Off-Site Backups - Important or Not?

N

NetwiseHosting

Whenever I speak with business owners (whether medium-sized local firms or large national corporations) I ask them if they employ any data backup solutions. Their automatic response is always 'yes'. They are telling the truth. They do backup their system. They often have a perfectly adequate hard drive, hard drive array or even a tape drive storage unit. Fine in most situations of course.

I then ask what they plan on doing when they lose all of their sensitive business and customer data in an office fire, in the middle of the night. Or a severe flood. Or even in an office raid by thieves for information gathering or simply for the value of the equipment. It is about now that they realise their current system only secures them against a local system failure. Let's face it, system failures are not nearly as common as they used to be - and even in the event of such a failure, recovering data is not too difficult regardless of how robust the local backup solution in place may be.


So the true answer to my question, in most cases, should be 'no'. A solution should be in place to prevent problems. A real solution should prevent all possible problems.

So off-site backups. What are they, and are they really that important?
Well I think the question of importance can be answered almost immediately. Yes they are, very important in fact. As a business, keeping your customers happy ranks highly in the upper echelon of factors central to ultimate success. Is it likely that customers will be happy hearing that your business, in the event of an office fire or such event, will lose all of your information; and be entirely unable to recover it? I'm guessing not. This will cause inconvenience for both the customer and the business. Not what you want on top of dealing with a major crisis like those mentioned.
Peace of mind is also important in running a smooth business. Knowing your data is safe off-site, regardless of local issues, is essential in your ability to relax as a business owner. Being safe in the knowledge that your back is covered should the unlikely happen is very reassuring.

And what are off-site backups? Well, I'm sure you are able to gather what they are from the name, or by deciphering the meaning through the above passages. In a nutshell, off-site backups are identical to backups - except of course that they are not stored locally. And if you don't know what backups are, they are simply copies of all system data that allow the system to be recovered back to its last healthy state in the event of an emergency.
Now back in the infancy of IT in the workplace, off-site backups used to require a man in a van driving to your office and picking up your tape drives to be stored in a large warehouse somewhere. Handy, but expensive, and not entirely effective. Pick-up intervals varied, meaning the last backup could be weeks or even months old. Not massively helpful then. But it worked, and when you don't know any better, you can complain.

Then the internet got fast. Not overnight, no, but it did. This revolutionized the backing up of data. Well, it revolutionized almost everything on Earth, but that's for another lifetime of writing. Backups could suddenly be completed remotely, with highly compressed packets of data sent over the net to the designated off-site backup site. This could happen at the end of every day, or even every hour if it is felt absolutely necessary. This data can then be recovered remotely should it be required. Simple.


Yes, backing up your critical business data is very important. All businesses should practice this technique, and with so many hosting firms offering cheap, scalable solutions to this problem, there is no excuse. Secure your business data today, before it's too late.


Originally posted at forums.netwisehosting.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=35
 
N

NetwiseHosting

Carbonite is a form of off-site backup. The solution you choose for your business is down to you, whether it be a RAID configured hard drive array like we offer, or an online panel-based system like Carbonite.
 
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T

Tritech IT

The BDR unit goes on the client site and their data backups up onto the unit. In addition it takes a snapshot of their server every 15 mins.

Overnight the data and snapshots are backed up to an offsite datacentre where they are stored and can be retrieved in the event of a disaster situation.

These snapshots can also be mounted and run from the BDR unit as a virtual environment to take the place of the physical server in the event of a hardware failure. This takes about 15 min and offers a fully managed business continuity solution.
 
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My problem with online backups are that they are only going to be as good as the company you pay to look after them.... and we all know how differing services can be online (look at some of the hosting nightmares).

There is a guy on here I'd trust, LeeMason, who provides this service.
 
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N

NetwiseHosting

My problem with online backups are that they are only going to be as good as the company you pay to look after them.... and we all know how differing services can be online (look at some of the hosting nightmares).

There is a guy on here I'd trust, LeeMason, who provides this service.

I do agree with you, it requires research. As long as you pick a suitable solution with a reputable company, your service should go uninterupted with solid support and reliability.
 
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I used to work for a company that used Iron Mountain for offsite tape backups. A guy would turn up in the morning with a briefcase and a tape in it (I think it was even strapped to his wrist!) A tape exchange was done, the previous nights backup was on one tape and the one the one for the following night was in the case. All very James Bond like...I assume pretty expensive though
 
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edmondscommerce

Free Member
Nov 11, 2008
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UK
My problem with online backups are that they are only going to be as good as the company you pay to look after them.... and we all know how differing services can be online (look at some of the hosting nightmares).

There is a guy on here I'd trust, LeeMason, who provides this service.

this is why i like jungle disk

its backed by rackspace and amazon S3 - two internet powerhouses that definitely aren't going anywhere.

For UK users the rackspace cloud option looks really quite cheap.
 
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Online backup solutions are only as good as your internet speed for downloading the data back again in the event of a disaster.

i.e. - anyone without a pretty serious internet link (most probably 99.99% of people here) will need to recover terabytes of data from something a little more likely to avoid putting the company out of action for a week or two whilst the backup is downloaded.

Mike.
 
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craiga1971

Free Member
Jan 7, 2010
339
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UK
Online backup solutions are only as good as your internet speed for downloading the data back again in the event of a disaster.

i.e. - anyone without a pretty serious internet link (most probably 99.99% of people here) will need to recover terabytes of data from something a little more likely to avoid putting the company out of action for a week or two whilst the backup is downloaded.

Mike.

An execllent point.

I use www.idrive.com and get 150GB for %4 pe rmonth. I'm restoring at the minute as I am mocvnig stuff between 2 different PC's. Restore (download) speed is not fun.

However, all data needs to be prioritised and the system designed around that.

If a SME employs, say, 50 people and a disaster strikes, there are going to be a key number of people who need their data/services restored before the rest.

In addition, there will be some systems that are more critical than others. Payroll/HR etc.. will be more critical than some historical financial system (used only to comply with 7 year rule)

Essentially there maybe, say, 5 Directors who will manage the relocation exercise (assuming it is a fire/flood issue).

Now if their data is stored under C:\DATA\AVIP (A VIP)

and everyone else is under

C:\DATA\NVIP (not a VIP)

then the restore process can ke kicked off first for C:\DATA\AVIP

Or, put the data into different categories like:

C:\DATA\PRIO1\
C:\DATA\PRIO2\
C:\DATA\PRIO3\

etc....

The problem is that the people who put the DR solution in place are rarely the people who built the system in the first place. So trying to shoe-horn a workable solution onto a system that has little or none properly defined standards can be difficult.

Craig
 
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My problem with online backups are that they are only going to be as good as the company you pay to look after them.... and we all know how differing services can be online (look at some of the hosting nightmares).

There is a guy on here I'd trust, LeeMason, who provides this service.

Very kind. Thanks for the recommendation.

I think whatever you do it is critically important to keep an offsite copy of your important data. And this doesn't just apply to company data these days. So much personal data is now kept on PCs and laptops which is important (at least to the person storing it - and possibly for tax and other reasons).

Some people are disciplined enough to cycle USB disks and take one offsite but you still need some way of managing copying incremental data onto these disks.

With online backup at least you have the security that you can set it and forget it knowing that your data is secured automatically offsite every day (or continuously in some cases).
 
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Online backup solutions are only as good as your internet speed for downloading the data back again in the event of a disaster.

i.e. - anyone without a pretty serious internet link (most probably 99.99% of people here) will need to recover terabytes of data from something a little more likely to avoid putting the company out of action for a week or two whilst the backup is downloaded.

Mike.

This is true to an extent. However I would point out that restoring over an ADSL Internet connection is actually much quicker that backing up because of the difference in downstream and upstream speeds.

Also the only time that you would need to restore that amount of data is in a total disaster. There are alternatives: we provide customers with the ability to call off a "seed load" which involves writing the data to a USB disk and couriering it to them for local restore. In this way we can have the data back to the customer within 24 hours.

In addition if you really do have terabytes of data the best strategy would be onsite backup to a backup appliance with offsite replication of that data. This makes local backup and restore quick with the additional security of an up to date offsite copy. We have customers with 1TB+ who do this quite successfully. Again the initial backup is best performed to the remote replication server using a seed load disk from the onsite backup appliance but after that only incremental changes go across the Internet connection. These will trickle feed in background and for the typical customer with 1TB of data these will be finished overnight.
 
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KM-Tiger

Free Member
Aug 10, 2003
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Bexley, Kent
Some people are disciplined enough to cycle USB disks and take one offsite but you still need some way of managing copying incremental data onto these disks.

Very few in my experience, and there is always the problem of the responsible person being on holiday/off sick.

That said I have a fair few customers who do use USB discs, and in that case I monitor which disc is mounted, and the system emails them once per day if the agreed change interval is exceeded, and until they change the disc.

As regards recovery from online backup, yes one does need a plan, as it can take days to download the data. But in practice essential business data is usually not that large and as long as you have a system that allows selective restores, can be downloaded in a reasonable time. The collection of family photographs and the mp3's can trickle down later.
 
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This is true to an extent. However I would point out that restoring over an ADSL Internet connection is actually much quicker that backing up because of the difference in downstream and upstream speeds.

Also the only time that you would need to restore that amount of data is in a total disaster. There are alternatives: we provide customers with the ability to call off a "seed load" which involves writing the data to a USB disk and couriering it to them for local restore. In this way we can have the data back to the customer within 24 hours.

In addition if you really do have terabytes of data the best strategy would be onsite backup to a backup appliance with offsite replication of that data. This makes local backup and restore quick with the additional security of an up to date offsite copy. We have customers with 1TB+ who do this quite successfully. Again the initial backup is best performed to the remote replication server using a seed load disk from the onsite backup appliance but after that only incremental changes go across the Internet connection. These will trickle feed in background and for the typical customer with 1TB of data these will be finished overnight.

Almost all of my customers have Terabyte+ data. In fact it's just taken me a couple of days to migrate 4Tb of data for one customer to another SAN over gigabit, so you can extrapolate that for an 8mbit/s ADSL connection and you'd be waiting about a year to get your data back! So, if you offer a couriered data service then that avoids the point I was trying to make which is that with rising data volumes you should never align yourself solely with an offsite backup service that doesn't offer data by courier 24x7.

(and I say this whilst dealing this weekend with a 250Gb data migration from one server to another on a customer site :D)
 
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Pentangle: Absolutely. I does take quite a while to copy data anyway. Copying terabytes of data even from disk to disk can take quite some time.

I think it's just you and I on here this fine Saturday morning. Not sure what they says!
 
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Argh!

RAID IS NOT BACKUP!

aaaand breathe.

:)

I think you took that quote out of context anyway. I think he was explaining that a RAID array used as an alternative location for storage IS backup (which it is, despite me agreeing wholeheartedly with the probable meaning of your large lettered rant, which is that RAID in itself is not a backup mechanism, purely a method by which redundancy and/or capacity and/or throughput speed are added to a storage mechanism)
:cool:
 
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stugster

Free Member
Feb 1, 2007
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Edinburgh, UK
considerit.com
The solution you choose for your business is down to you, whether it be a RAID configured hard drive array like we offer, or an online panel-based system like Carbonite.

Pentangle said:
I think you took that quote out of context anyway.

Doesn't look out of context to me. The post I refer to offers either RAID (as a backup) or online backup.

RAID is NOT backup.
 
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KM-Tiger

Free Member
Aug 10, 2003
10,346
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RAID is NOT backup.

No it's not, and I don't think it hurts to repeat that statement, given that these forums are read by many business people who are not IT experts.

It's only a few months back that the BBC published an article on its website that implied RAID was backup. Despite a retraction, some will have been left with that impression.
 
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N

NetwiseHosting

Slugster, you have quoted out of context I'm afraid. RAID is not offered as a backup solution, and I didnt even hint at the fact it was.

Our offsite backup facility is configured to RAID for added redundancy. This is a security measure taken to prevent failure of the system at our end, not yours.
Please do read and understand the content fully before throwing out brash comments in future, you only aid in fueling misunderstanding and misinterpretation.
Netwise Hosting have been operating in the highest levels of IT supplementary services for a long time, and of course fully understand all related technologies.

But you are indeed correct, RAID is not backup.
 
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That Guy

Free Member
Dec 23, 2008
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UK
I am currently looking for a similer solution. I am currently using a free Solution Dropbox

Which is good as it offers:

- File/Folder syncing with remove servers.
- You can access the files online.
- 256bit Encryption.
- You can sync/backup between multiple computers.

I suppose its not really in the same league as the corperate backup solutions but not bad as a starting point if you don't have a huge amount of data to backup. Packages range from 2gb to 100gb.

You could also use your own hosting package and Cobian Backup to backup to a hosting account.

Don't get me wrong these solutions are not for the big companies but for smaller businesses they can work really well.
 
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N

NetwiseHosting

Dropbox is not a bad solution for personal use, and perhaps for small businesses who do not consider their data to be overly sensitive in its nature.

I have used it on occasion for personal use, and found it a relatively simple and easy system to use. But as you mentioned yourself, the corporate environment will tend to require a more robust and professionally viable solution, which will mean paying a premium for the best service.
 
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jjreview

Free Member
Mar 17, 2010
17
3
I think if you want a backup plan that you can sell, you have to analyze (analyse) what you're backing up against. Power failure? EMP? Earthquake? Hurricane?

I live in South Florida. After the last hurricane, companies were tripping over themselves to implement off-site (colocation) backups. And since the internet was down during the hurricane (I remember driving to an Office Depot 30 miles away because someone said it had internet), they wanted on-site backups too.
 
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