Worst fears confirmed

[KidsBeeHappy]

The VAT cut isn't supposed to pass money into the pockets of business. After all we collect VAT on behalf of those lovely people in the tax office (Duane ) it has nothing to do with our businesses own revenues.

The VAT cut is supposed to make it a bit cheaper for the end customer, who eventually, no matter what your business or supply, will eventually be a non vat registered end user.

and as I said elsewhere, 1991 business were screaming that a 2.5% increase in vat would cost them business, as the end users would baulk against the price increase.
Does not converse apply?

 

[wood1e2]

Cutting VAT and increasing duties just moves money around. If you only buy food, and not that in the way of clothes, you drive a 20 year old car. 2.5% ends up being a hole load of nothing!!

So there is no incentive to spend, because I wasn't in the first place. And I can't believe I am unique in the country!!

Then again I think the hole idea is crazy...lets give the 'no and lower income people' even more reason to get into debt!!

Isn't that the cycle that we started off on?

As some mentioned earlier with house prices at 150k no-one can afford, why not stimulate the housing market with deleting stamp duty. In good or bad times the housing market cannot work without new buyers. And certainly cannot work without first time buyers.

The VAT reduction does nothing for them.

Even with this VAT reduction sensible people are not going to buy a new car, they are going to buy a good second hand one, especially as prices have collapsed. Thereby spending even less on VAT...

 

[Mortime Business Software]

(17.5 - 15.0) / 17.5 = 14.3. It's a 14.3% cut in the tax rate.

Yes but when he puts it back up to 17.5% from 15%, that will be a 16.66% increase in the tax rate!

Dave

 

[adventurelife]

Yes but when he puts it back up to 17.5% from 15%, that will be a 16.66% increase in the tax rate!

Dave

Who says he will put it back to 17.5% If you listen to what he said it was just that it would increase again at the end of Dec 09 . Watch out for 20% vat is my guess

 

[aaamusements]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that as Chancellor, Broon auctioned of the gold reserves at bargain prices when gold was at a low?

Aren't those the same reserves that should have been plundered only in the event of a downturn like the current one? Or am I missing something here?

 

[Mortime Business Software]

... If you listen to what he said...

I hardly ever listen to him or that other evil, wicked, megalomaniac Gordon 'the goldfish' Brown, because I just cannot stomach listening to their nasty, evil lies.

The way in which that economic despot Gorgon 'back door' Brown has treated the hard-working, honest people of this country over the last few years is absolutely disgusting.

There has been no healthy growth as far as I can see. The only growth that has occurred has now been found to be an abscess which has now burst and is leaking its poisonous yellow puss in the form of human misery such as the destruction of homes in the form of house repossessions, failing businesses and unemployment, and I reckon there is plenty more to come.

Dave

 

[instant-time]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that as Chancellor, Broon auctioned of the gold reserves at bargain prices when gold was at a low?

Aren't those the same reserves that should have been plundered only in the event of a downturn like the current one? Or am I missing something here?

you also forgot about the pension defict as he taxed pensins growth!


Under New Labourt ehre has been so much stealth taxes we are yet to pay for!

Also we have a fifth of the country employed in public sector and basically no manufactering !

 

[Esk247]

The only growth that has occurred has now been found to be an abscess which has now burst and is leaking its poisonous yellow puss in the form of human misery such as the destruction of homes in the form of house repossessions, failing businesses and unemployment, and I reckon there is plenty more to come.

thats beautifully descriptive

 

[Esk247]

fifth of the country employed in public sector and basically no manufactering !

thats what i keep banging on about...i always argue with people over this!!! BRING BACK MANUFACTURING...buy british from british thats my moto...look after number one!

 

[instant-time]

fifth of the country employed in public sector and basically no manufactering !

thats what i keep banging on about...i always argue with people over this!!! BRING BACK MANUFACTURING...buy british from british thats my moto...look after number one!

whats there to argue?

as someone put it in a letter to the deditor in the Times "we cant have everyone bringing in each other washing"when gordon said he was going to emply even more people in public sectror!

 

[Esk247]

whats there to argue?

i forever get the 'engineerings dead..don't bother..wasting your time young one' puts me in a right mood! if the government put as much money in to manufacturing as they did advisors and think tanks we might have people with money that want to go shopping and buy cars..instead..we have millions just pushing paperclips around a desk

 

[instant-time]

whats there to argue?

i forever get the 'engineerings dead..don't bother..wasting your time young one' puts me in a right mood! if the government put as much money in to manufacturing as they did advisors and think tanks we might have people with money that want to go shopping and buy cars..instead..we have millions just pushing paperclips around a desk

well our work force is 25% public sector ( cant afford it we have deficties on a boom and most civil servants dotn have that much work)

20%^ on benifets - Im not talking about disabled people and carer or the elderly! there are so many peole who could work and dont , tey claim benifets and lay about!

shopping i s culture here a huge part of our economy is retail

and hair dressers and restaurants!

aslo we have a huge reliance on finacials services!

manufactering is the backbone of an economy!

 

[MikeH]

There are some interesting points raised/discussed. But the VAT reduction is blinking stupid. It will make very little difference. Anyone with a middle/higher income will be budgeting sensibly to either clear debts, plan ahead or simply be more frugal with their money.

Surely it would have been better to assist lower income families. More money in their pocket will go back into the economy, not into their bank accounts.

 

[artona]

Plans to raise national insurance is an attack on jobs. It will force up council taxes/business rates as town halls pass the extra employment costs on to the taxpayer. It will hit business growth. Employers who have survived the downtown will face additional costs.

The timing of the increase will coincide with plans to introduce a new compulsory pension contribution where the employee contributes 4% of their earnings, the employer 3% and the government a measly 1%. How will they be able to introduce this new scheme only months after a rise in national insurance contributions? There will be uproar.

It will come months after coal fired power stations are decommissioned due to EU agreements on reducing emissions, but before the new nuclear power stations are in place to replace output. Look out for hysterical headlines on a so-called energy crunch after the next election.

Barack Obama says he will concentrate on job creation. Why can't we do the same? Greater job security = greater spending. Increased national insurance is a bad move. It should be lowered.

Why is a Labour government allowing energy companies to charge a premium to low income families for using pre-payment meters? Legislate against this outrage and the poor will have more money to spend.

Very rural areas have high levels of unseen poverty. How about a campaign for lower business rates if you run a food store or a post office in any area that has a parish council?

(Not Artona, but his missus. Who ought to be far too busy to sit on this internet all day. How do the rest of you manage the time to post here?)

 

[bringiton]

I personally think the VAT rate changes are going to hurt the economy.

• First of all the costs of the change, to accounting systems, tills, stationary, standing orders etc etc are going to be an administrative headache.
• For businesses that deal purely B2B the effect of these changes is neutral, so they will just have to bear the cost of the change without seeing any benefit.
• For anyone on the flat rate scheme, they will generally see a decrease in profits, even though the flat rate percentages have been dropped (depending on expenditure vs income)
• For small retailers, a lot of pricing is [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']psychological [/FONT]- will goods at 9.99 be changed to 9.78 to reflect this change or will they pocket the difference?
• Large retailers are very price competitive and will probably pass the difference onto the consumer. This will probably increase the benefits of shopping at these stores versus the small retailers and offset any differences in profits from the above point.

Accountants on the other hand, must be rubbing their hands in glee!

There must have been much better solutions for kickstarting the economy.

 

[aaamusements]

Indeed - I am off to the pound store to see how the change has affected prices there!

 

[RLD Plastering and Tiling Services]

Personally i don't think the cut in vat will help, the company i currently work for has just instructed the workforce that from January the 1st 2009 they will have to take a 3.5% paycut to try and stave off redundancies (which won't stop redundancies just means they will be self financing the redundancy in the long run) what with the loss of thier overtime they struggle to live now plus they are likely to be layed off for 3 weeks at £20 per day a loss of nearly £200 per week. Most of our customers and suppliers are already on 4 day weeks or extended shutdowns over Xmas so i can't see these people rushing out to buy items worth a hubdred pounds to save £2.50.
However i went to a shopping centre today one of those out of town places and struggled to get a parking space (the complex has over 1000 spaces) and have asked myself all day has anybody told these people there is a recession and wait until Monday and things will be cheaper because the amount of people shopping today you wouldn't have thought so!

 

[oldeagleeye]

Steve. You ought to be a politician. People don't look at the treasury accounts. It is a 2.17% cut on the retail price. About £8 quid off the price of a Blackberry or iphone. A pittance off the price of most domestic appliances. Who bloody cares and do the government really believe that we are all going out this Christmas to get the economy going again by spending £12,5 BILLION pounds on new washing machines. Yea right. The government takes us for fools and we are.

Not one senior bank has been sacked over the banking fiasco. Not one has taken a drop in salary and who allowed all this to happen in the first place - Gordon Brown. What was it Clinton said. "Watch my lips. I did not have sex with monica. I was just smoking a cigar with my zip undone and can't remember what happened". Almost as good as the " we will never - never ever get into boom and bust again" we have had from Gordon Brown for 12 years. The fact is the man couldn't be trusted to manage the savings in old granny's tea caddy in Scotland.

The fact is that over 40% of that recovery fund has been wasted with this VAT dodge. The fact is that personal allowances have been cut where they should have been increased. The fact is that almost every small business will end up paying more tax next year while the really fat cats can live here and not pay any taxes at all and yes - even the football teams they buy are a tax write off.

Now then buddy. Please do PM me with your address in the USA. That is if you wouldn't mind me sending you the money to buy a few cartons of cigarettes in your local shopping mall where they are less than half the price than they are over there. WHY - taxes. How about a couple of cases of Californian wine and half a Texas cow too. Quite a bit of money saving there. WHY - more tax increases over here yet again and EU subsidies.

As for those roads the government are going to build. Wow. Yet more taxes from speed cameras and probably tolls too. I repeat you don't know how lucky you are in the USA but put the big calculator away. You live in a land where a single dollar note still has some value. Over here nothing worth less that some $8 dollars on paper is even worth printing and what will a £5 note buy anyway. Not even a gallon of petrol but who cares. Some 80% of the retail price goes in yet more taxes.

 

[LINGsCARS]

Jeez,

In China EVERY denomination of currency has a paper note.

Measuring worth by whether there is a paper note is a bit daft. But it sounds good

Also in China, direct taxation is low. They even give the public many more bank holidays than in the UK, in order to stimulate people going out and spending. Saving is a big problem in China, unlike the UK! Seems you can't win

Do you have a passport, oldeagleeye? There is nothing stopping you putting your disappointment into practice and finding a sunnier place...

 

[matt.chatterley]

Jeez,

In China EVERY denomination of currency has a paper note.

Measuring worth by whether there is a paper note is a bit daft. But it sounds good

Then again, most of economics, politics and the like is, putting it mildly, 'a bit daft'!

Have to say that I understand where EagleEye is coming from, even if I don't agree with everything above. It does seem the 'working masses' in the UK get absolutely hammered by tax (from almost every possible angle), while those above and below the thresholds are sitting pretty.

Oh well.

I think what really gets my goat is the number of young people, who you talk to who just shrug and mumble "dunnodontreallycare" type statements when asked about future careers - when I was a kid, pretty much everyone knew what they wanted to do.

Sure. Not all of 'em grew up to do it - but that isn't the point, it's about drive and direction, which I think we've lost somewhere along the way.

 

[LINGsCARS]

Then again, most of economics, politics and the like is, putting it mildly, 'a bit daft'!

Have to say that I understand where EagleEye is coming from, even if I don't agree with everything above. It does seem the 'working masses' in the UK get absolutely hammered by tax (from almost every possible angle), while those above and below the thresholds are sitting pretty.

Oh well.

I think what really gets my goat is the number of young people, who you talk to who just shrug and mumble "dunnodontreallycare" type statements when asked about future careers - when I was a kid, pretty much everyone knew what they wanted to do.

Sure. Not all of 'em grew up to do it - but that isn't the point, it's about drive and direction, which I think we've lost somewhere along the way.

Yes, but unlike USA and China, you do not spend your life worrying desperately if you or your family will get ill, being on the streets if made jobless, or being forced to appear patriotic.

Also, a sense of humour is more helpful here, the other places are far too sensible.

For these 3 things, and for the laugh, the UK is best.

 

[matt.chatterley]

Yes, but unlike USA and China, you do not spend your life worrying desperately if you or your family will get ill, being on the streets if made jobless, or being forced to appear patriotic.

Also, a sense of humour is more helpful here, the other places are far too sensible.

For these 3 things, and for the laugh, the UK is best.

True. Though if anything, you are more likely to get in trouble for _trying_ to be patrotic in the UK! What? Playing the national anthem? NOooooo!

And, well, no country with the english Royal family could avoid having a great sense of humour - its self defence.

 

[Moneyman]

I like the royal family it stops having to vote for someone to spend money on and it anoys the french etc.
We should avoid letting the general public vote on anything. "ooh Brown is the man to help us in a crisis" I suggest going to shopping centres and doing a survey on voting intentions. If you say you are satisfied with current shower someone pops you off on the way home. Too stupid to be useful to society.

In times of crisis have a cull.