HSBC eSecure

Lark

Free Member
Sep 30, 2008
92
3
Was thinking of FSB membership + Streamline + Protx (now Sage Pay - yuch!) but after crunching some numbers today have concluded that the total HSBC with eSecure may be the most cost effective for me as I won't have to pay FSB membership each year.

Any problems with eSecure to note?

Thanks
 

KateCB

Free Member
May 11, 2006
2,273
539
Barnsley, South Yorkshire
I use HSBC and Protx/Sagepay - the esecure is from HSBC? if this is their payment processing portal (negates Protx/Sagepay) then be aware that they do not offer third man fraud screening/verification - this is what made me stay with Protx as it has proved to be a valuable tool.

Also, I am a member of FSB purely for their legal cover for tax inspections/legal helpline - I find that their member offers can often be sourced elsewhere at much lower cost.....I saved £800 on my business insurance this year by NOT talking the FSB 'partner' up on their quote!
 
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davidakerr

Kate

If your a member of the FSB why do you constantly bad mouth them? This is your second post on the same theme. If they're that bad why don't you resign. The FSB is not about cheap deals, never has been and never will be................it's a service provided to members who have asked for specific services, you are under no obligation to use them.

You stated why you were a member, that should be enough, the other stuff is a bonus, if you want it.
 
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KateCB

Free Member
May 11, 2006
2,273
539
Barnsley, South Yorkshire
David,

I don't think that making others aware that the FSB is not the be all and end all of members offers is 'bad mouthing' them - it is fact, it is I hope helpful; that said, BOTH (surely this cannot be classed as constantly?) posts state that I am a member ONLY because their legal side is second to none for the annual cost.

I have been in talks with our local FSB Chairman about the same thing, and it has been put on the agenda for the next board meeting - the FSB don't see it as bad mouthing, but as a valid point and one which I might add, is causing them to look at other providers for their partnership members offers in order to actually offer us something worth having - all good points if it helps not only the members save money but the FSB become more credible surely?

The FSB DO state in their marketing that you 'save' by taking advatage of their partnership offers - so if we can't, then they need to know in order to further their business; had my posts been opposing then there would be cause for concern - the fact that you have noticed that my posts are consistent surely tells you that this is something I feel strongly about ?
 
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Kate, I'm behind you 100%. Congratulations to your South Yorkshire Regional Chairman Tony, too, on election to national Vice Chairman. He works hard for the membership.

I too use the legal helpline and recommend on that basis alone. It is more than worth the annual fee. Anyone looking for a specific membership benefit to save them specific cash outlay rather than considering the relative merits of membership should stay well away. This is a membership organisation with much more to offer than a couple of pennies savings from services and I really do wish the membership sales team would drop that aspect as part of the sales pitch. Hopefully the new membership chairman has taken that on board.

Insofar as "member services" are concerned, I too take each at their value to my business in a competitive environment and see them as uncompetitive in most instances. There again we don't use credit card payment facilities (just reconsidering it and initial analysis again says not yet). But many of our customers cannot find anything near the Streamline/ProtX combination. But then, many of our customers are members of the FSB for genuine business reasons rather than immediate explicit and often insignificant cost savings. so those additional savings are, umm, additional.
 
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Was thinking of FSB membership + Streamline + Protx (now Sage Pay - yuch!) but after crunching some numbers today have concluded that the total HSBC with eSecure may be the most cost effective for me as I won't have to pay FSB membership each year.

Any problems with eSecure to note?

Thanks

If you do a keyword search on esecure then you should find a few posts relating to the problems. The biggest of which being that esecure is an old unsupported bit of kit and when it goes down there is no out of hours/weekend support for it - not very useful when thats most peoples peak shopping times!
 
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Kate

I did say the FSB was not about cheap deals, it was much more than that. If, as you say, the FSB are looking at alternative partners to offer better savings, I'm really surprised you haven't posted this valuable information on the FSB Forum. I'm sure the FSB Forum will welcome your contributions on any subject affecting FSB members or small businesses.

I didn't mean to snipe at you, perhaps it would have been more diplomatic had I said rather then be negative it may be more productive to be positive, and instead of highlighting what you consider to be the negatives, talk up the positives.

I agree that not all benefits are the cheapest, but to venture back to the OP they spoke about the FSB Sreamline deal together with Protx. I believe this is one of the best deals available and other Topics on this Forum seem to substantiate that.

Could I also say to LARK that I think what MKE means is do not join the FSB if all you want to do is try and save a few pennies on "cheaper" deals, membership is much more than that, and that is what I was trying to say in my previous post.
 
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I agree that not all benefits are the cheapest, but to venture back to the OP they spoke about the FSB Sreamline deal together with Protx. I believe this is one of the best deals available and other Topics on this Forum seem to substantiate that.

Can the FSB streamline deal be taken up at any time? I already have Streamline/Worldpay and have been giving serious consideration to joining FSB and know many happy members who would say they have recouped their £100 in the Streamline deal alone as well as via other offers on banking etc, it would be of significant benefit if I could join and then utilise this to improve my rates further.
 
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Boho

Once you apply for membership to the FSB you are then eligible for all the benefits attributed to FSB membership and that includes discounted rates with Streamline/Worldplay; Business Banking via Co-op Bank etc etc.

If you need any further information please send me a PM and I will be happy to help.
 
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starsgazing

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Hi, Just to try and get the thread back to the original posters question (even if it was designed to be for other personal reasons).

I developed the HSBC CPI ePayment gateway for Virtuemart and Joomla. I now sell it on average about twice per week and have done for the past 3 or 4 yrs.

Many people also ask for hosting with this, so i now look after many hundreds of sites that use the HSBC ePayments system.

At no point have i been made aware of their system going down or any other problems.

In Fact quite the contrary, i have been amazed at how their support service has helped me, and as there are only about 7 people working in the tech support team, i have got to know them on first names terms. Pranita knows me very well as she called me back when i was in the shower, so now we laugh every time about that situation. How many other people can say these things about a payment gateway service?

PS i dont have shares or any affiliate links to HSBC lol, im just saying it as i see it.
 
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At no point have i been made aware of their system going down or any other problems.

But it has though...

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=62187&highlight=epayments

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=52449&highlight=epayments

January last year was a particular problem and it caused friends of mine who run an online coffee retail business a lot of problems, they lost a lot of money, yes some money was recovered in a certain amount of the transactions, but a substantial amount was lost in lost customers and orders they couldn't recover and resubmit.

In your experience do they now have out of hours and weekend support or is it still day time working hours only? If so thats not any use when issues occur out of hours.
 
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Hi Boho
I suppose it is not perfect to rely on just one gateway, i use 2 on my sites, one being paypal, and the other being Google. Even though Google is cheaper for me (at the moment at least) and uses almost exactly the same payment process as paypal, people still prefer to use PayPal.

Most ecommerce systems have the option to add in more than one gateway, so this shouldn't be a problem.

I didnt hear about any problems through my clients, but that was by the sounds of it about 17 months ago.

The tech support team i speak too is open 8am to 6pm and i know the customer service team are open later, till about 8pm i think, and i believe on a weekend as well. But as im not a HSBC customer i dont know the exact times i have to admit. But when i call the tech line, if they are closed it goes through to the normal customer service number, thats the only reason i know they are open later.

But considering Google Checkout hasnt got any phone support at all, thats not bad.
 
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starsgazing

But as im not a HSBC customer i dont know the exact times i have to admit.

But considering Google Checkout hasnt got any phone support at all, thats not bad.

10pm :D

Oh and Google Checkout don't *need* phone support - seriously, has anyone had *any* tech problems with them? They're pretty solid IMHO I much prefer them to Paypal... it's just a shame customers don't. Damn you eBay!

(For the record, I love eBay - just hate Paypal and all it stands for :D)
 
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As checkout is free I also wouldn't expect the same level of support from it as I do a paid for psp, lol I hate checkout with a passion and always choose paypal or other checkout options on sites, I simply can't be bothered with all the registration stuff, I object to it trying to tie it to my business and I'm not interested in giving google additional tracking on my buying behaviour either (and yes it probably is tracked by someone else somewhere, but I'm not made to feel that it is by other psps)
 
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Lark

Free Member
Sep 30, 2008
92
3
Just to try and get the thread back to the original posters question (even if it was designed to be for other personal reasons).

As the original question poster could I just please assert that there was nothing whatsoever behind my original question other than the desire to get more information to inform an important decision. I am not sure what makes you think otherwise and I can't actually imagine what the 'other personal reasons' could possibly be! :|
 
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Lark

Free Member
Sep 30, 2008
92
3
Could I also say to LARK that I think what MKE means is do not join the FSB if all you want to do is try and save a few pennies on "cheaper" deals, membership is much more than that, and that is what I was trying to say in my previous post.

I am a little start-up with zero money to spare. Every penny spent on set-up costs is a penny less spent on say, products to sell. The narrower my start-up range the more difficult it will be to attract, convert and keep people coming back. A very fine line to tread.

I have no doubt that the FSB is a very valuable organisation and of course I would love to join. But, at this point it is not as necessary to the future health of my buiness as say, setting up my merchant account etc. However, IF joining the FSB lowers my start-up cost AND gives me the benifits of being a member then fantastic.

I don't know why my having to make decisions based mainly on cost offends so much. Why MKE thinks I should 'stay well away' if all I am trying to save money is a mystery. Surely if I join the FSB, it gets my money and can better serve all it's members. Why should anyone care why I or anyone else joins?:|

This is about making sound, cost-effective business decisions.

Back to eSecure. I am a bit put off as THEY don't seem very business-like. Of course it is quite possiblle that they don't especially want my business as I am likely to be very small BUT trying to get proper quotes in writing out of them has been difficult. That makes me worry about the customer support if technical things go wrong.

BUT, then, I'd also like to be able to accept CC/DC at fairs etc and Stramline say I can't use their virtual terminal solutions for that. They are designed for Customer Not Present and one is not allowed to use them if the customer IS present. I have visions of asking people to hide around the corner while I process them!. This was not a problem for HSBC.

Upshot is I still don't know which to choose!
 
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As checkout is free I also wouldn't expect the same level of support from it as I do a paid for psp, lol I hate checkout with a passion and always choose paypal or other checkout options on sites, I simply can't be bothered with all the registration stuff, I object to it trying to tie it to my business and I'm not interested in giving google additional tracking on my buying behaviour either (and yes it probably is tracked by someone else somewhere, but I'm not made to feel that it is by other psps)

Boho, Google Checkout is not free, and in a few days all promotions that it had will be stopping, no more 1.5% + 15p (not free), it actually jumps to the same costs as paypal of 3.4 + 20p
http://checkout.google.com/seller/fees.html

Also the fact a company is trying to track and trace what is happening can be looked at in 2 ways

  1. There is a conspiracy and the world is trying to eat you from the inside because you have watched to much media.
  2. They are doing their best to work out peoples patterns to make people use their services better and and in so make you more sales.
Not sure which it could be?

I am not sure what makes you think otherwise and I can't actually imagine what the 'other personal reasons' could possibly be! :|

Sorry if i said it wrong, i wasn't having a go at you, i was kind of taking the mick out of others that took what you said and then took the thread into a completely different tangent regarding the FSB.

Kate

If your a member of the FSB why do you constantly bad mouth them? This is your second post on the same theme.....quote]

I read quickly the above post but didn't see the name "Kate", and thought it was referring to the original poster, BTW i don't disagree with Kate, i just assumed when i first read it, that there was some history of constant complaints that i was unaware off, sorry :redface:.
 
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Lark

If you need to take CC/DC at fairs and exhibitions then probably you need a Mobile Terminal which can double up as a fixed terminal but without the need to "plug in" to a telephone line. Once again the FSB can help by saving you money in comparison to what Banks charge.

Some people, including members, seem to think the FSB's Service Providers do not offer a good package.........well they're entitled to their opinion but they would not get the Legal and Tax Package at the Subscription level it's at if members did not support the Companies who provide services like Merchant Accounts and Free Banking.
 
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originally posted by da8wir

took the thread into a completely different tangent regarding the FSB

If you read all the threads you will find the remarks concerning the FSB were in fact relative to the OP's question. There was a difference of opinion as to what benefit the FSB would be to the OP in relation to Merchant Services and whether or not the OP would benefit by being a member to obtain all of the benefits.
 
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Not as easy as paypal though probably cheaper

We have spent the last three years building a massive whopper of a site
http://www.paymentgatewaydirectory.com/home.php
It is a price comparison site that compares payment gateway providers against each other and then gives out the results of how much it costs to use.

The maths it uses takes into account the merchant account costs, and the setup costs, which on HSBC is £200 and then £200 per year there after.

I have just done a test with £25 per transaction and 30 transactions per month, i put in that my merchant account costs me £100 per year and £20 per month.

It worked out that HSBC was more expensive than PayPal.

  • Paypal = Total: 53.28 GBP per month / 2.13 GBP per transaction
  • HSBC = Total: 77.38 GBP per month / 3.10 GBP per transaction
This is mainly due to the fixed costs, as the setup costs are divided over an average of 3yrs and the other costs are over the year and into each transaction.

This means the more transactions you have, the cheaper it becomes, as there is more division.

So lets redo the test using
300 transaction per month and each transaction is aprox £500 (assume we are selling 10 LCD TVs per day)

  • PayPal = Total: 5222.78 GBP per month / 10.45 GBP per transaction
  • HSBC = Total: 1932.50 GBP per month / 3.87 GBP per transaction
So it is now reversed, HSBC being cheaper by about £3000 per month!!!!

We built this system that will be officially launched when Google switch to their new fees on May the 5th, to show that no payment gateway is cheaper or more expensive, as it depends on the size and quantity of transaction you put through.

Give it ago, the top links arnt working at present but they will be by May the 5th and there is a problem with the right hand search form in the results as well as the more options in the search, don't use them yet as we moved things round a bit. But all the costs are correct, so you should get a good idea of what things are costing you.
 
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Lark

Free Member
Sep 30, 2008
92
3
The maths it uses takes into account the merchant account costs, and the setup costs, which on HSBC is £200 and then £200 per year there after.

In talking to HSBC I seemed to have missed the £200 per year thereafter bit! Are you sure? Maybe that is why it is so hard to get a quote in writing.

I created a price comparison spreadsheet, and as you point out it all depends on each individual company's circumstances and what average order value/volume.

Don't Paypal etc hold on to your money for a long time? I am under the impression that they do which clearly has implications for cash flow etc
 
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Hi Lark
The system we built, takes into account the Settlement period which on HSBC is 3 working days. we work it out with the overdraft interest rate that is asked for in the search form. This means if you have £30,000 of money tied up in the payment gateway during the settlement period

I have just called their sales line and asked for a quote as a new client, and they quoted me

£200 setup
£20 per month
3 - 3.5% for credit cards
35p per transaction on debit cards.

That's for turnover between £0 and £150,000

So your right, i was given wrong information regarding the £200 per year, but i also just called 2 of my clients and one is paying £100 per year costs and the other is paying nothing, so maybe it is up to how they are feeling at the time.

I also asked about fraud and charge backs, who is responsible for this and they said I am as the merchant, so it is equally as safe if not less safe than using PayPal or anybody else.

I have amended my website with the new information, so you can test it correctly now :)

Regards
Ian
 
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Sorry pressed wrong button!!!!

HSBC
Set up Fee £200
£20 per month
3-3.5% Credit Cards
35p per transaction

FSB via Streamline
Set up fee Free
Per month £14.95 (First 3 months free rental)
Credit Cards 1.93-1.95%
Debit Cards 29.5p-30.5p per transaction

As I said before I cut myself off...................Am I missing something here?
 
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Lark

Free Member
Sep 30, 2008
92
3
To be fair, if you are considering joining the FSB in order to qualify for the FSB member Streamline rates then you need to include the £150/£200 recurring annual FSB membership fee (which, it goes without saying gives you access to many more valuable FSB services ;))

Also, the £200 HSBC one-off set-up fee plus the high-ish transaction charges are, I think, when you are using eSecure. The FSB/Streamline rates previously quoted (on another thread possibly) needs Protx or similar added on at £20 per month.

As Ian rightly points out, the actual costs vary depending on order value and volume and the decision may not be as clear cut for some, especially smaller players, as it is for others.

That said, I have decided to go the FSB route though I was dissapointed to hear it might take 2 weeks to process my application! I need an FSB number before I can apply for Streamline.
 
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ArmitageShanks

Free Member
Dec 24, 2008
24
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To be fair, if you are considering joining the FSB in order to qualify for the FSB member Streamline rates then you need to include the £150/£200 recurring annual FSB membership fee (which, it goes without saying gives you access to many more valuable FSB services ;))

Also, the £200 HSBC one-off set-up fee plus the high-ish transaction charges are, I think, when you are using eSecure. The FSB/Streamline rates previously quoted (on another thread possibly) needs Protx or similar added on at £20 per month.

As Ian rightly points out, the actual costs vary depending on order value and volume and the decision may not be as clear cut for some, especially smaller players, as it is for others.

That said, I have decided to go the FSB route though I was dissapointed to hear it might take 2 weeks to process my application! I need an FSB number before I can apply for Streamline.

You can get a temporary membership number as soon as you sign on the line with the FSB.
 
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Interesting thread. Its good to see merchants are aggressively looking at their pricing:).

I will add a couple of points that have not been covered.

First there are certain average transaction levels (ATV) where % based providers are better than flate rate and vica versa. If your ATV is anywhere around the 5-10 currency units (for example GBP is a currency unit) then % based providers are the better option. The actual threshold is dependant on what your flat rate is for debit cards.

Second the longer you have been trading with a bank issued merchant account the better rates you will get. Every year you should be re-negotiating your rates with your acquiring bank. A key point that the vast majority of Merchants fail to realise is using a Paypal or Google type payment method as they only payments type(s) offered means you are NOT part of the actual credit chain. So when you do finally go to get a merchant account after x years trading then you will realise you have lost x years of credit history with the acquiring banks. What that means is you will start at worse rates. So also weigh in the cost paying an extra few tenths of a percent in 3-4 years time will cost you.

The setup we recommend to our Merchants is to use a Paypal or Google type setup in conjuntion with a merchant account. Merchants who us just on of the afformentioned will be losing sales. Typically Merchants who start on a bank issued merchant account after using just one of the above report an increase in throughput of 20-30% literally overnight.

Hope that helps.
 
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