Is Tea and Cake An Acceptable Business Expense?

Foresty_Forest

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My wife is a sole trader and rents a workshop. If she buys a coffee and a biscuit/cake during her working day, can she claim that is sustenance for her accounts? Same if she buys a lunch?
Would she need receipts (she hasn't any)? Or could she calculate a reasonable amount - five days/week 48 weeks/year for example?
 

Newchodge

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    No. That is not an expense incurred solely on behalf of the business. The only time a sole trader could claim tea and cake as a business expense would be if they sold tea and cake.
     
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    neilsolaris

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    Based on my understanding, the tax treatment of food and drink expenses as a business deduction is subject to specific circumstances, which do not apply in your wife's case. Essentially, for such expenses to be deductible, they must be incurred wholly and exclusively for the purpose of the business. Given that eating is a necessity for sustaining life, it typically doesn't meet this criteria.

    However, there are two exceptions I'm aware of. Firstly, if the expense is incurred in conjunction with an overnight stay for business purposes, you may be able to claim a reasonable cost for an evening meal and breakfast.

    The second exception applies if your work is of an itinerant nature.
     
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    I'd suggest that for own consumption, the answer is a flat no.

    The grey areas revolve around business travel & meetings.

    My former business partner - also an accountant - claimed every meal / drink with customers / business contacts under he banner of 'meeting'

    I've no idea if he was right, but he's dead now & never got pulled up on it.
     
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    Frank the Insurance guy

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    As I understand it, it is an allowable expense if it is incurred when travelling for business (classed as subsistence).

    However as there is no travel involved, then you cannot claim.
     
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    WaveJumper

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    I think maybe there's a slim chance depending on how long your garden is, but then again what "distance" counts as travel, also what about if she takes her sleeping bag and "stays over" would that be classed as 'staying away" ......guess not if its still in your own garden, well that me done exploring all the loop holes 😁😁😁
     
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    JEREMY HAWKE

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    Quite honestly their are far more things she could be concentrating on than getting a few bob for cakes, think a better use of her time would be getting mere profitable jobs or better marketing and so on
    Absofeckinlutly
    How the hell are you are you going to build and develop a successful business if your only worried about a cake!
     
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    neilsolaris

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    Absofeckinlutly
    How the hell are you are you going to build and develop a successful business if your only worried about a cake!
    Where does it say that this is their only concern? We could answer every single thread on this forum with "why are you only worried about this?!". But I guess it makes a refreshing change to "what did your accountant advise?".
     
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    JEREMY HAWKE

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    Where does it say that this is their only concern? We could answer every single thread on this forum with "why are you only worried about this?!". But I guess it makes a refreshing change to "what did your accountant advise?".
    That's bollocks

    I have been in business all my life and to be very honest with you I aim to get a big building abroad in the next few years with what this business has helped to provide

    We dont achieve these objectives concerning ourselves over small things This is a business forum and if I am joining in with the others to help someone I really would want them to realise a big profit and not talk about the desperations of claiming the tax on a cup cake from the revenue
     
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    neilsolaris

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    That's bollocks

    I have been in business all my life and to be very honest with you I aim to get a big building abroad in the next few years with what this business has helped to provide

    We dont achieve these objectives concerning ourselves over small things This is a business forum and if I am joining in with the others to help someone I really would want them to realise a big profit and not talk about the desperations of claiming the tax on a cup cake from the revenue
    While I respect your perspective, objectively speaking, the information I provided in my last post is factually accurate. The concept of materiality is key here; in a larger business context, minor details may carry less weight, whereas in a smaller or emerging business, even modest savings can be significant. Additionally, individuals in the early stages of entrepreneurship may possess limited knowledge. It's important to acknowledge that everyone is entitled to ask questions in this forum, regardless of how tangential they may seem. Each query contributes to a diverse and inclusive discussion.
     
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    JEREMY HAWKE

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    While I respect your perspective, objectively speaking, the information I provided in my last post is factually accurate. The concept of materiality is key here; in a larger business context, minor details may carry less weight, whereas in a smaller or emerging business, even modest savings can be significant. Additionally, individuals in the early stages of entrepreneurship may possess limited knowledge. It's important to acknowledge that everyone is entitled to ask questions in this forum, regardless of how tangential they may seem. Each query contributes to a diverse and inclusive discussion.
    That's even worse if your learning about your start up You dont have time to be learning about claiming for a cake.

    I have had enough of it now I'm phoning the Inland Revenue to see what money I can get back me Mars Bar
     
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    MyAccountantOnline

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    MyAccountantOnline

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    What about meeting a contact in a cafe to discuss business? You have to buy a coffee or get slung out.

    If it's for clients, customers or suppliers it'll be treated as entertaining costs which aren't allowable for tax purposes.
     
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    MyAccountantOnline

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    My understanding is that would qualify as a business expense, but not a tax allowable expense.

    ...
    Food and drink for the sole trader may be allowable.

    Copied from

    BIM47705 - Specific deductions - travel and subsistence: expenditure on meals and accommodation

    A deduction is, however, allowable for reasonable expenses on food and drink for consumption by the trader either at a place to which the trader travels in the course of the trade or while travelling in the course of the trade, if certain conditions are satisfied.

    A deduction must be allowable for the cost of travelling to the place, or would be if the trader incurred any such costs, and either:

    • the trade is an itinerant trade at the time the expenses are incurred; or
    • the trader does not travel to the place more than occasionally in the course of the trade and either:
      • the travel concerned is not part of the trader’s normal pattern of travel in the course of the trade; or
      • the trader does not have such a normal pattern of travel.
     
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    neilsolaris

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    Food and drink for the sole trader may be allowable.

    Copied from

    BIM47705 - Specific deductions - travel and subsistence: expenditure on meals and accommodation

    A deduction is, however, allowable for reasonable expenses on food and drink for consumption by the trader either at a place to which the trader travels in the course of the trade or while travelling in the course of the trade, if certain conditions are satisfied.

    A deduction must be allowable for the cost of travelling to the place, or would be if the trader incurred any such costs, and either:


    • the trade is an itinerant trade at the time the expenses are incurred; or
    • the trader does not travel to the place more than occasionally in the course of the trade and either:
      • the travel concerned is not part of the trader’s normal pattern of travel in the course of the trade; or
      • the trader does not have such a normal pattern of travel.
    I was replying to post #20, in relation to entertaining costs. I agreed with you that it isn't a taxable expense. But I thought it would be allowable as a business expenses nonetheless.
     
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    MyAccountantOnline

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    I was replying to post #20, in relation to entertaining costs. ...

    So was I - the sole trader may be able to claim the cost of food and drink in the cafe for him/herself.
     
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    MyAccountantOnline

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    paulears

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    During pantomime, my petty cash account has the most odd things in it - all legitimate business expenses. Hundreds of pounds of vodka, ladies pants, and amazon bizarre orders by the bucketload. Like 2000 fake diamonds, or 60 pizzas on boxing day. Genuine stuff. It's the context that legitimises it.
     
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    Gyumri

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    paulears

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    Exactly! It looks like entertainment, but is actually the entertainment business. The vodka is used in copious amounts to get rid of BO. Some costumes can be washed, but some cannot be. A few can get dry cleaned, but time often makes it impossible. So you use fabreeze, but after a while it wont work, so you put vodka in a garden spray bottle and it kills the smell pretty well. On boxing day staff cannot eat, everywhere is closed, so the company feed them, and ladies pants are costumes. They even have them washed for them. They're collected after every show. In my case, even tested by HMRC, who asked me all these questions, and were perfectly happy once they got it.
     
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    Gyumri

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    I think we've strayed from the OP's original query:

    My wife is a sole trader and rents a workshop. If she buys a coffee and a biscuit/cake during her working day, can she claim that is sustenance for her accounts? Same if she buys a lunch?
    It's a fair question for somebody who hasn't been in business for long but unless the OP's wife was appearing in a pantomime during her lunch break unrelated to her normal place of work then the answer would be no - she cannot claim the costs of such sustenance as a business expense.
     
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    paulears

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    I think we've strayed from the OP's original query:


    It's a fair question for somebody who hasn't been in business for long but unless the OP's wife was appearing in a pantomime during her lunch break unrelated to her normal place of work then the answer would be no - she cannot claim the costs of such sustenance as a business expense.
     
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    JEREMY HAWKE

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    Well I wonder if they going to mention this in dispatches when they send out all the emails and promote the site
    We spent all week talking about a feckin cup cake
     
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