dear Boris, dear Boris, dear Boris,

We’ve done that dear Boris, dear Boris, QE.

Then borrow dear Rishi, dear Rishi, dear Rishi,

Then borrow dear Rishi, dear Rishi, borrow.

We’re maxed out dear Boris, dear Boris, dear Boris,

We’re maxed out dear Boris, dear Boris, maxed out.

Then tax them dear Rishi, dear Rishi, dear Rishi,

Then tax them dear Rishi, dear Rishi, tax them.

On what should I tax them dear Boris dear Boris,

On what should I tax them, dear Boris, on what ?

You’re f***ing Chancellor, dear Rishi, dear Rishi,

You’re f***ing Chancellor, dear Rishi, for now.

It won’t sway the voters, dear Boris, dear Boris,

It won’t sway the voters, dear Boris, we’re doomed.

Then bribe them dear Rishi, dear Rishi, dear Rishi,

Then bribe them dear Rishi, dear Rishi, bribe them.

But how will I bribe them dear Boris, dear Boris,

But how will I bribe them dear Boris, how ?

With tax cuts, dear Rishi, dear Rishi, dear Rishi,

With tax cuts dear Rishi, dear Rishi, tax cuts.

There’s a hole in my budget dear Boris, dear Boris,

There’s a hole in my budget dear Boris , a hole

 

[japancool]

Here's a radical proposal.

The Government could halve fuel duty, instantly dropping petrol prices by 28p ex VAT per litre. That could almost all be paid for by eliminating the foreign aid budget.

Yes, that would upset activists, who go on about Britain's historic obligations, and internationalists who talk about the aid budget being "soft power". Well, those historic obligations will no doubt still be there when the economic crisis is over. And those aid recipients have had quite a lot of time to get their own house in order. Perhaps it's time they started making their own ends meet, rather than siphoning aid money into the pockets of kleptocrats.

And "soft power"? What the heck is that, anyway? Votes in the UN? Support on the world stage? What does the UK receive in return for aid to Somalia, Yemen, Afghanistan (3 of the top 5 recipients of UK aid)? Pakistan is another of the top 5. It has a military budget of around $7 billion. Why does it need British aid? China is buying up vast amounts of African property, making a return on its investments and tying those economies up with its own. THAT'S soft power.

The government spends some £150 million a year on PR. I can't find a figure for how much it spends on diversity, but the NHS alone spends around £7 million on diversity officers, never mind diversity training.

And remember the £37 billion Test & Trace programme? Well, in the first 12 months, it reached around 7 million contacts and spent £15 billion. For those of you who are mathematically challenged, that's over £2000 per contact reached. And it still failed to prevent Covid outbreaks or mitigate the need for lockdowns.

Oh, and as a final thought - UK government VAT receipts for 2021-22 were up by £28 billion compared to 2019-20, the highest on record. And yet the government still felt the need to increase NI.

 

[WaveJumper]

Whilst you were composing I was reading this ..... sober reading. maybe in this thread we should list all the figures we can find and then depress ourselves further by adding it all up.

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/127/public-accounts-committee/news/161243/government-has-risked-lost-unacceptable-billions-of-taxpayers-money-in-its-covid-response-and-must-account-to-the-generations-that-will-pay-for-it/

 

[Mark T Jones]

Great song!

From the title I was expe ting some reference to the behavior of many of my colleagues (not me, obviously) in the '80s

 

[Financial-Modeller]

Here's a radical proposal.

The Government could halve fuel duty, instantly dropping petrol prices by 28p ex VAT per litre. That could almost all be paid for by eliminating the foreign aid budget.

Yes, that would upset activists, who go on about Britain's historic obligations, and internationalists who talk about the aid budget being "soft power". Well, those historic obligations will no doubt still be there when the economic crisis is over. And those aid recipients have had quite a lot of time to get their own house in order. Perhaps it's time they started making their own ends meet, rather than siphoning aid money into the pockets of kleptocrats.

And "soft power"? What the heck is that, anyway? Votes in the UN? Support on the world stage? What does the UK receive in return for aid to Somalia, Yemen, Afghanistan (3 of the top 5 recipients of UK aid)? Pakistan is another of the top 5. It has a military budget of around $7 billion. Why does it need British aid? China is buying up vast amounts of African property, making a return on its investments and tying those economies up with its own. THAT'S soft power.

The government spends some £150 million a year on PR. I can't find a figure for how much it spends on diversity, but the NHS alone spends around £7 million on diversity officers, never mind diversity training.

And remember the £37 billion Test & Trace programme? Well, in the first 12 months, it reached around 7 million contacts and spent £15 billion. For those of you who are mathematically challenged, that's over £2000 per contact reached. And it still failed to prevent Covid outbreaks or mitigate the need for lockdowns.

Oh, and as a final thought - UK government VAT receipts for 2021-22 were up by £28 billion compared to 2019-20, the highest on record. And yet the government still felt the need to increase NI.

IMO there is virtually no chance of govt cutting fuel duty because:

• Covid etc needs paying for and raising taxes is politically undesireable
• it's helping with the green agenda
• whilst the population complains about the cost of fuel, most of the population continues to buy it!

A slight aside but I drove from Gloucestershire to Anglesey on Friday via Herefordshire and Snowdonia. There was loads of traffic all the way, almost all leisure, so almost all paid for out of discetionary expenditure.

A debate with colleagues suggests if the price of fuel doubled, most wouldn't change driving habits much. If the government shares that opinion, there is little reason to reduce it.

 

[Newchodge]

Covid etc needs paying for and raising taxes is politically undesireable

It may have escaped your notice but personal taxes have risen every year since at least 2019 (can't be bothered to look up the earlier figures).

In April 2019 the basic personal tax free allowance was £12500. That increased in April 2021 to £12570, where it will remain to the end of this Paliament (allegedly). Failure to increase the tax free allowance creates a tax increase.

In April 2022 the employee's NI rate increased from 12% to 13.25%, described by this government as a 1.25% increase, actually a 10.5% increase. From July the lowest paid will no longer pay NI, but they have already paid the increased rate from April to June, and cannot recover that.

Employer's NI has also increased drastically, without an increase on the NI free amount.

 

[WaveJumper]

Great song!

From the title I was expe ting some reference to the behavior of many of my colleagues (not me, obviously) in the '80s

It its a song and has a "refrain" perhaps we should refrain from listening to our politicians ?

 

[The Byre]

IMO there is virtually no chance of govt cutting fuel duty because:

• Covid etc needs paying for and raising taxes is politically undesireable
• it's helping with the green agenda
• whilst the population complains about the cost of fuel, most of the population continues to buy it!

You missed another three -

• Derrick has glued his dumb-arsed face to the M25 again!
• There's that hysterical 16-year-old school girl shouting at us.
• Boris said he wouldn't.

In late-breaking news - Boris has had to have nose surgery following a severe attack of what doctors described as Pinocchio-istus!

 

[japancool]

IMO there is virtually no chance of govt cutting fuel duty

Oh, I entirely agree. Just because it makes economic sense, it doesn't mean a government - especially one whose finances are in as bad shape as this one's - will ever do it.

 

[japancool]

• There's that hysterical 16-year-old school girl shouting at us.

She's not even British, dammit!

 

[DontAsk]

Failure to increase the tax free allowance creates a tax increase.

How does that work?

 

[The Byre]

How does that work?

Inflation.

 

[japancool]

In April 2022 the employee's NI rate increased from 12% to 13.25%, described by this government as a 1.25% increase, actually a 10.5% increase.

Now, now, let's not exaggerate. It's actually only a 10.417% increase.

 

[Mark T Jones]

IMO there is virtually no chance of govt cutting fuel duty because:

• Covid etc needs paying for and raising taxes is politically undesireable
• it's helping with the green agenda
• whilst the population complains about the cost of fuel, most of the population continues to buy it!

A slight aside but I drove from Gloucestershire to Anglesey on Friday via Herefordshire and Snowdonia. There was loads of traffic all the way, almost all leisure, so almost all paid for out of discetionary expenditure.

A debate with colleagues suggests if the price of fuel doubled, most wouldn't change driving habits much. If the government shares that opinion, there is little reason to reduce it.

The reason I tend to stay out of these discussions is because they usually revolve around each individual focusing on a micro aspect of the macro economy to 'prove' their point.

Fuel is a fantastic case in point - big, photogenic price banners, lots of different people to point fingers of blame at and a product everyone can relate to. Hey presto - lots of copy sold!

My opinion, for what it's worth is that Government shouldn't cut fuel taxes. Nor should they interfere in pricing of anything, unless there is clear evidence of manipulation or abuse of monopoly.

Specific to fuel, there are a few sectors which are disproportionately hit by price rises - it's possible that they can receive help (just watch other sectors moan if that happens).

The overwhelming majority of individuals could reduce their fuel spend to below pre-rise levels if they were prepared to put themselves out a bit and rethink their vehicles, lifestyle and habits. That would make it far easier to help those in genuine hardship.

 

[DontAsk]

Inflation.

Well, if allowances stay the same, tax only increases if pay increases.

 

[Financial-Modeller]

It may have escaped your notice but personal taxes have risen every year since at least 2019 (can't be bothered to look up the earlier figures).

In April 2019 the basic personal tax free allowance was £12500. That increased in April 2021 to £12570, where it will remain to the end of this Paliament (allegedly). Failure to increase the tax free allowance creates a tax increase.

In April 2022 the employee's NI rate increased from 12% to 13.25%, described by this government as a 1.25% increase, actually a 10.5% increase. From July the lowest paid will no longer pay NI, but they have already paid the increased rate from April to June, and cannot recover that.

Employer's NI has also increased drastically, without an increase on the NI free amount.

Japancool mentioned fuel duty.

I responded about fuel duty.

Japancool agreed.

Whilst factually correct, your notes on Income tax and NI are not particularly relevant.

 

[Newchodge]

Well, if allowances stay the same, tax only increases if pay increases.

If pay doesn't increase and prices go up, pay cannot buy what it could, so pay increases happen, even if only small ones. The failure to increase tax free allowances annually has brought a lot of low paid people into paying income tax for the first time.

 

[Newchodge]

Well, if allowances stay the same, tax only increases if pay increases.

And it hits the higher earners as well. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61996117

 

[fisicx]

Has fuel prices gone up? Haven't really noticed. The car gets filled up once a month. Last time we had only used about half a tank. Walk to the supermarket and dusted off the bike for longer trips. Wife takes the train into London and I work from home. So the car hardly gets used.

As @Mark T Jones said, adjust your lifestyle and you can save a load of money.

Made a shepherds pie on Tuesday, it's lasted three days with difference veggies each day. Total cost: under a tenner. It's not difficult to cut down on costs.

 

[Ian J]

• whilst the population complains about the cost of fuel, most of the population continues to buy it!

Especially the poor mothers who can't walk their children the half mile to school every day so need to keep the Range Rover fueled up

 

[fisicx]

Especially the poor mothers who can't walk their children the half mile to school every day so need to keep the Range Rover fueled up

The school opposite us has a catchment of about a mile. Almost every child is delivered by car. And most of those are Surrey tractors. They all queue up to park in front of the school gates so they don’t have to walk at all.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Especially the poor mothers who can't walk their children the half mile to school every day so need to keep the Range Rover fueled up

And a poor 'entrepreneur ' on LinkedIn complaining that it now costs him £130 to fill his £70k Range Rover

 

[IanSuth]

The school opposite us has a catchment of about a mile. Almost every child is delivered by car. And most of those are Surrey tractors. They all queue up to park in front of the school gates so they don’t have to walk at all.

HOWEVER

My children were taken to primary by car which was only 1/2 a mile but that was as it was almost on the route to my wife's work and meant she could throw them out and drive on to work starting at 9.30, if she walked them there and home before driving to school it would have needed to be a 10am start. Had to go into the school grounds and drop off as the rest of the road is dyl no loading with regular blitzes by the parking wardens

That is normal here, the non working mums are the walkers and the ones in cars are usually straight off to work after, at the end of the day it was a fleet of child minders in Galaxy's and the like collecting a brood of children to mind until 6pm.

(however she was using a Skoda Octavia diesel estate not a RR)