1st Class postage vs First Class Recorded

[Slinkie]

Hi Folks,

I am trying to decide how best to send out items I will be selling from my website.

I want to know how beneficial it is to me to send out items recorded rather than just sending them first class. Obviously it covers my back if customers claim that packages weren't delivered and I can prove otherwise or claim back from the post office if it has got lost.

However, the items I will be selling are going to be around £10 so is it worth the extra cost of paying for the items to be recorded and also is it worth my time having to queue up in the post office to get them sent recorded.

All my items are around the same size and weight (like a dvd) and so the postage should be the same for all. They will be sent in small jiffy bags.
Can I pay for postage/ stamps to send them without having to go through the post office. Obviously I can't attach stamps to them but can I bnuy first class postage stamps for a uniformed size jiffy bag?

Sorry if this is a ramble.

Bullet points:
Recorded vs non recorded delivery pros and cons
Can I pre buy postage for a uniformed size jiffy bag in advance so I don't have to go to the post office for each item I want to send.

Thanks all

Matt

 

[skyhi2]

Personally i only send by recorded delivery.

People are generally very impressed when you send them a tracking number.

You can download stamps from the post office site,and if you have lots of recorded delivery tags to hand it can be a simple process to fill them in and then get them stamped @ the post office.

I do not know what you advertise as your delivery time on your website ( did you catch the thread about 3-5 days ? ),but as a rule its next day if you post early enough ( although not guaranteed ).

But at least it is signed for which saves a lot of hassle,rather than 1st class,not signed for.

Just my 2 cents.

Skyhi2.

 

[sysops]

Sending recorded delivery is foolish and pointless.

It doesn't "cover your back" at all - there is always the "it wasn't me who signed" defence.

You can claim for non-recorded mail anyway, so it doesn't help in that respect (but it is never worth claiming for the 0.05% of parcels you lose).

You will pay out a huge amount of money for no gain. Let's look at the numbers over 1000 parcels:

1. I send 1000 RM 1st Class Packets. They are worth £20 each, and they weigh 100g each. They cost me £1.28 each, or £1280 total. I lose one of them. Total cost is £1280 + £20 = £1300. I can claim for that one if I want, but I won't.

2. I send 1000 RM 1st Class Packets Recorded. They are worth £20 each, and they weigh 100g each. They cost me £2.03 each. I lose one of them. Total cost is £2030 + £20 = £2050. I can claim for that one if I want, but I won't.

With scenario 2, I'm £700 worse off, and a much larger percentage of my customers will have had to collect from their RM depot, because they weren't in when delivery was attempted.

 

[Slinkie]

Thats excellent about downloading postage labels from the post office website. I will look into that.

As for recorded, how much extra does it cost? Also, is it really much more convenient? The items I will be selling are dvd sized and so will easily be able to be posted through letter boxes by the postman. If no one was in to recieve it it would be posted without a signature. However, if it is signed for then the package would be taken back to the depot meaning the customer would need to go out of their way to pick it up.

 

[Slinkie]

Sending recorded delivery is foolish and pointless.

It doesn't "cover your back" at all - there is always the "it wasn't me who signed" defence.

You can claim for non-recorded mail anyway, so it doesn't help in that respect (but it is never worth claiming for the 0.05% of parcels you lose).

You will pay out a huge amount of money for no gain. Let's look at the numbers over 1000 parcels:

1. I send 1000 RM 1st Class Packets. They are worth £20 each, and they weigh 100g each. They cost me £1.28 each, or £1280 total. I lose one of them. Total cost is £1280 + £20 = £1300. I can claim for that one if I want, but I won't.

2. I send 1000 RM 1st Class Packets Recorded. They are worth £20 each, and they weigh 100g each. They cost me £2.03 each. I lose one of them. Total cost is £2030 + £20 = £2050. I can claim for that one if I want, but I won't.

With scenario 2, I'm £700 worse off, and a much larger percentage of my customers will have had to collect from their RM depot, because they weren't in when delivery was attempted.

Thanks for that.

The one thing I am worried about with non recorded is what is to stop the customer claiming they haven't received the package and I have no proof since it isn't recorded.

 

[James.Dunford]

Thanks for that.

The one thing I am worried about with non recorded is what is to stop the customer claiming they haven't received the package and I have no proof since it isn't recorded.

They say they didn't sign for it, it was someone else, left with a neighbour etc. The thing is, sending via Recorded has the same chance of getting lost as a standard parcel, they go through the same system, just means you get a tracking number - which you can only track when it has been delivered!

As has been said, you have more chance of loosing a Recorded item anyway, as the postie may forget to put a leaflet in, the buyer may forget etc.

 

[skyhi2]

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,the customer pays sysops, you do not subsidise the customer.

75p Slinkie,gives you up to £39.00 compensation.

BTW Slinkie,you could always give them a choice.

It`s your decision after weighing up the pros and cons.

Skyhi2.

 

[MH1]

I only send recorded delivery as well, nothing to do with cost, has everything to do with freeing up your time not chasing loads of missing orders, I tried both methods, and non recorded resulted in 5-10% of clients claiming non delivery.

In the last year I sent 2800 shipments by recorded delivery, not one client has claimed non delivery, saves myself hours of trouble each week.

Why not split test both versions? 200 shipments by both methods then decide.

 

[Slinkie]

I only send recorded delivery as well, nothing to do with cost, has everything to do with freeing up your time not chasing loads of missing orders, I tried both methods, and non recorded resulted in 5-10% of clients claiming non delivery.

In the last year I sent 2800 shipments by recorded delivery, not one client has claimed non delivery, saves myself hours of trouble each week.

Why not split test both versions? 200 shipments by both methods then decide.

What size are the packages you send? I can see how recorded can be seen as preferential when you are sending items that can't be posted through a letter box. In these case if the customer is not in they need to go an pick the item up from the depot whether it was recorded or not so there is no real inconvenience in sending the item recorded or not.

However, the majority of items I will be selling will be able to be posted through the letter box. This way the customer will have the package delivered whether they are in or out. By adding recorded to it although it gives me protection I am more worried that it would inconvieniece custoers who need to collect the item from a depot when it could have just been posted through the door

 

[MH1]

I send various sizes, but mainly items too large to go through letter boxes.

End of the day you need to decide what your business requires, does it require a signature or not? Even if your items fit through a letter box the bulk should get a signature, a few might not but that is something to talk to RM about.

 

[sysops]

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,the customer pays sysops, you do not subsidise the customer.

Nonsense.

Does the customer pay your rent? Rates? Gas? Salaries? Yes - but you don't split each one off as a separate cost in the sale, do you.

75p Slinkie,gives you up to £39.00 compensation.

Which you can have on a 1st class stamp anyway, making it recorded doesn't increase or decrease the compensation level. It's just not worth claiming.

BTW Slinkie,you could always give them a choice.

Wow, you are on a roll with the bad advice.

 

[Simon12]

In the last year I have sent around 200 items a day non recorded and around 1-2 a day goes missing. I don't use recorded for 2 reasons firstly in costs I think 75p so unless the items are worth over £75 (my costs range from £5-£24) it is cheaper just to send a replacement every time no questions asked. Secondly its less time consuming as there is no need to enter the address. I must admit though some customers do get annoyed that the items are not recorded as if they are delayed in the post you can't prove you even posted them. If your volumes are large enough I recommend you use packet post as it is cheaper and you can just stamp every jiffy bag with the same rubber stamp.

 

[skyhi2]

Sysops

Ignoring the first comment you made as ludicrous

You can not get any compensation on a 1st class stamp unless you have a proof of posting certificate,ergo,join the queue and get one.

Then this would most likely be limited to 6 x 1st class stamps as your " "compensation".

Advice is what it is,good or bad to be decided by the OP,and not you

Skyhi2.

 

[sysops]

You can not get any compensation on a 1st class stamp unless you have a proof of posting certificate,ergo,join the queue and get one.

Seriously, you need to stop spouting nonsense and read up on some things.

I believe the OP is queuing at the post office anyway, so it's a moot point. But if he wasn't, if he was having a daily RM collection, he could make use of the Bulk Mail Compensation Scheme.

Then this would most likely be limited to 6 x 1st class stamps as your " "compensation".

Since he is queuing at the post office, he would receive:

What happens if your mail is lost?
If your mail gets lost, we’ll give you a minimum compensation of 12 First Class stamps. However, if there was something of value in your mail, we'll refund the actual loss, up to maximum value of 100 First Class stamps or up to the market value, whichever is the smaller amount. Please apply for this within 12 months.

But in any case, it is not worth claiming this, as the levels of loss are too low to matter. You're far better off putting your efforts elsewhere.

 

[Mister B]

I agree with Sysops wholeheartedly on this one.

When we first started out, we jused to sell items of a higher value by recorded delivery. Until...one went missing and we decided to claim for it. Now because "a" signature existed, regardless of "whose" signature, it meant that in the eyes of the RM, it had been delivered and we weren't even entitled to compensation.

Absolute waste of time.

Mister B

 

[Beachcomber]

Send recorded if you want to annoy your customers.

How many of us are in when the post comes? How many of us want to find that little red card telling us we need to drive to the nearest sorting office, pay for parking, queue for 36 years only to be told you don't have the right ID so have to come back tomorrow!

1st class is insured - a till receipt is accepted as proof of posting rather than needing individual receipts for each one.

If you are sending out alot of post, look into getting a PPI account - you can stamp your packages yourself and just drop the sack off at the post office / sorting office. You can pay your post online and you get a discount on standard postal charges so you will save about 20%
I used to have one of these accounts when selling online - saved lots of money, lots of time and lots of hassle.

 

[Slinkie]

Personally i only send by recorded delivery.

People are generally very impressed when you send them a tracking number.

You can download stamps from the post office site,and if you have lots of recorded delivery tags to hand it can be a simple process to fill them in and then get them stamped @ the post office.

I do not know what you advertise as your delivery time on your website ( did you catch the thread about 3-5 days ? ),but as a rule its next day if you post early enough ( although not guaranteed ).

But at least it is signed for which saves a lot of hassle,rather than 1st class,not signed for.

Just my 2 cents.

Skyhi2.

Hi,

I have decided to go with just first class and no recorded. I want to download the stamps/ postage from the post office website.

I just want to know exactly what I need in order to print out the postage from the post office website. I was going to just print out the postage onto a piece of paper and put it into one of these
http://www.macfarlanepackaging.com/documentwallets0297

Can I do this or do I need to print out onto a sticky label? This decision will help me decide what printer I want to buy. If I can't use the plastic wallets I'll get a laser printer as I have heard inkjet printing onto labels can smudge etc. If I use a wallet I'll just get an inkjet.

What's you best advice for this?

 

[JohnGrove]

I would strongly advise that if the volumes warrant it that you talk to Royal Mail about a business account and OBA as mentioned earlier. Downloading stamps is an expensive option.

With your own PPI you can print the indice as required and just fill in an online docket. It does require that you deliver the post to your local sorting office but the savings are quite substantial and remember that postage costs are increasing again soon.

Whilst there is no guarantee with recorded post, I use it on items over a certain value.

 

[KDMINX]

In the last year I have sent around 200 items a day non recorded and around 1-2 a day goes missing. I don't use recorded for 2 reasons firstly in costs I think 75p so unless the items are worth over £75 (my costs range from £5-£24) it is cheaper just to send a replacement every time no questions asked. Secondly its less time consuming as there is no need to enter the address. I must admit though some customers do get annoyed that the items are not recorded as if they are delayed in the post you can't prove you even posted them. If your volumes are large enough I recommend you use packet post as it is cheaper and you can just stamp every jiffy bag with the same rubber stamp.

0.5-1% going missing? You're doing well! I loose about 5% but then mine is DVD shaped (although worthless)!

 

[sysops]

0.5-1% going missing? You're doing well! I loose about 5% but then mine is DVD shaped (although worthless)!

That's insane, there is something seriously wrong there. Based on 80k sent last year, we lost just about 1 in 1000 (0.1%) rising to about twice that in Nov and Dec.

 

[KDMINX]

Sorting office near me is in the local news every now so often...

 

[skyhi2]

Have a look here Slinkie

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content3;jsessionid=Y5D3E3KRNDDXWFB2IGDEOSQUHRAYUQ2K?mediaId=57100694&catId=26800663

It explains everything you have to do.

You can print out your " stamp ", ( i say "stamp",but it is just printed on plain paper,and not a traditional,self adhesive one ) and it can include the full details of the customer ( name,address Etc ).

As you pointed out,you probably could get it to fit in to a "documents enclosed" mailer with a bit of tweaking,but you need to make sure all the details are visible.

It would probably look most professional too.

Skyhi2

 

[JohnGrove]

Have a look here Slinkie

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content3;jsessionid=Y5D3E3KRNDDXWFB2IGDEOSQUHRAYUQ2K?mediaId=57100694&catId=26800663

It explains everything you have to do.

You can print out your " stamp ", ( i say "stamp",but it is just printed on plain paper,and not a traditional,self adhesive one ) and it can include the full details of the customer ( name,address Etc ).

As you pointed out,you probably could get it to fit in to a "documents enclosed" mailer with a bit of tweaking,but you need to make sure all the details are visible.

It would probably look most professional too.

Skyhi2

As far as I'm aware this is still based on consumer postage rates which are considerably higher than business rates. There is a business alternative but this has a monthly charge attached to it.

It still believe that the most cost effective way is to register for an OBA account.

 

[Slinkie]

Have a look here Slinkie

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content3;jsessionid=Y5D3E3KRNDDXWFB2IGDEOSQUHRAYUQ2K?mediaId=57100694&catId=26800663

It explains everything you have to do.

You can print out your " stamp ", ( i say "stamp",but it is just printed on plain paper,and not a traditional,self adhesive one ) and it can include the full details of the customer ( name,address Etc ).

As you pointed out,you probably could get it to fit in to a "documents enclosed" mailer with a bit of tweaking,but you need to make sure all the details are visible.

It would probably look most professional too.

Skyhi2

Thanks for that.

I just need to decide what direction to take with the printer. If I were to print out labels and stick them to the envelopes then I'd get a laser printer but if I can go with the plastic wallets then I'd just go with an inkjet.

I am only anticipating small volumes as this is a venture outside my 9-5 so a laser + postage labels + receipts is going to cost be more over a low volume than inkjet + wallet.

 

[Slinkie]

As far as I'm aware this is still based on consumer postage rates which are considerably higher than business rates. There is a business alternative but this has a monthly charge attached to it.

It still believe that the most cost effective way is to register for an OBA account.

Is this advise for low volume, high volume or both?

 

[JohnGrove]

Is this advise for low volume, high volume or both?

This is where you need to speak to a Royal Mail advisor. It sounds to me that you would be best suited to Packet post daily rate which is based on approx. 5,000 large letters/packets per year. This gives one of the biggest discounts but may be a of a stretch for you at the moment.

Even if you get a standard tariff account, you will still get substantial discounts based on consumer prices.

It is a long time since I registered so criteria may have altered but it's worth checking with RM. When you do speak to them I would recommend that you are optimistic in your projected quantities. ;-)

 

[Christiane]

The OP said it's outside his 9-5 job so I doubt he can cope with PPI, he'd have to take his post to the depot by 6pm. Post Offices just never accept PPI post (tried a few times in the past, they always refused).

SmartStamp is normal postage rate but someone has to start somewhere. I did it for two years until I sent enough parcels to use PPI.

 

[skyhi2]

John is quite correct Slinkie.

I gave you the link for the basic,non business,no fuss,low volume ( but more expensive ) method.

If you are going to be posting a lot of mail you really would need to speak with someone from Royal Mail.

Skyhi2.