Hi and Help :(

[bettyboo]

First of all i would like to say hello to everyone as I am new to this site.

Secondly: Please help, well some good advice would be much appreciated.

My partner runs his own building business, it has been going for over 5 years and is very successful. Due to this we have decided to buy our first house. Financially we are doing ok and there is no bad debt.
Friday 13th march My partner was in a meeting with a new client who was wanting to hire my partners services, when he looked up from the computor and said " I'm sorry but you have bad credit!" ????
At the same time our application for the mortgage was going through, I recieved a call from our financial advisor to say that the mortgage had been refused due to a CCJ that had only recently been added to my partners Credit. We both rushed home and waiting for us on the doormat was in fact a letter stating that a ccj had been enforced in my partners name. It was for non payment of tax in 2005! Please be aware that my partner has an accountant who deals with this and as far as we were aware we had payed everything as and when. The ccj is not against my partners business but actually against him.
We contacted his accountant who said that this was a mistake and that in the year they are saying he owes the tax he actually recieved a tax rebate.???
How do we get this removed , how long does it take and is the accountant at fault at all. We did recieve letters about 7 months ago stating my partner owed tax, my partner forward them onto his accountant, as his accountant said it was a mistake and he would sort it. That was the last we heard untill the CCJ arrived on friday.
I am devastated, we may lose the house we are going for, also my partner will not be able to buy materials etc as its always done on credit.
Can we get this removed immediately, as in tomorrow , as we are supposed to start the buying process of said house and my partner has another meeting with the clients who were aware of this on friday.
Sorry for going on and I do apologize if some does not make sense, but I litterally feel sick with worry.
Thank you in advance for any advice given. xx

 

[maygenta]

go to the citizens advice bureau, they will help you

Good Luck!

 

[bettyboo]

Thank you for your reply. That is deffanetly an option, just wondered if anyone on here had experience of this or knew about this kind of predicament. But I will deffanetly ring the citizens advice tomorrow and see what they say. At the moment his accountant is dealing with it but i feel a bit nervous about that as this should have been delt with months ago, the worst thing is that when we recieved a letter 7 months ago saying he owed tax we went to pay as we have never faulted on anything, but his accountant was adamant that we didnt owe it and said he would deal with it. Thanks again. xx

 

[Robs]

Unfortunately the Hmrc are a law unto themselves, you'll have to write to them and appeal telling them you have proof that your partner received a rebate and that they did not inform you before it got to this point. This is a long drawn out process, i seem to remember there was documentary on hmrc's mishaps that they where refusing to accept responsibility for. think i might have been on Trevor McDonald or something like that!

You could appeal against the ccj decision in the court, you should of been notified of court action i.e summons to county court before receiving a CCJ. But you would have to see a lawyer or C.A.B advisor.

Your answer might be to settle the debt, dispute the tax. Appeal the ccj in court. Then when you've proved innocence claim the tax back,that's the system with them.

If your husband was a trading as firm and the firm owes debt to the hrmc then they can come for the money, as a self employed trading as firm cannot be seprated to personal finances.

If he was Ltd then they may be chasing for unpaid Paye tax.

What i am telling you is not a recommendation nor is it advice, it purely for information purposes only.

 

[bettyboo]

Thank you so much Rob for your reply, very helpful and as strange as it seems it makes me feel not so all alone. My partner has every faith in his accountant sorting this out, I on the other hand am a bit nervous about it. Yes it is his personal tax (paye) and not his business tax. But both are handled by his accountant.
Unfortunately it is beginning to dawn on me that this will take a while to sort out and unfortunately that will mean losing the house we were going to buy, so upset by it, absolutely gutted. I will also look into issuing a ccj to the hmrc () for ruining our chance of getting a mortgage and losing the house we fell in love with aswell as whatever detrementation this will have to my partner and his good name in the business world through no fault of his own. Thanks again. xxx

 

[Robs]

I don't think your accountant can sort the CCj situation out, unless they admit it was hmrc's fault and reverse the process but it still would have to be a court to remove it.

You may and its a big may still be able to get a mortgage, but you need to search through various brokers/advisors, unfortunately i'm not Up and running just yet, still in the start up process. But if you need advice i can get one of my contacts to contact you or when I'm up and running at the end of summer contact me. P.m me.

Rob

 

Is your husband business a Limited company? If it is then the debts of an individual would not stop him opening credit accounts up for materials and supplies as a business - surely he has these open as he's been trading for 5 years anyway?

With regards to the CCJ being issued personally - you always get warnings before a CCJ is issued (i know you said you recieved letters but did you not recieve the claim pack from the court).

It all sounds a little strange to me, if it has happened exactly how you've told it then i would be finding another accountant straight away!!!! It sounds as if something untoward has been going on. If the tax it relates to is for his business then if anything a CCJ shoudl be issued against the business not him individually!!! I am talking of course as if he is a Limited company and not a sole trader.

My advice would be to contact the court direct and ask them for their advice, you may be able to fill in a form or something - or even contact HMRC and ask them.

Hope this helps and hope you get it sorted xxxx

 

[bettyboo]

Thank you Lucyauty for your reply.
He does already have an account for materials and yes the business is limited, the ccj is against his own tax payments (which is also sorted out by accountant). How we became aware was when he was in a meeting with new clients who were offering him a contract, They said that they couldnt proceed with the contract as it has come up that he has bad credit. Even though he was there as a business it still linked to his personal accounts ???? Not sure why or how.
My partner and I have no recollection of a claim pack from court nor a court summons. Just the letters we recieved 7 months ago saying he owed the money and how to ake payment etc. Which, as mentioned before, was passed on to his accountant as he was adamant that no monies was owed at all.
As far as im aware his accountant is supposed to be contacting court first thing this morning as well as dealing with the tax issue. But I too have an unsettled feeling in relation to his accountant. This may be unwarranted and be purely a case of the tax office making a mistake. Guess will have to wait and see.
Thank you again for your reply. xxx

 

Thank you Lucyauty for your reply.
He does already have an account for materials and yes the business is limited, the ccj is against his own tax payments (which is also sorted out by accountant). How we became aware was when he was in a meeting with new clients who were offering him a contract, They said that they couldnt proceed with the contract as it has come up that he has bad credit. Even though he was there as a business it still linked to his personal accounts ???? Not sure why or how.
My partner and I have no recollection of a claim pack from court nor a court summons. Just the letters we recieved 7 months ago saying he owed the money and how to ake payment etc. Which, as mentioned before, was passed on to his accountant as he was adamant that no monies was owed at all.
As far as im aware his accountant is supposed to be contacting court first thing this morning as well as dealing with the tax issue. But I too have an unsettled feeling in relation to his accountant. This may be unwarranted and be purely a case of the tax office making a mistake. Guess will have to wait and see.
Thank you again for your reply. xxx

I understand how stressed you must be feeling! The one thing is though - if he was meeting with new clients i presume this was for business, how come they credit checked him personally and not the business?

I deal with sole traders, limited companies etc day in day out and that was just one thing i found odd.

Mistakes do happen and if it is found out to be a genuine error on behalf of HMRC / accountant then it will be rectified but unfortunately make take a few weeks.

If you are really set on buying that house why not try a different mortgage broker? If you only have 1 CCJ between you and a deposit i wouldn't really call you sub-prime but obviously you probably may not get a high street rate. Depends on how much you love this house!

Good luck anyway, i hope you manage to get it sorted and get the house xxx

 

[bettyboo]

I understand how stressed you must be feeling! The one thing is though - if he was meeting with new clients i presume this was for business, how come they credit checked him personally and not the business?

I deal with sole traders, limited companies etc day in day out and that was just one thing i found odd.

Mistakes do happen and if it is found out to be a genuine error on behalf of HMRC / accountant then it will be rectified but unfortunately make take a few weeks.

If you are really set on buying that house why not try a different mortgage broker? If you only have 1 CCJ between you and a deposit i wouldn't really call you sub-prime but obviously you probably may not get a high street rate. Depends on how much you love this house!

Good luck anyway, i hope you manage to get it sorted and get the house xxx

Hi , thank you again for reply.

Im not sure why they did a personnal credit check??? I too found this a bit strange, But Im guessing as my partner is a small based company they were making sure he could supply materials and labour as usually payment to my partner is normally 28 days once completion of works.

Ive already spoken to our financial advisor and she s working on the mortgage for us now, we are just waiting for the credit report so we know what we are dealing with.

I have one more question please .

If it turns out it is the accountants fault or that he did not deal with this 7 months ago as he states, Can we not hold him liable for this ccj. Because we would have payed, but we were instructed by accountant not to. He then told us it was all sorted. 7 Months later a ccj lands on our doorstep! Only on the basis that it is provable that its the accountants fault, is there no way we can appeal and do what is necassary in regards to legal action against the accountant.
(If it is the fault of the Tax office then i deeply and humbly apologize for thinking different.)

Thanks in advance for any advice on this. xxx

 

Hi , thank you again for reply.

Im not sure why they did a personnal credit check??? I too found this a bit strange, But Im guessing as my partner is a small based company they were making sure he could supply materials and labour as usually payment to my partner is normally 28 days once completion of works.

Ive already spoken to our financial advisor and she s working on the mortgage for us now, we are just waiting for the credit report so we know what we are dealing with.

I have one more question please .

If it turns out it is the accountants fault or that he did not deal with this 7 months ago as he states, Can we not hold him liable for this ccj. Because we would have payed, but we were instructed by accountant not to. He then told us it was all sorted. 7 Months later a ccj lands on our doorstep! Only on the basis that it is provable that its the accountants fault, is there no way we can appeal and do what is necassary in regards to legal action against the accountant.
(If it is the fault of the Tax office then i deeply and humbly apologize for thinking different.)

Thanks in advance for any advice on this. xxx

I would contact the HMRC as a first point of call, if your accountant is in the wrong then of course he will try and cover it up. See what they have to say - they will help especially if you can pay it if you owe it. Also if you pay it within a month of being issued it will be marked as SATISFIED and then i think you can write to get it removed.

How long has the accountant worked for you for? Was he recommended to you?

Once you know exactly what has happened with the HMRC i would then confront the accountant and see what he says and how he can rectify it - put it in writing and explain what upset and problems this has caused .

xx

 

[bettyboo]

Thank you so much and everyone else who has helped with this matter.

I will defanetly get onto that straight away. The accountant he has had for over 20 yrs. But he is getting on a bit ( The accountant not my partner ) so the last few years a new bloke has been dealing with us and not the original bloke. I really do hope it is the hmrc that are at fault and not the accountant as that would be gutting.

Thank you again for all your help. xxxxx

 

Thank you so much and everyone else who has helped with this matter.

I will defanetly get onto that straight away. The accountant he has had for over 20 yrs. But he is getting on a bit ( The accountant not my partner ) so the last few years a new bloke has been dealing with us and not the original bloke. I really do hope it is the hmrc that are at fault and not the accountant as that would be gutting.

Thank you again for all your help. xxxxx

Keep us posted on how you get on, it would be interesting to know! And if i can offer any advice i will. We have a legal team here so i can always ask a question for you and get it answered with regards to the legalities of CCJ's etc.

Good luck anyway xxx

 

[Kate Shaw]

A CCJ doesn't automatically mean no mortgage, but it does make it more difficult, particiularly in this market. Hopefully you're going to be able to sort out the CCJ issue reasonably quickly (although it's likely to take longer than you'd like it to!), in which case the mortgage issue is removed. If it's not, then it's going to depend on the size of the CCJ, and the size of your deposit.

It's also worth knowing that if a CCJ is satisfied in full within 30 days of it being issued then you can get it removed from your credit file.

Good luck - and PM me if you'd like any mortgage details.

 

[bettyboo]

Thankyou for reply.

Oh dear what a mess this is turning out to be. On closer inspection of the ccj letter we recieved friday, It states that the ccj was issued 9th june 2008!!! .
When we recieved letters last year stating that money was owed, we contacted accountant immediately as he deals with all this, and he said forward all letters on to him as and when, as we did not owe any money.
The letter we recieved friday is to say that if money isnt paid in full by the 25th he has to go to a court hearing.
To say I feel like crying is an understatement. What the hell (excuse my language) as his accountant been doing!!!!!!!!!??????????
We are finding it increasingly hard to get in contact with his accountant as we always get the answer phone and when we do manage he says not to worry that this is a mistake and it has already been sorted!!!!
Any further advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. xxx

 

Thankyou for reply.

Oh dear what a mess this is turning out to be. On closer inspection of the ccj letter we recieved friday, It states that the ccj was issued 9th june 2008!!! .
When we recieved letters last year stating that money was owed, we contacted accountant immediately as he deals with all this, and he said forward all letters on to him as and when, as we did not owe any money.
The letter we recieved friday is to say that if money isnt paid in full by the 25th he has to go to a court hearing.
To say I feel like crying is an understatement. What the hell (excuse my language) as his accountant been doing!!!!!!!!!??????????
We are finding it increasingly hard to get in contact with his accountant as we always get the answer phone and when we do manage he says not to worry that this is a mistake and it has already been sorted!!!!
Any further advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. xxx

Something really isn't ringing true here! Firstly i would physically go to your accountants and demand to see him and don't go until he see's you both. He will feel intimidated by this and cannot avoid or simply "fob" you off. Ask him if you genuinely do owe the money, ask him to be honest. If he admits you do i would then pay it (of course if you are able to i know you mentioned previously you could have paid it) - if you pay it then you can get it marked as satisfied. If he says you don't owe the money (and of course you believe him) then i would sit there and not leave until he has spoken to HMRC/court and come up with someway of rectifying the situation.

Simply saying that its sorted and not to worry is not good enough and it is certainly not good customer service! He should be bending over backwards to sort out this mess.

Keep us posted xxx

 

[bettyboo]

Thank you for your reply.

I have contacted court just now. Apparently the amount has been reduced. I Have just payed it. But the ccj was issued in june 2008. I explained about how we were unaware because of the accountant, but the lady said she didnt think it would have much sway with the judges decision to remove the ccj. I am still going to apply for it to be removed and state that I payed as soon as I was fully aware of what has happened and I will also state everything that has happened between ourselves and his accountant since we first starting receiving letters last summer. She did say that the ccj will now say that its been payed but she did not know if we could get it removed.
As for his accountant...... I cant begin to imagine what is going on. I want actual proof that we did not owe this money as stated, I want proof that since this started last year that he has been actively sorting this out and I want answers as to why we were never informed of the seriousness of this matter. But most of all I want a new accountant!!!!.

Thank you again so much for all your help. xxx

 

Thank you for your reply.

I have contacted court just now. Apparently the amount has been reduced. I Have just payed it. But the ccj was issued in june 2008. I explained about how we were unaware because of the accountant, but the lady said she didnt think it would have much sway with the judges decision to remove the ccj. I am still going to apply for it to be removed and state that I payed as soon as I was fully aware of what has happened and I will also state everything that has happened between ourselves and his accountant since we first starting receiving letters last summer. She did say that the ccj will now say that its been payed but she did not know if we could get it removed.
As for his accountant...... I cant begin to imagine what is going on. I want actual proof that we did not owe this money as stated, I want proof that since this started last year that he has been actively sorting this out and I want answers as to why we were never informed of the seriousness of this matter. But most of all I want a new accountant!!!!.

Thank you again so much for all your help. xxx

Yes it will be marked as satisfied straight away, which will be shown when people do a credit check! Your mortgage broker should be able to tell potential lenders about it but with lending how it is at the moment not sure how it will effect your rate offered - all depends how much you want your house!

Good luck with getting it removed, remember that court staff are not legally trained and cannot give advice so it will all be down to the judge and if you have proof of sending letters to accountant etc they may look at it leniantly - especially seeing as how you have paid the amount in full.

I would still demand a meeting with the accountant, it is such bad business practise! Why not enquire on here for an accountant, or even better get one with a personal recommendation.

Good luck, i have sent a frienship request to you - i really would be interested to know the progress on getting it removed, update on your accountant and if you get your dream house!

Lucy x

 

[Zeno]

A few questions:-

1. Does your partner work within the CIS scheme? (Do the payments he receives from his customers come with tax deducted?)
2. Is your accountant qualified (Chartered Accountant, Chartered Certified Accountant etc)
3. Your partner should have been receiving statements at every year in July and January showing the debt. Are you saying he did not receive these or that they did not show the debt from 2005?

 

[Zeno]

Incidently, I'm not being nosy. Just trying to establish where your best bet of restitution lies.

 

[Dibs_h]

Thank you for your reply.

I have contacted court just now. Apparently the amount has been reduced. I Have just payed it. But the ccj was issued in june 2008. I explained about how we were unaware because of the accountant, but the lady said she didnt think it would have much sway with the judges decision to remove the ccj. I am still going to apply for it to be removed and state that I payed as soon as I was fully aware of what has happened and I will also state everything that has happened between ourselves and his accountant since we first starting receiving letters last summer. She did say that the ccj will now say that its been payed but she did not know if we could get it removed.
As for his accountant...... I cant begin to imagine what is going on. I want actual proof that we did not owe this money as stated, I want proof that since this started last year that he has been actively sorting this out and I want answers as to why we were never informed of the seriousness of this matter. But most of all I want a new accountant!!!!.

Thank you again so much for all your help. xxx

Not all "accountants" are the same & some are probably aren't even qualified for much. There are some fine folk on here - they should be able to give the relevant guidance.

I suppose you need to distinguish - going forward - a genuine qualified accountant, as opposed to someone who does "accounts". Terms & conditions and a contract might be something to look into.

 

[bettyboo]

Thank you all again for your replies.

I have finnaly spoke with the accountant. This is what he said:

The reason the ccj was not put on in june last year when it was first issued was because the accountant had contested it and showed proof that the money was not owed. Due to hmrc changing their file numbers they have lost a load of paperwork so thats why it was put on again.
He said that a number of his clients are experiencig the same problem due to the hmrc. He also said that the CCJ has to be removed by law as it was not correct. Also the money we have now payed will be refunded as we do not owe it. He also said that hmrc will never admit they are in the wrong. He promised this would be sorted but it is a process and should be sorted within 2 weeks.

I also found out what the actual problem was. The hmrc claimed that no tax returns were done for 2005. They estimated tax based on previous year and then came to the amount owed. Accountant contested and proved by his paperwork it was done so ccj was not registered and amount owed was removed. Then due to the hmrc changing all file numbers, paperwork has been lost, so it showed that this amount was owed so they immediately applied the ccj. Thats why we never knew of a CCJ until friday, as it had been registered on the 11th march 2009, even though it was first issued in june 2008.

Hopefully it will be finally sorted, though it will take up to 2 weeks. If this is all correct then as i mentioned in an earlier post i will be humbly apologetic to his accountant, :redface:.

Thank you again to everyone who has helped on this matter, very much appreciated. xxxx

 

[bettyboo]

A few questions:-

1. Does your partner work within the CIS scheme? (Do the payments he receives from his customers come with tax deducted?)
2. Is your accountant qualified (Chartered Accountant, Chartered Certified Accountant etc)
3. Your partner should have been receiving statements at every year in July and January showing the debt. Are you saying he did not receive these or that they did not show the debt from 2005?

Not sure on all the answers as partner is at work.
His accountant is qualified and does have a cerificate, I know im not wording this correct and I do apologise, He is a certified accountant.

Not sure about the statements, I believe this all comes to letters we first received 7 months ago. Which after speaking to his accountant does explain this because there was no fault just that the hmrc lost paperwork or messed up somewhere. Thats why it was only brought to light last summer and then he said he resolved it, then we received letter about CCJ friday just gone.

Hope I'm not being too trusting. But after finally talking to him today it did seem logical what he was saying and did explain a few things.

I will see what transpires over the next few days and make judgement on my findings as what to do next.

xxxx

 

[Stonelaughter]

When you say a CCJ "was put on" to you mean that a County Court Judgement was entered against your partner, or do you mean that a Court Claim was raised against him? In my experience, Judgements don't get "put on and taken off" like that without court hearings, and most certainly not without the defendant being aware of them. The defendant is an individual, NOT the accountant of an individual, so your partner WOULD KNOW.

One thing I will point out is that if a Judgement is entered against a person in relation to personal tax, the phrase "My accountant handles all that for me" IS NOT A DEFENCE. YOU, as an individual, are PERSONALLY responsible for your personal tax liability; and your accountant MUST keep you fully in the loop at all times regarding this. I realise that this is an awful way to find out that you're personally responsible, but no court in the land would ever accept your accountant's responsibility in this; your partner is responsible 100% for his personal tax affairs and that is that.

Limited Company tax is different.

 

[Robs]

I've experienced Hmrc losing books last year but lucky for me i checked up to if they'd received them. they had but was lost in the system as they put it. so i got my accountant to resubmit them physically and got Hmrc staff to sign a receipt.

If your accountant has said that a few of his/her clients have experienced similar then its either your local tax office is very poor at doing there job or it may be him not being very organised and overseen the problem. your accountant is right though hmrc hardly ever admit when they are in the wrong.

It would take a court to remove the CCJ, but now you've satisfied the ccj, this will improve your partners credit rating compared to a unsettled county court judgement. You will need to consult numerous mortgage advisers to get the best deal for yourself.

 

[bettyboo]

When you say a CCJ "was put on" to you mean that a County Court Judgement was entered against your partner, or do you mean that a Court Claim was raised against him? In my experience, Judgements don't get "put on and taken off" like that without court hearings, and most certainly not without the defendant being aware of them. The defendant is an individual, NOT the accountant of an individual, so your partner WOULD KNOW.

One thing I will point out is that if a Judgement is entered against a person in relation to personal tax, the phrase "My accountant handles all that for me" IS NOT A DEFENCE. YOU, as an individual, are PERSONALLY responsible for your personal tax liability; and your accountant MUST keep you fully in the loop at all times regarding this. I realise that this is an awful way to find out that you're personally responsible, but no court in the land would ever accept your accountant's responsibility in this; your partner is responsible 100% for his personal tax affairs and that is that.

Limited Company tax is different.

It was his personnal tax. Hes accountant handles his personal tax and his business tax. We did personally receive letters which we passed on to his accountant, Why? Because that is what his accountant asked us to do. I agree that in hindsite my partner should have been more involved in his accounts, but my partner is a extremely talented and gifted business man on the physical sense, Unfortunately on the admin sense he is not.
You say that my partner is 100% responsible for his personal tax. Why is it that many a paye person (self employed ) employs an accountant to handle their personal tax. Many that do this do it because they do not understand and need help in doing this. If no one else can be held responsible then shouldnt it be law that no one else can do your tax returns???? Because if you didnt understand it in the first place how would you understand if there was a mistake!????

The CCJ was issued 9th June 2008. The CCJ did not appear on his credit file until 11th March 2009? I too do not understand this, but this IS exactly what happened! The CCJ we recieved on Friday 13th March 2009 stated that it was issued 9th June 2008! It did not appear on any system or credit report until 11th March 2009!!! thats when we first become aware of it!

The fact of the matter is that hes accountant is adamant that the money was never owed, that the CCJ should never have been given. So I am holding off with applying to court to have the CCJ satisfied as his accountant has assured me that it will be removed.

Hopefully this will be resolved soon. Thank you for raising some interesting points. xxx

 

Just a word of warning though, you only have a month to get the CCJ satisfied and removed once you have paid it. So make sure you make a note of this date and hurry the accountant up as if for any reason it isn't an error then you don't want it lurking round on your file regardless of whether you've paid it! x