0% Finance on customer purchases, who is paying?

tan_lan

Free Member
  • Oct 7, 2014
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    Hi,

    If a retail business is offering 0% finance (via a finance provider), sometimes for as long as 60 months, who is paying for it?

    Is it the retailer or does the finance company recoup through fees/defaulters.

    I looked in some of the providers web sites but they are not transparent about the nature of the relationship.

    Thanks
    Tan
     
    If a retail business is offering 0% finance (via a finance provider), sometimes for as long as 60 months, who is paying for it?
    I love this question - and I happen to know the answer as I used to work for a furniture company that worked this wheeze (scam) back in the 60s.

    It's like this -

    STEP ONE - You are the furniture company and you import some cheap crappy stuff and mark it up for a silly high price and leave it in the catalog where nobody sees it or buys it. It sits there for the minimum period required by law.

    STEP TWO - Sales day and the 'Comfy-Down Majorette' is shipped out to all stores and displayed in the front window. It is sold for half the (bogus) list-price and people can buy it INTEREST-FREE AND WITH NO MONEY DOWN AND NO REPAYMENT for up to three years! Wow!

    STEP THREE - The credit agreement is signed by the customer with a credit company that happens to be owned by the same company that owns the shop (what a surprise!) What almost no customers never realise (I mean - who reads contracts! It's interest-free if you pay and we are going to pay, so who cares about the small print!) is that ALL the 25% interest becomes due for the ENTIRE three years if payment is late. And sometimes it ain't 25% but waaay higher and may even contain swingeing penalty clauses.

    STEP FOUR - The credit company is just a forwarding office for multiple such scams. There is no telephone number you can call and it does not seem to even have a bank account. That office moves regularly. If you have an address from three years ago, any cheques sent there will be returned 'Not known at this address.' Most retail customers are too gormless to look up the latest company address and in my day, they even thought that they could pay at the shop.

    STEP FIVE - If you really want to get funky and just to make life for customers a little bit more of a challenge, the credit company's assets are sold to a new credit company on a regular roll-over basis (and you'll never guess who owns the new company!) and that eventuality is of course covered in all contracts. Now try finding them!

    STEP SIX - The three years are up. A credit company you have never heard of sends you a statement of account. That statement says that the 'Comfy Down Majorette' that was listed at £1,000 and sold interest-free for £500 but is now long gone because it was hardly worth £200 is going to cost you £2,000.

    STEP SEVEN - After a flurry of letters and final demands, the credit company passes your 'case' to their 'legal' representatives (another bogus company) who now starts the threats at a whole new level and with added costs that seem to just mount-up. After a series of letters marked on the outside 'FINAL DEMAND' in red, you agree to pay for that £200 heap of junk that you no longer have about £100 a month until the full sum is paid.

    I have seen national chains of computer and TV/hi-fi shops do this in the UK. Furniture shops revel in this practice. It is very, very profitable!

    In my day, the entire scam operated from the High Street shop where I worked. In reality, we were the credit company, we were the 'legal' representatives - the lot! Desperate customers came in, asking for the address or details of the credit company or the real identity of those 'legal' representatives - and all the time, the pre-marked envelopes were upstairs in the storeroom.

    It was the manager's job to say that he had no control over head-office policy or the behaviour of the credit company. He would like to help, but he couldn't. It was also his job to send out those letters in a package to be put in the mail in Doncaster, Leeds, or wherever the bogus office was supposed to be.

    The same giant chain had three furniture stores on that High Street, all ostensibly competing with one another. One was the 'honest' shop. The others were total rip-offs.

    After a few weeks, I quit.
     
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    I love this question - and I happen to know the answer as I used to work for a furniture company that worked this wheeze (scam) back in the 60s.

    It's like this -

    STEP ONE - You are the furniture company and you import some cheap crappy stuff and mark it up for a silly high price and leave it in the catalog where nobody sees it or buys it. It sits there for the minimum period required by law.

    STEP TWO - Sales day and the 'Comfy-Down Majorette' is shipped out to all stores and displayed in the front window. It is sold for half the (bogus) list-price and people can buy it INTEREST-FREE AND WITH NO MONEY DOWN AND NO REPAYMENT for up to three years! Wow!

    STEP THREE - The credit agreement is signed by the customer with a credit company that happens to be owned by the same company that owns the shop (what a surprise!) What almost no customers never realise (I mean - who reads contracts! It's interest-free if you pay and we are going to pay, so who cares about the small print!) is that ALL the 25% interest becomes due for the ENTIRE three years if payment is late. And sometimes it ain't 25% but waaay higher and may even contain swingeing penalty clauses.

    STEP FOUR - The credit company is just a forwarding office for multiple such scams. There is no telephone number you can call and it does not seem to even have a bank account. That office moves regularly. If you have an address from three years ago, any cheques sent there will be returned 'Not known at this address.' Most retail customers are too gormless to look up the latest company address and in my day, they even thought that they could pay at the shop.

    STEP FIVE - If you really want to get funky and just to make life for customers a little bit more of a challenge, the credit company's assets are sold to a new credit company on a regular roll-over basis (and you'll never guess who owns the new company!) and that eventuality is of course covered in all contracts. Now try finding them!

    STEP SIX - The three years are up. A credit company you have never heard of sends you a statement of account. That statement says that the 'Comfy Down Majorette' that was listed at £1,000 and sold interest-free for £500 but is now long gone because it was hardly worth £200 is going to cost you £2,000.

    STEP SEVEN - After a flurry of letters and final demands, the credit company passes your 'case' to their 'legal' representatives (another bogus company) who now starts the threats at a whole new level and with added costs that seem to just mount-up. After a series of letters marked on the outside 'FINAL DEMAND' in red, you agree to pay for that £200 heap of junk that you no longer have about £100 a month until the full sum is paid.

    I have seen national chains of computer and TV/hi-fi shops do this in the UK. Furniture shops revel in this practice. It is very, very profitable!

    In my day, the entire scam operated from the High Street shop where I worked. In reality, we were the credit company, we were the 'legal' representatives - the lot! Desperate customers came in, asking for the address or details of the credit company or the real identity of those 'legal' representatives - and all the time, the pre-marked envelopes were upstairs in the storeroom.

    It was the manager's job to say that he had no control over head-office policy or the behaviour of the credit company. He would like to help, but he couldn't. It was also his job to send out those letters in a package to be put in the mail in Doncaster, Leeds, or wherever the bogus office was supposed to be.

    The same giant chain had three furniture stores on that High Street, all ostensibly competing with one another. One was the 'honest' shop. The others were total rip-offs.

    After a few weeks, I quit.

    We can confidently say that you worked for a dodgy furniture company way before the FCA got their teeth in
     
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    We can confidently say that you worked for a dodgy furniture company way before the FCA got their teeth in
    They sold more furniture than any other company in the UK.

    That scam still exists in milder forms today - more carefully structured but exist it does!

    It started raising its head in other countries, but the law making interest rates no higher than 8% or 12% above High Street bank rates (depending on which country or US state you are in) put the mockers on it.

    I have never understood why the FCA is not allowed to get similar controls - maybe the UK multiples have 'friends' in high places!
     
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    Mr D

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    Feb 12, 2017
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    Last few times I went to buy a sofa from these big name shops they have been quite aggressive with us about taking a 0% deal. I had money in the bank and paid up front on the credit card, much to the staff's annoyance.

    A certain amount of persuasiveness I will put up with in sales staff, bullying never.
     
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    Mr D

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    We can confidently say that you worked for a dodgy furniture company way before the FCA got their teeth in

    The likes of Bright Pearl et al operated similar. Though no need for company moving.
    And very much not 0%. Instead credit given to people who could not get credit elsewhere.
    I would say preying on the vulnerable except some preyed back.
     
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    Last few times I went to buy a sofa from these big name shops they have been quite aggressive with us about taking a 0% deal.
    If I remember rightly, we got about 2% commission on regular sales, but 5% on specially reduced items and an additional 5% for interest-free financing. That is how profitable that scam was!

    And it looks as if it still is that profitable!

    The reality is that at least half the punters forget to pay on time and all that exorbitant back-interest becomes due.

    The furniture/TV set/hi-fi is just the bait. The contract is the trap.
     
    Upvote 0
    They sold more furniture than any other company in the UK.

    That scam still exists in milder forms today - more carefully structured but exist it does!

    It started raising its head in other countries, but the law making interest rates no higher than 8% or 12% above High Street bank rates (depending on which country or US state you are in) put the mockers on it.

    I have never understood why the FCA is not allowed to get similar controls - maybe the UK multiples have 'friends' in high places!

    As someone who understands the market, I really wouldn't be concerned at signing a 0% agreement with a reputable retailer - obviously providing that I had chosen the goods, not the credit facility first

    The whole high-rate finance thing is a debate in its own right. It will certainly get a rid of the bottom end of the credit market, some argue it would deprive the poor of things they need

    Interestingly, from my days in collections, by far the biggest category of personal default was young lads from poor backgrounds who had found paid work - particularly soldiers the goods in question - not surprisingly were cars, motorbikes and electronics. Never furniture
     
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    The likes of Bright Pearl et al operated similar. Though no need for company moving.
    And very much not 0%. Instead credit given to people who could not get credit elsewhere.
    I would say preying on the vulnerable except some preyed back.

    In the days of payment meters, the meter was always attached to the telly as that was the one thing they wouldn't do without

    The huge challenge of doing away with high rate credit is that you will drive it underground, which gets very messy indeed!
     
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    Mr D

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    Feb 12, 2017
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    In the days of payment meters, the meter was always attached to the telly as that was the one thing they wouldn't do without

    The huge challenge of doing away with high rate credit is that you will drive it underground, which gets very messy indeed!

    The days of the guy on the doorstep to collect your money. Don't pay and the window gets smashed, next time its something more painful for you than a window.....
    And considerably high rate of interest.

    It goes on to a degree at the moment - its driven underground but is low level. Remove access to goods / money for the no credit people and it will flare up.

    One of my friends, her husband borrowed a bit of money from a web contact. Missed payments, she got a black eye. And a police caution - she hospitalised the collectors.
     
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    Mitch3473

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    Aug 25, 2011
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    In the days of payment meters, the meter was always attached to the telly as that was the one thing they wouldn't do without

    The huge challenge of doing away with high rate credit is that you will drive it underground, which gets very messy indeed!


    Those were the days... My first foray into the world of self employment was building up quite a substantial TV and then later video round using 50p coin slots....I could tell a few tales. Each TV cost me a tenner, £10 down as first payent and then 13 x 4 weekly ( monthly ??) payments. TV and meter paid for in the first month, good clients could have a video £25 a month. Empty meter, take rental, give client back the remainder. Granted the occasional TV got lobbed out of the window, clients did runners, threats were made, stunts were pulled, favours were asked etc etc. I learnt a lot.
     
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