Eco Business - A Separate Forum Section?

Should UKBF have a Category for Eco/Ethical Business Threads?

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 51.8%
  • No

    Votes: 28 33.7%
  • Not Fussed Either Way

    Votes: 12 14.5%

  • Total voters
    83
  • Linking up with likeminded businesses
  • Finding green suppliers more quickly by sharing information - does anyone know of a source for smart recycled gift packaging - please???
  • Getting feedback on using green energy in your business
  • Discussion on finding fairtrade suppliers - my experience is that it is very difficult
  • Green directories - who's in what?
  • Ethical and environmental policies - can we share?
  • Who uses which networks?
  • Charitable donations - do you donate? How do you do it? Through a business alliance like me? Or something you organise yourself?
As these subjects are niche, posts on topics like this just get lost in my experience because of the speed of the posting on the forums. They aren't just related to those of us on here who are are running an ethical business either.

I'm not a franchisor but it doesn't bother me that we have a franchise section...

Why not try it and see how it goes? What harm can it possibly do? :D


You've summed it up well. It can be such a struggle to find information relevant to eco/ethical businesses.

PS: Anyone wants to make contact with me on the ethical/fair trade side of things feel free to, its great to find people like minded. :)
 
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Seems especially that what we have is three or four people at most that have cared to comment very strongly, and in no uncertain terms that they do not want this and seem too, hell bent on stuffing their opinions and derogatory views on the rest of us, that think it's a jolly good idea.
One of your supporters asked me politely why I was against the idea, so I took the time to respond politely and objectively to that post. As a result, along comes stinging criticism. If you don't want to hear the opinions of those with differing views, don't ask!

Indeed, this points out very clearly the danger I see in this. The new forum could quickly become rather doctrinaire and intolerant of anyone who expresses a different opinion. While I'm just one opinion among hundreds, I'm very much against splintering these forums in such a way.

At this point, given the level of intolerance that is emerging, I'm stepping out of this thread (good riddance, I hear you cry. ;)). It seems that supporters of this initiative want only to hear echoes of their own voices.
 
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I am with Steve on this, that has been my feeling for a couple of days now. I have wanted to add my thoughts to this thread, in fact have typed several times and then not posted due to the level of intolerance directed at anyone with a differing opinion. This might also have something to do with why so few of the No voters have actually made public their thoughts.

Please lets hear everyones point of view, for and against, after all this is a poll and at the moment it is neck and neck
 
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One of your supporters asked me politely why I was against the idea, so I took the time to respond politely and objectively to that post. As a result, along comes stinging criticism. If you don't want to hear the opinions of those with differing views, don't ask!

Indeed, this points out very clearly the danger I see in this. The new forum could quickly become rather doctrinaire and intolerant of anyone who expresses a different opinion. While I'm just one opinion among hundreds, I'm very much against splintering these forums in such a way.

At this point, given the level of intolerance that is emerging, I'm stepping out of this thread (good riddance, I hear you cry. ;)). It seems that supporters of this initiative want only to hear echoes of their own voices.


Not at all Steve don't go you always make a valuable contribution to any debate as per the comments in this post quoted above:)

Earl
 
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Mmmm how to bring people around to your way of thinking -NOT!

Perhaps instead of insulting the OP you should realise that perhaps its his concerns that need addressing rather than insulting him??

And I am not convinced that a WHOLE section (heck can that possibly mean that a sub-section would suffice, using the word whole??) is warranted, as I read new posts on here not just certain sections, and to date (and yes perhaps this would change if people saw others doing it) I have not noticed a massive input in this, although as I said, perhaps this would increase if others saw it happening.

Oh yes, and most of us don't have chelsea tractors and are not townies either and never have been .... we are merely wary of the other forum sections becoming dilluted and possibly giving the mods extra work moving things from one section to the other.

You've obviously read my comments entirely the wrong way, I mean, do I really have to put smilies on the end of all my posts for you and everyone else to understand that often, I communicate, tongue in cheek, with a great big smile on my face?

If you find that insulting, please do go back and read other comments from your friends, for they too, if you really think about it, could be construed, taken in exactly the same way.

What's wrong with speaking your mind about issues you really care about?

All this baloney about sterile posting communication, taking out the individuality is another thing that gets up my nose.

We're all grown ups, I'm sure your mates can take a bit of leg pulling on these issues along with the underlying seriousness of the bantering remarks.

Get a thicker skin, please do.:rolleyes::)

Blimey.:D
 
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What's wrong with speaking your mind about issues you really care about?
Nothing at all! Having a fire in your belly about something like this is admirable. Plus, I've been guilty many times of getting carried away with my rhetoric, so no offense taken.

Still, I suggest we discuss the pros and cons objectively and be willing to address concerns of others. In that way, maybe you can win everyone over to your view. I documented four issues with which I have concerns, and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on them.
 
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One of your supporters asked me politely why I was against the idea, so I took the time to respond politely and objectively to that post. As a result, along comes stinging criticism. If you don't want to hear the opinions of those with differing views, don't ask!

Indeed, this points out very clearly the danger I see in this. The new forum could quickly become rather doctrinaire and intolerant of anyone who expresses a different opinion. While I'm just one opinion among hundreds, I'm very much against splintering these forums in such a way.

At this point, given the level of intolerance that is emerging, I'm stepping out of this thread (good riddance, I hear you cry. ;)). It seems that supporters of this initiative want only to hear echoes of their own voices.

Don't be so daft. If you think that is stinging criticism, wait until I really warm up when I do get truly annoyed. You havn't ever seen that and I doubt you or anyone here, ever will, that's reserved for one or two very outspoken religious forums I post on now and again, where there exists a lot of bigotry etc.

Of course you are welcome in this thread, I would be the last one to want to drive you away. However, if I may say so, hmmmmmmm how to put this, so you don't get the wrong end of the stick, I'm struggling here, ok, I'm just going to write as I think, typical saggyhairyarse.

I might be wrong, but I seem to remember you were in this thread before me, and I don't personally remember asking you directly, if you had an opinion on a matter directly, though I could be wrong.

To be honest, this hmmmmm get out clause on this thread / reply above, seems to me to be a bit of a cheap way of backing out of the discussion with just a lil bit of projection going on to boot.

Earlier, I found one or two of your remarks particularly cutting, insulting even, but I wasn't going to convey that same attitude back at you, no, I'd much rather have kept a good strongwilled banter going on upon the subject, although obviously you are reading my comments way too seriously. I mean, the post in question, did start with the word piffle for petes sake. Surely from that much you could gather that the contents therein, were not stinging criticism as you have translated in your own mind? Hmmmmm, most odd.

Then you go on to point out yet again, that this is exactly why you think there is a danger in this etc.

Pardon me, but where on earth is this psychology coming from?

The association we have now is that a green business section is somehow, cultic, brainwashing even, something undesirable, dangerous by association, an underground movement - what a load of bumkum, you sound, convey yourself to me in a very paranoid manner, perhaps still reeling, I don't know, from someone elses previous remark, which you too took great umbrage at, read the wrong way, an insinuation that was not there, that somehow you felt as though what was being implied, was that your business was less ethical than a green business and I sensed then, that that got your back up.

For that reason, you've rallied against this idea wholeheartedly against all the other good people who would love to have this on the forum here.

I just can't understand your combined points why you should be so vehemently against such a thing.

If you don't like it, want it, that's completely cool with us, you don't need to post in there, if you do not want to, or have no interest in the subject, it's no skin off my back. But why put your foot down so readily, if you think already that such a thing wouldn't work? Why not just allow us others to have our own say and to have our voices heard for want of what we consider to be, a very good place for our combined needs?

Do you think all of us are somehow going to disappear into that part of the forum and not post elsewhere? Such a notion is preposterous.

It's just one more small part of the overall theme of what UKBF is all about, that's all, nothing more and nothing less. All this getting hett up, sweating the smallest of details, is just completely and utterly daft.

Maruby made some very valid points, those are just the sort of things we would like to access all in one place, that is all.

Crikey, what's the big issue here?

More annoyed with you that you've just taken up my entire lunchtime and my cup of tea has now gone cold.:D

Daft scallywags.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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I'm not looking to win everyone over to my view, what the dickens would I want that for?

I love the individuality and creativity of all of us, that is something to be celebrated, not me converting you one way or the other.

Look, I was forced to knock peoples doors peddling the blinkin jw's all through my childhood, load of claptrap, do you honestly think I enjoyed being forced to foist my opinion on others back then?

If there is one thing most ex's hate more than anything else, it is preachers of this, that, or the other. Can't stand it. It can kiss my cornish wotsit.

*****

Mebyon Kernow - Long Live Cornwall!!:D
 
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To be honest, this hmmmmm get out clause on this thread / reply above, seems to me to be a bit of a cheap way of backing out of the discussion with just a lil bit of projection going on to boot.
If we all agree to a certain level of civility, sure.

obviously you are reading my comments way too seriously."
Do you really think I'm "hell bent on stuffing their opinions and derogatory views on the rest of us"? Personally, I don't think I've done this at all. I've simply pointed out reasons why I have concerns. That doesn't make me, by implication, a rampant critic of everything you stand for. I'm beginning to realise that, in the great Celtic tradition, you are using hyperbole and graphic analogy to make your point. Beware because the same blood runs in my veins. ;)

an insinuation that was not there, that somehow you felt as though what was being implied, was that your business was less ethical than a green business and I sensed then, that that got your back up.
In more than one post in this thread, writers made the point that green businesses are more ethical businesses. I dispute this point and, yes, it's a little demeaning to those working in other areas. Let's not use a 'holier than thou' approach to justifying green business.

For that reason, you've rallied against this idea wholeheartedly against all the other good people who would love to have this on the forum here.
Not at all. I'm asking that you address seriously the four problems I have with a separate forum. You'd go a long way to bolstering your case by doing that. I'm sure I'm not alone in having those concerns. And I don't think I'm being 'vehement' at all - just expressing some concerns.

If you don't like it, want it, that's completely cool with us, you don't need to post in there, if you do not want to, or have no interest in the subject, it's no skin off my back.
There's no 'us' and 'them' about it. If there are forums here, everyone should feel welcome and interested in each one; otherwise, they shouldn't exist.

I respect and admire your passion, but I'm trying to see the bigger picture. While I'm travelling a lot today, I'll check back in later to see how you answer the objections I noted in a previous message.
 
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I'm not looking to win everyone over to my view, what the dickens would I want that for?
I thought you wanted to introduce a separate green forum? For this to happen (and I'm guessing how the UKBF owners decide such things), you need to win people over to your idea. That's the dickens. :)

Believe it or not, I'm trying to help you make your case.
 
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Paola

Free Member
Oct 22, 2007
66
5
Edinburgh
Man, i'm so annoyed just typed out a reply there only to lose it as I wasn't logged in...anyways i digrees...i'm pro. a new ethical/eco business thread as I count myself as one of those (I represent Designers on the Run, a full service eco-friendly design studio) and would find it useful having dialogue, feedback, advice etc. with like-minded people and business.

I don't however want in anyway to alienate those who may not have the same agenda but I do feel that ethical/eco business does merit its own section as it is a veritable and very important issue and as important as finance, offers, introductions and other threads you have here.

I would like to think that by having this new thread it may encourage others to think green and start taking these issues seriously and if there is good dialogue on there it will be beneficial for all of us and not just us greenies :)
 
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Me, I'm enjoying a lovely cup of tea. This can wait until later. I'll make room for other opinions.

'In the great Celtic tradition' that is making me laugh so much I can hardly hit the right keys on the keyboard.:D

Laters Steve, drive safely, take care.:)

Damn it. I was just wondering where my digestive biscuits were, then realised I had sat on the darn things, bunch of crumbs now, perfectly useless to dunk in my tea, it's all your fault.:mad::D
 
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Is there a cut off time for the poll?

I hope so as this thread is in danger of getting just a little bit silly.

Lets get a little perspective, we are debating on whether or not there is another link to some text of peoples thoughts, thats all. is it just me or is it getting a little too serious in here!

think of all those carbon footprint thingys that have been trodden all over the place while we all waste countless electrons through our computers debating this!

lets get the owners input, then either do it or dont do it!

simple. :D

Andy.
 
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Man, i'm so annoyed just typed out a reply there only to lose it as I wasn't logged in...anyways i digrees...i'm pro. a new ethical/eco business thread as I count myself as one of those (I represent Designers on the Run, a full service eco-friendly design studio) and would find it useful having dialogue, feedback, advice etc. with like-minded people and business.

I don't however want in anyway to alienate those who may not have the same agenda but I do feel that ethical/eco business does merit its own section as it is a veritable and very important issue and as important as finance, offers, introductions and other threads you have here.

I would like to think that by having this new thread it may encourage others to think green and start taking these issues seriously and if there is good dialogue on there it will be beneficial for all of us and not just us greenies :)

Hello Paola - welcome to the forums (and thanks for being brave enough to post! It's getting a bit rough in here ;) )
 
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Hi Alison, thanks for your warm welcome! I guess it's still a contentious issue a bit like politics, religion and football! (but looks like the votes are in our favour...)
Aha - but you don't know the rules. You get one vote for every post you've ever made to UKBF - so you're screwed. :)

Seriously, though, I doubt that the owners will make a decision based on the number of people voting in a poll - especially when only about 0.00001% of members have voted. As before, I strongly suggest you address objections to this course of action rather than recruit new members to vote. It would help your case immensely.
 
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M

michelle @ business smart

Hello Everyone

Well I have voted yes because I do not see what the problem is with even just trialing it for a while and seeing if it is something that takes off. I know there are not many threads on this topic right now but other businesses might join the forum as members if this part of the forum was made available. Why not even just trial it for a while?

Michelle x
 
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I'd rather continue debating the issues - and I'd rather goldctrsteve remained in the debate.

I'd also like to see a little more respect shown to all the contributors and their differing points of view :)

BTW - I'm not looking to create an extreme "Tree Hugging" Forum - just somewhere for all businesses to have the opportunity to consider the issues and ask questions.

And again I'd rather that happened here rather than on competing/emerging Forums.

What is a fact is that eco business is not going away - and neither are green issues and regulations affecting "normal" businesses

Hey - and it would draw in more new members and increase diversity. :)

Just to be certain - I want this to be a place for non-eco businesses to ask questions and consider issues that affect us all such as:

Weee Directives
Hazardous Waste Regs
Energy/taxation/green tariff benefits
Can I save money by adopting greener strategies?


and so on :)
 
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Aha - but you don't know the rules. You get one vote for every post you've ever made to UKBF - so you're screwed. :)

Seriously, though, I doubt that the owners will make a decision based on the number of people voting in a poll - especially when only about 0.00001% of members have voted. As before, I strongly suggest you address objections to this course of action rather than recruit new members to vote. It would help your case immensely.

If you don't watch it you young whippersnapper I'll send you a copy of me singing, 'Going Up Camborne Hill, Comin' Down', enough to give you ear ache for a month.:D
 
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asonda

Free Member
Jan 28, 2007
3,653
301
Cornwall
My God, I sang that song at Primary School.... What a small world.

Anyhow, You asked for us neh sayers to voice an opinion. So we did, and got abused... so :p

RayB, I understand what you are trying to do. In theory it could seem like a great idea. However, a lot of people around here have been complaining about people who come to the forum, post one question without searching, then bugger off. Well, I reckon you'll see the same emerge in a section like that, purely because generic people are going to come along, and say..how can I make my I.T Business Greener? How can I make my TV Sales company Greener? How can I make my Shoe Cleaning company Greener? So on and so fourth...

I don't think the forum owners will want a trial either down to the work that would be involved moving all the new threads back to relevant sections if they remove it.

Just my 2 pennies worth
 
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If you don't watch it you young whippersnapper I'll send you a copy of me singing, 'Going Up Camborne Hill, Comin' Down', enough to give you ear ache for a month.:D

Oi, i'll have you know there's nothing wrong with that song!

Going to a wedding tommorow, where the cadgwith singers will be.

Can't wait for a few real pints of beer and some decent sing song.

I am under 30 btw.
 
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RayB, I understand what you are trying to do. In theory it could seem like a great idea.
Why thank you!
However, a lot of people around here have been complaining about people who come to the forum, post one question without searching, then bugger off.
That is a fact that will not go away - it is a by product of having a successful forum - and as such irrelevant in regards to this debate - IMO
Well, I reckon you'll see the same emerge in a section like that, purely because generic people are going to come along, and say..how can I make my I.T Business Greener? How can I make my TV Sales company Greener? How can I make my Shoe Cleaning company Greener? So on and so fourth...
Bound to be an element of that - for reasons stated above - but the fact is there is a growing thirst for this information from both genuine business people as well the inevitable "time wasters".

Also - this thirst is from 2 angles - a) the growing number of small businesses that are setting up in the green arena and b) Normal businesses who simply want to do the right thing by considering the issues and adopting green policies where cost beneficial/neutral.

It is also a fact that for many businesses having an "environmental policy" is fast becoming a "must have" marketing tool in many sectors - and this will continue to grow.

Look at how big business is slated in the press for poor environmental mamagement - this will trickle down and become more the norm - FACT.

So - these are real and growing business issues affecting many (to a greater or lesser degree whether we like it or not) - and is NOT going away.

So again, if the debate is here to stay - have a home for it here - that is all.

We now have an SEO section - which only a fraction of UKBF members need (those in ecommerce in simple terms) - but I firmly supported this.

Green issues affect more of us than does SEO (again, whether we like it or not)

I don't think the forum owners will want a trial either down to the work that would be involved moving all the new threads back to relevant sections if they remove it.
I agree, it is either done or not - no middle ground really in that respect
 
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Darren Falkingham

Free Member
Jul 3, 2007
471
199
Bristol
Hi,

My view on this, as it was when we opened up the SEO forum recently, is this:- If there's enough discussion to warrant a new forum area, then we should have one.

The next decision is whether it is a top-level forum (like IT, Legal, etc), or the next level down, maybe under, say, General Business.

So far, it seems that 'Yes' is edging it! So, if it stays this way, where do you think the forum should sit? As a top level, or next level down?

Cheers,
Darren
 
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Hi Darren,

Thanks for stepping it with your views - it is appreciated.

If you do decide it is a goer it should only be a sub-section at this time - and yes of General Business (IMO).

Maybe one day this issue will be important enough to merit a top level section, but not at this time.

I suspect wherever it lives, it would open up a new audience and membership of the Forum

I just feel it should have a home here of some sort :)

Cheers

Ray

The next decision is whether it is a top-level forum (like IT, Legal, etc), or the next level down, maybe under, say, General Business.

So far, it seems that 'Yes' is edging it! So, if it stays this way, where do you think the forum should sit? As a top level, or next level down?

Cheers,
Darren
 
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Hi,

My view on this, as it was when we opened up the SEO forum recently, is this:- If there's enough discussion to warrant a new forum area, then we should have one.

The next decision is whether it is a top-level forum (like IT, Legal, etc), or the next level down, maybe under, say, General Business.

So far, it seems that 'Yes' is edging it! So, if it stays this way, where do you think the forum should sit? As a top level, or next level down?

Cheers,
Darren

I would say under general business.

Thank you so much for taking the time to review this.
 
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goldctrsteve, as I said earlier, I would rather you were in the debate, I wanted to come back on your earlier post, but it was in depth, so needed some quiet time to do so:

If we set up a green forum, it is likely to be frequented by green proponents with similar views, to become a club of sorts, and its usefulness will decline.
So no different from the SEO or Franchising section at first glance (which only applies to some Forum Members) - until it sinks in that green issues touch EVERY business and household - whether we like it or not - well in the UK/Europe more than the USA
A green forum is likely to be frequented more by green proponents - and maybe avoided by others. That means you dilute your message. Instead of reaching a wider audience, you'll reach a smaller audience. Even if you post a message in the general area, there's a good chance the mods will move it to the green area - which happens a lot with other sub-forums.
Read my examples of links to green and associated threads from this week alone (including the Al Gore one) - they are already there - just getting buried under the general traffic
Why limit it to a green forum? Look at some larger contributors to the economy: international business, for example. What about the person who started a thread about the gay community? Wouldn't that make UKBF a leading light too? Or pet owners? That's really big business and growing.
See above answer regarding SEO and Franchising section - dont see you campaigning to remove them for the same reasons?
Someone else suggested a forum for matters of ethics - great idea! That topic comes up more than green matters. Why green?
Great - agreed - ethics and "green" could be rolled up into one area - brilliant idea
What's to stop it becoming a clique? Would I be banned from your little area if I post a message there stating that Al Gore is a fraud?
The Al Gore thread would be an ideal candidate for the new section, as stated above
Would you have your own set of rules so that only those who are qualified as green or who express environmentally friendly messages can post there? Other categories today are truly apolitical; a green forum is likely to be very political. You'd have the Young Conservatives wanting their own section too.
Now that is daft - read the thread again - who proposed a forum for "green extremeists"?
I must apologise for my sour reaction to some earlier messages in the thread. It's just that I get fed up with green companies pretending to be more ethical and trying to be 'holier than thou'.
I agree - It is called "Greenwash" and it is sickening - lets have a place to debate it and sort the wheat from the chaff.
Let me change my vote from 'No' to 'Not fussed either way'. Let's see what the UKBF owners think.
Thats the spirit :)

PS - Steve - The US of A is miles behind the UK/EU on these issues - that may have a bearing on your outlook too?

PPS Steve - at the time of posting over 1800 views and 190 posts in a little over 48 hours - niche subject?
 
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Yes Darren, many thanks, it is appreciated.

Near 30 individuals so far obviously have a positive desire for this and would love to see this section working for the overall positive benefit of everyone that read there - this number I think could only grow.

From small acorns ....

Too, the increase in traffic I think would be rather good for everyone.

Not seen one real really good argument yet, for why it should not happen, certainly I believe the positives way outweigh any potential negatives.
 
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Lets keep the debate civilised and repect all views - no point in having barneys :D

Well, I for one would too prefer not to see some of the previous absurd notions put forth against this debate. Yes, I'm outspoken, rude though, I have not been.

This isn't kindergarten, I'm sure people can take a strong willed argument, point or two. Just attend any planning application meeting that is causing a lot of community angst.

Just because strong opinions are put forward, doesn't mean that people are being rude or aggressive or whatever else.

Just don't understand why some guys seem to be so against this, seems utterly daft to me.
 
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Well, I for one would too prefer not to see some of the previous absurd notions put forth against this debate. Yes, I'm outspoken, rude though, I have not been.

Groovy - I agree - hence I have endeavoured to answer each point in turn - even the ones I think are daft ;)

The point is - some people will raise genuine concerns, and others will say stuff some of us will think of as daft - either way, lets have a debate and respect everybodies views (and accept that sometimes the "other side" of the debate might have a valid point) :)
 
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